How is your first campaign going?

[Zarky]

Won the game as the Tokugawa, summer of 1598. I have much to learn with this game; looking forward to some good reality-based mods.

I thought that the arts took too long to accumulate; I didn't even get to the point where I had Teppo Ashigaru. All in all, it was a very challenging campaign, even on N/N. We are pleased.

Did you try to get them, or just research everything in order? Aside from my 1st Mori campaign, I haven't had much trouble with arts research because I've concentrated on getting to philosophical traditions, though I should prioritize more in the future, like choosing between spear+siege+gunpowder path or sword+bow+horse path.

[Naughtius Maximus]

@Zarky - thanks for asking the question; I concentrated on chi arts @ first because some of them confer a research bonus to begin with; there is also the chronic food shortage I had to deal with before I could expand.

[LeftEyeNine]

Along with a question looking for your valuable input, here it is.

[Monk]

First true stab at a campaign was with the Hojo on H/N, after a few experiments with Oda and Date to get my TW sense back. (Note: I was bouncing back and forth between Hard and Normal battle difficulty trying to get a sense for how the differences play out. So far.. i haven't noticed much of one. At least in terms of decision making.)

Started out securing alliances with both Takeda and Imagawa to lock down my western borders while I dealt with the Ogigayatsu. With money rolling in from trade and a steady stream of recruits it wasn't hard to knock them out, but when I secured their last province (putting me to 3) i realized just how large my 'ally' Takeda was getting. He was already up to 4 provinces and was threatening war with the Uesugi. I'd need some support. The Satomi clan who were my trade partners, decided to make them vassals of the growing Hojo clan, only one problem. When i declared war upon them the Ashina, the Satomi's number one trade partners and the real power in eastern honsu, declared war right back.

The Ashina already held 5 provinces and had the muscle to back it up. Worse yet, even though I secured aid from the Takeda, Takeda Shingen was apparently in the midsts of one of his legendary fueds with Uesugi Kenshin, as Echigo was changing hands back and forth at rapid pace. I'd be going it alone. Thankfully I had a decent 3-star general who spear-headed the attack into Shimosa province. After an entire year's worth of maneuvering and battles I was eventually repulsed back to Musashi. The Ashina and Satomi pressed their advantage at the Battle of Edo in 1548. My general however proved the deciding factor and won the day with a rallying charge at the 11th hour. I was impressed and had my daimyo adopt him into the royal family. Hojo Ujitane, the hero of Edo. It took a year of rebuilding before my troops were ready to move out, back into Shimosa. This time I won easily, and after pushing further south I vassalized the Satomi. Though now I had a fairly big problem: Ashina. Even though i'd decimated their forces at Edo they were still the big dogs in east Honshu.

The Ashina campaign took a collected 4 years and 16 turns, providing back and forth fighting until I was able to get the upper hand near Tochigi, shimotsuke. The Ashina Daimyo fled north while I hunted down stragglers in my newly aquired province. During this time I also managed to head south to Hitachi, the town was left basically undefended thanks to the battles fought in the north and it was an easy victory. I didn't have the men to garrison the town effectively so I allowed the Satake to come back as my allies/vassals. I then marched north, however, my best general Hojo Ujitane had by now grown incredibly disloyal. 5 years of campaigning against the Ashina, taking orders from a far away lord who never ventured to the battlefield... he was growing restless. However I decided to let him have another chance. What a terrible decision.

At the Battle of Shimotseku fields in 1553, Hojo Ujitane betrayed his clan and joined the Ashina forces, taking with him fully half of the army. The veterans who had followed him through hell on the fields at Edo and Shimosa obviously feeling more loyalty to him than some far away Daimyo. They slaughtered my men and forced a route. Now I'm scrambling to muster a counter attack. It's doubtful I'll be able to save Shimotseku before Ashina Ujitane arrives. I'll likely force a confrontation on the bridge leading to Shimosa. A very fun campaign just got a whole lot more interesting...

[Splitpersonality]

Started as Shimazu, ended up using a system of alliances and trades with eastern clans, took over most of the west of Japan, and took a vassal of a clan right next to Kyoto. I'm sitting poised, attempting to scrounge up enough units/still be able to upkeep them, to be able to attack Kyoto. It's not looking good...

I'm about 50 turns or so in I believe...

[Zarky]

Last night I finished my first campaign! Long campaign Mori N/N.
Nearing the end I was mostly rushing provinces to actually get to 40, because at some places I was facing large enemy armies with no chances of achieving peace with anyone anymore.
I was setting up quite many vassals, which seemed a logical step after about 20 provinces owned. But much to my dismay I noticed that my longest time vassal (since turn 20 or so) which had a full stack of units many of which katana samurai attacked my other vassals in adjacent provinces (acquired within 10 turns of 1st vassals betrayal), so I had to scrape up an army and beat them.
None of my vassals previously had indicated any interest to betray me so I want to know what kind of experiences do other people have with vassals. Have they ever betrayed you? And I was surprised that they were able to declare war on each other, since I was under the impression vassal could only declare war on his master. So can they declare war on other people, or just other vassals under same master?

[A Nerd]

I had an odd thing happen in my current Shimazu campaign. I am at war with two clans on the island you start on. One red and one white, I cannot recall the names. That I can understand. But I was sending two ships to explore the rest of Japan to discover new clans so I could trade and the like with them. Along the way I discoverd Imagawa. A small clan of three provinces far east of me. My enemies are not allies with him, I don't think they trade with him and our only interaction is a small fleet that passed by their coast. A turn or two later, he declared war on me! We don't share borders or anything! I found that odd. Finances are low at the moment and I want to avoid as many conflicts as possible. Bizare. He has no fleets near my small 3 province holdings either. None of my two trade fleets were molested as well.

[LeftEyeNine]

Don't worry, Imagawa have a habit of drinking themselves up to the point where they can't decide why they were there despite outnumbering you 1 to 10.

^^

[A Nerd]

Don't worry, Imagawa have a habit of drinking themselves up to the point where they can't decide why they were there despite outnumbering you 1 to 10.

Dumb ol Imagawa! I think I will plan a naval invastion when I become stronger just to get revenge!

[Ashen]

Overconfident and beaten down as Chosokabe.

Started well by conquering my island - Then attacked Settsu and made the minor clan there a vessal. Really been using it as a test bed to figure out economy and the likes. Figured out how to boost my income up massively etc, then donated a load of money to the minor vessal clan - I think they were the Koto but don't quote me on that. Also had a 5 star ninja running about.

Was doing well when the Hattori declared on me, and they were based beside and north of Kyoto, so I attacked and did a lot of damage. Problem is now however that because my vessal clan went on a westward rampage taking out the Ouchi and Mori, the shoguns just managed to unite everyone except my vassals and the Shimazu (long term ally and trading partner) against me. The Hattori were my vessals in their last region but retook what they lost through sneak attacks when I was fighting the Tokugawa, so just down th my own island again :(

[LeftEyeNine]

Will it take time for us to figure out the flaws or the AI is quite challenging this time ?

[Monk]

Will it take time for us to figure out the flaws or the AI is quite challenging this time ?

I think the flaws of the Ai are pretty evident when they show up. One of them is that it's inconsistent, like i've said before. Sometimes it will throw away its cavalry on a suicide charge - other times it comes marching at you, rank and file, and it's pretty intimidating. Right now the AI isn't brilliant, but it's passable and provides a good challenge. If CA continues to fine-tune the AI post release maybe they can hammer out some of those oddities and make it even better. We'll have to see.

[Ituralde]

Just had my first AI glitches during a siege battle. After I repelled the initial waves of attackers the rest of the Takeda attackers just stood there. It was Naginata and Yari Samurai so they could have inflicted some damage on my Ashigaru centered garrison. I had run all out of arrows for my Archers too. But the enemy Damyo just hung back and his remaining troops let themselves be shot to pieces by my towers. Annoying.

Not that it's helping my campaign in any way though. I managed to defeat the Takeda, snuck by their main army into their last province of Kai. I also had my first Naval battles against Date where I successfully defended my trade spot with the Ainu. A Mogami army that was harrassing my main province was killed off, because the Date conquered their home province and I even pushed out and conquered Fukushima. That's when the Imagawa and the pretty numerous Tokugawa decided to attack me. Tokugawa snuck in through South Shinano and conquered North Shinano with ease! My newly adopted faction heir is besieged in Kai province and my Damyo had to leave Fukushima undefended to rush back to my mainland which is wide open to the Tokugawa troops in North Shinano. I'm 50 turns in now and convinced that I'll never make it to Shogun. I'll try to learn as much as I can during this playthrough though!

[Ashen]

Will it take time for us to figure out the flaws or the AI is quite challenging this time ?

Like Monk said, inconsistent but certainly better than it's been for a long time. No more armies turning rank and file to completely face away from you. I see the biggest difference in the campaign map more so than the battles. Siege AI still is a bit iffy though.

[Wozzle]

@Zarky or anyone who knows,

Do vassals count towards your province limit? So if I need 25 provinces to win and have 23 but 2 vassals is that enough?

[Zarky]

@Zarky or anyone who knows,

Do vassals count towards your province limit? So if I need 25 provinces to win and have 23 but 2 vassals is that enough?

Yes, I believe it's stated somewhere in game that vassals do count towards province limit and I've seen/had it work for me, they're good to make in some provinces just to get reliable trading partners late in game. I haven't tested if you can win if you make a vassal to a region you're supposed to own in order to win the campaign (like most neighboring provinces for any clan).
I'm just worried about vassal loyalty after Realm Divide.

[Lord Benihana]

I just got to the realm divide - I took Kyoto before the Shogun could call all of Japan to attack me... This triggers the realm divide anyway.

I really like how just as you start to roll (by taking Kyoto) the game gets really tough. I was making about $3K/turn with 2.5 armies roaming around and a couple extra food. Now I am pinned down Kyoto, have -1 food (damn citadel) only have 1 ally (I had 4 allies and 1 vassal prior ro realm divide), and am set to make $151 next turn, so there is no way to replenish.

Having a great time, but I am a little concerned that I will have a setback on my way to get all 60 provinces... The Imagawa-Tokagawa empire is huge in my game

[Monk]

First campaign just came to an abrupt end. As stated above I'd lost a large invasion force to betrayal, those who stayed loyal were slaughtered and the Ashina had mounted a counter attack to support my betraying general.

I scrapped together as many troops as I could and marched out to meet the Ashina. As predicted I was nowhere near in time to save Shimotseku and I mounted by defense on the bridge to Shimosa. Outnumbered 2 to 1 I held fast despite mounting casualties, but it just wasn't meant to be. In desperation the Hojo Daimyo charged against the oncoming Ashina forces, even as his men struggled to hold the line. In an epic clash he faced the traitor, Hojo Ujitane in single combat.. and was struck down. With the death of their lord, what few samurai who had managed to hold broke, as did the Ashigaru auxiliaries. It was a massacre.

The following season Imagawa and Takeda, having sworn to an alliance behind the Hojo's back declared war, crossing the border and pushing south toward Edo. With a dead daimyo, defenses in tatters and war on all fronts, it looks like the Hojo's quest for the Shoganate has come to an end...

I really love this game. With the character development and loyalty systems the narrative almost writes itself..

[Wozzle]

First campaign just came to an abrupt end. As stated above I'd lost a large invasion force to betrayal, those who stayed loyal were slaughtered and the Ashina had mounted a counter attack to support my betraying general.

I scrapped together as many troops as I could and marched out to meet the Ashina. As predicted I was nowhere near in time to save Shimotseku and I mounted by defense on the bridge to Shimosa. Outnumbered 2 to 1 I held fast despite mounting casualties, but it just wasn't meant to be. In desperation the Hojo Daimyo charged against the oncoming Ashina forces, even as his men struggled to hold the line. In an epic clash he faced the traitor, Hojo Ujitane in single combat.. and was struck down. With the death of their lord, what few samurai who had managed to hold broke, as did the Ashigaru auxiliaries. It was a massacre.

The following season Imagawa and Takeda, having sworn to an alliance behind the Hojo's back declared war, crossing the border and pushing south toward Edo. With a dead daimyo, defenses in tatters and war on all fronts, it looks like the Hojo's quest for the Shoganate has come to an end...

I really love this game. With the character development and loyalty systems the narrative almost writes itself..

I loved reading this, thank you.

Games that make their own stories are destined to be winners in my heart. Part of the reason Civ 4 is one of my all-time favourite games is because of all the stories it's written for me. I have on game in particular, that I played years ago at this point, that has always stuck with me because the story was just so excellent. I'm more than willing to let Shogun 2 into that little club of games.

Now off to continue my second campaign. Not sure I'll win it, but I'm having fun and am ready to, gasp, crank this sucker to H/H for my next campaign!

[Lemur]

Just made an epic mistake. After the realm divide, I wanted to pick at the edges of the massive alliance against me, so I ran around the diplomatic screen, tossing out gold and hostages to divide (and conquer). In the end I passed out ever under-ten member of my clan as a hostage to secure a bunch of ceasefires. Bad idea. Really, truly bad idea. Don't do this. Ever.

Every single ceasefire I secured has been broken. Every little girl and boy has been executed. I single-handedly wiped out a generation with my foolishness. Now I'm adopting generals to replenish the gene pool. Stupid lemur!

[TosaInu]

Chosokabe long campaign on hard.

So so, and then there appear to be two difficulty levels above that.

The first runs were more focussed on 'browsing' around, than really playing hard. But still, the AI keeps you on your toes in the campaign and it's doing quite well on the batlefield too. I'm not uncapable on the battlefield, yet the autocalc is doing a better job at times. Finally, it got some nasty surprises in the combination of those two parts (maybe I overlooked something, but it pays to be really cautious).

Cautious, that's how I'm used to play these games. But the overdose I use, doesn't seem to work here. When I consolidate too much/long or forget about developping a branch, the AI is going to take advantage of that (that's how it feels). And I have to adjust my play style a lot.

I'm around 1570 now and I'm stuck with an ally on Shikoku who has a huge army in his single province, but hasn't assisted me in any battle despite numerous requests. A few years before that the Ito on Kyushu declared war upon me. Luckily for me they also got a run in with the Tuitsui during their attempt to get a foot on Honda. Luckily as their navy vast vastly superior to mine and my landforces were a bit too weak and scattered. So I got some time to build my own navy. The Tuitsui were very friendly towards me, they are strong and keep the Ito's busy. I assembled an army of ashi yari and yumi, complemented with three samurai and a young general and launched a naval in Ito's centre (I expected it would be their weakest spot). It was and I could also easily get the 2nd province, which split Ito's territory in two pieces. There was no serious Ito payback, what I overlooked though was that they were allied with Mori. It seemed an insignificant clan, surrounded by the powerful and ambitious Tuitsui. A probe on the landing army learned me that Mori was serious: three taisho and loads of samurai, mounted too. My army was a little bigger, but wouldn't stand much change against it because of it being 75% or more ashi. The Mori also had a huge fleet, choosing sea with my army was risky. To get something good out of the attack, I decided to move away from the Mori, to the south were Ito was and destroy as much of that clan as possible. Mori was on my tail to the south, but a small rearguard diverted them and my mainarmy could destroy Ito armies, once deep south I went north again with massive mountains between me and Mori. I looted another city of Ito, gained loads of money and could return to my homeland by sea.

The looting allowed me to finally construct a naginata dojo, as well as cavalry and samurai archer producing facilities. I used a few turns to rearange my invading army with tougher units and launched a naval on Mori homeland. That was succesfull too. The powerful Tuitsui there would probably not like me, so I also just looted the place and moved away. Back to Kyushu. The new army is too much for Mori and the last of Ito. Then the religion problem popped up.

Nice challenges. But then came a shock. I was thing I had to conquer the whole of Shikoku and 1-2 provinces in Honda to win the game before 1600. Upon checking the requirements again, I noticed 40!

Both Shikoku and Kyusha are poor, so I will develop slowly
I have religion and rebel problems in Kyushu
While friendly, Tuitsui is a huge and ambitious power, who's virtually everywhere on my 'border' and very close to Kyoto
It's way into the 70's, with only 100 more turns to go it will be hard to conquer 30 more provinces
To win the game, I have to get rid of the Sogo, the unhelpfull ally with the huge army near my homeprovince

[LeftEyeNine]

Hey, Tosa-sama. Nice story, especially your unintended looting run was definitely smart.

Having been playing on Kyushu for the 5th time, the best part of residing there is definitely the trade nodes comparably closer to you than anybody else. Especially two of them, being both sources of incense, are almost dedicated to who is living on the western part of the island. Hyuga is especially a great province, very fertile soil while the town is itself a choke point, making it a naturally-defended one. Higo is yet another rich one but more vulnerable to assaults whereas it's oddly bordered in the north by the province to its east and that makes step-by-step conquest harder.

[Satsuma]

Just made an epic mistake. After the realm divide, I wanted to pick at the edges of the massive alliance against me, so I ran around the diplomatic screen, tossing out gold and hostages to divide (and conquer). In the end I passed out ever under-ten member of my clan as a hostage to secure a bunch of ceasefires. Bad idea. Really, truly bad idea. Don't do this. Ever.

Every single ceasefire I secured has been broken. Every little girl and boy has been executed. I single-handedly wiped out a generation with my foolishness. Now I'm adopting generals to replenish the gene pool. Stupid lemur!

Yep, I did the same thing last night.
AI seemed more than willing to make peace and trade deals in exchange for a hostage.
Next turn the kids get the chop.
To top it all, I've now got a bunch of heart-broken generals as they have all seen their first born murdered.

Don't know if this is the AI being cunning and deceiving me, or a bit of a bug/exploit

[Zarky]

Don't know if this is the AI being cunning and deceiving me, or a bit of a bug/exploit

I've now ran several times into a weird situation where some factions are LESS likely to accept a deal if I offer a hostage to them. And this sure is not because they intend to betray me, because it's very early in campaign.
Also, has anyone had "moderate" rated diplomatic deal pass? ever? without threatening? I can't seem to hammer out deal if they're just moderately likely to succeed.
I actually tried this by offering a trade deal, other party wanted money to sweeten the deal so I offered 250 which turned the likelihood of success to high, then I dropped the offer by 50 koku so that it became moderate and they turned it down...

The diplomacy sure seems nice, more reliable than in the past, but there are still some flaws...

[Dead Guy]

At this point in my Chosokabe campaign, I am Shogun and realm divide has been going on for a while. The biggest other clan is the Shoni, who has regions dotted about my lands on the main island and the western island. When they declare war (currently allies), I'm in for some major pain. As it stands now, I've formed two choke points southeast of Kyoto to wards the east, one in the mountains and one on the southern coast.

What annoys me to no end though is the AI's constant insistence on walking straight past my armies and going to some fort way behind the lines and take that. The most recent thing that happened to me was after I had advanced a region against the Tokugawa, then a full stack pops out of the forest behind me and takes the region I moved from. Argh. An Uesugi stack suddenly walked out of Shoni lands north west of Kyoto and laid siege. They don't have territory anywhere near that.

I guess the AI needs to cheat a bit, but how many stacks does it have? I've won solid victories time and time again against the very same clan, I must have killed off five Tokugawa stacks, but it does't feel like I'm getting anywhere, more full stacks seem to appear out of nowhere, and soon four more fronts are about to open up!

Whine whine... Anyway, I had the same pet peeve with Empire, armies frequently just ran around your army there too. I though Japans geography would limit this but it still happens. Got to spam more bow ashigeru I guess.

[Gregoshi]

My Mori campaign continues. I'm building up the economy and gradually increasing the army. A relative peace has reigned for several years. My staunch ally the Ouchi and I are in the process of carving up Kyushu from the belligerent minor clans (Shone, Sagara and Ito) who declared war on us. Shone and Sagara are gone. Ito holds 3 provinces but is weak and has no economy. Thanks to this situation, I have managed to grab 3 of the trade nodes off the shores of Kyushu, which has helped my bottom line. I'm bringing in about 3500 a turn, which is the best shape I've been in all game. Unfortunately that is just enough for one building upgrade and maybe a unit or two - depending upon the which building is being upgraded.

On Shikoku, the Chokosabi and Miyoshi have been idle for years. My major concern (and the Shogun's too) is the Asai. Though they are indifferent to me and we have a trade agreement, they dominate the center of Honshu with 19 provinces. The buffer clans are gone and I'm rubbing shoulders with a giant. Fortunately, they appear preoccupied with things to the east ("east" as in the way the campaign map is oriented). I'm also a little nervous about the Ouchi. They went Christian and our relationship went from "very friendly" to "friendly", they are as strong, if not a little stronger than I am, and my provinces on Kyushu is separated from my core group of provinces. Not the best position to be in should the Ouchi turn on me. Aside from the Asai and Ouchi, I'm concerned that I'm lagging behind in tech as well. But, hey, I'm still alive and kicking.

BTW, the Shone had captured the Black Ship. One of my fleets had the honour of fleeing from the Shone fleet of which it was a part.

[Ituralde]

My campaign continues to be a rollercoaster ride!

With North Shinano conquered my heartland lay wide open and Tokugawa took a second province from me: Hida. I hastily assembled some troops in Etchu province to act as a small deterrant, but shoudl Tokugawa come for me in froce my western holdings are lost. Meanwhile my Damyo enters North Shinano from the North and my heir repels an Imagawa attack on Kai. Another Imagawa stack is coming in from the South though and the Hojo joi in the fun by committing a full stack towards Kai themselves. My heir flees back towards North Shinano. Luckily Tokugawa has moved out from the castle in North Shinano to engage my Damyo in battle. The castle is empty so my heir strolls in with ease! My northern forces also manage to reclaim an undefended Hida. Next turn the Hojo take Kai.

Two steps forward one step back. Or rather two steps back. Fukushima has rebelled and the Shina have reappeared and taken the province from me. The Tokugawa main army is loath to engage me and moves east of the mointain range. We maneuver back and forth and I finally manage to defeat their army in an open field battle. Many Tokugawa leaders are slain and their grasp on their lands seem to falter. In the West my Northern Army took to ship and skipped over the rebellious Kaga province to claim the province south of it from Tokugawa. Seems like the force in Northern Shinano was their only strike force! Next turn they loose South Shinano to Kiso rebels and are eager to sign for peace.

With the Tokugawa repelled my Damyo can return to Echizen, just in time to repell an attack from the Shino, they have used their momentum to plunder my province. They only have ashigaru so my damyo beats them soundly in battle twice. The Hojo reappear in force from the South and have a huge stack aimed at North Shinano. What about my third enemy the Date? They seem to have had a change of heart and offer me an alliance out of the blue. I can't refuse such an offer and happily agree. One clan less to worry about for now. The Hojo bypass my army in North Shinano and go for my allies the Yamanouchi. They stand no chance and are obliterated!

I'm hanging on and make the best of the Date alliance to swing the tide of battle. My damyo pushes into Ashina lands and conquers Fukushima province. Luckily a large Hojo host is up north taking a province from my Date ally. My heir rushes from North Shinano all the way to Kai castle in one turn. Gotta love the strategist trait maxed out. My Ninja has shown me that the castle is undefended. Knowing I couldn't hold on to it I sack the province for 17000 koku. I'm RICH! The new cash helps me in finally upgrading my infrastructure. Next season my heir rushes back just in time to catch the Hojo army coming from the Yamanouchi lands. My damyo moves south and enters the Kanto plains from the East, while far in the West my former Norther army has swollen enough in size to take Kaga proivince from the Rebels.

So I went from being down to four province to being up to nine currently and I am poised to take over the Kanto plain from the Hojo. Their armies are scattered and their castles lie undefended in front of me. An alliance with the Kiso secures my southern border in North Shinano and I am ready to strike. Wonder what will go wrong this time, but somehow the title of Shogun doesn't seem that far away anymore.

[phonicsmonkey]

I lost my first campaign 12 turns in! Takeda on VH campaign, Normal Battles. First time I've lost a vanilla TW campaign since WRE in BI I think...

[quadalpha]

I lost my first campaign 12 turns in! Takeda on VH campaign, Normal Battles. First time I've lost a vanilla TW campaign since WRE in BI I think...

Hehe, that's brave. Right in the middle of the brawl on VH.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hehe, that's brave. Right in the middle of the brawl on VH.

I decided to go for the toughest option first up so I can see how much challenge there might be in the game. Actually I started on Legendary but restarted immediatlely when I realised I couldn't save inside the turn.

I am pleasantly surprised!