Played Any Classic Battles Yet?

[Chimpyang]

Friends can't see when I have hosted classic mode battles, I presume a lot of other people can't see them either, since nobody has ever joined a game, no matter how long i leave it. The game will also CTD or lag badly even in the setup screen, but only if I have classic mode selected (self hosting Normal Mode causes no problems as far as I can see myself)

Also, more maps for classic mode please (I mean the ones without key buildings on them), when hosting, if you deselect key buildings, the number of MP maps drops by 1/2, the option to play those maps without key buildings would be very welcome and add longeivity and purity to the game.

So yeah, classic mode is pretty broken. Normal mode without retainers or vets would probably be the fairest thing.

[Dionysus9]

Just for the record, I'm having similar problems in Classic mode.

[UglyJun]

plz stop calling avatar normal mode its not !!! classic is and they screwed it !!! lol

[Kocmoc]

We tried yesterday a classic battle, this is what happened:

1. colors are a problem still, we had 3 times red, its a nightmare! If we ever play on classic, we need to ensure, that we wont see same colors.... in 3v3 it will be impossible
2. Lag. heavy lag, already in the setup-phase, during game is was really bad as well
3. General. there seems to be no difference between the 300 and the 600 general
4. unitchoice, I checked all clans and i couldnt choose loan swords.
5. upgrades, as AMP already pointed out, upgrading missles isnt really an option.


Well, it was just one game, this need more testing, especially the lag (could be possible, that this isnt normal). Also we should invest some time to check out the stats and how its actual working. I myself have no idea whats going on with classic, never spend time into this.

If this is normal, than I dont see us playing classic, this is no fun and we hardly will find enough player, who like this.
The lag, the colors and the unit-system needs patching, else I see no point to play classic.

I will test a few more this weekend and will report here. One game is a not enough, so see this as my first experience, but not my final statement concerning classic.

[Tomisama]

plz stop calling avatar normal mode its not !!! classic is and they screwed it !!! lol

So true Jun

Classic is currently unstable; so many people are proposing a no-art, no-vets,
Avatar 3v3 contest.

If there is no relief or promise in the next week, we will probably go that way.

The recurring question is the balance of Generals.

[Kocmoc]

I dont think that it will be possible, to balance it for the different styles.
Once vets come in, the balance becomes tricky, if you take vets out, it will change again.

Imo there should be one working way in the first place, after that we can work on other things.
The Avatar-MM is the way most people play and that should be the first thing to balance and work on. If its sorted, than we could go and fix classic.
I see many who like the MM way and I dont see classic becoming mainstream at all.

You can maybe get a tourney going on classic, but you will leave a whole new generation of TW player out.

[Nigel]

I see many who like the MM way and I dont see classic becoming mainstream at all.

I am not so shure about that.
At the moment MM is the big hype as everyone is keen to level up and build their avatar.
But once most people have reaced level 10 and I understand that there is no more to go higher from there, it may become boring and people may turn (back) to Classical Mode instead.

That, of course, is only if CA get it working properly.

[Jochi Khan]

I see many who like the MM way and I dont see classic becoming mainstream at all.

As Nigel posted, I also am not sure about this quote.

Weren't we promised that, those who liked the original way of playing MP would still have the Classic Mode for playing online?

You can maybe get a tourney going on classic, but you will leave a whole new generation of TW player out.

Aren't they already left out by the fact that they still can't see games being hosted.
I have spent hours in the chat lobby trying to explain to 'newcomers' the complications of this so called 'new setup'
Some of them even begging to be invited to play if you will host.

This game is going totally backwards other than for the players arranging to play all hours together just to get to 10 Star Generals.

[AggonyKing]

well there really is no way to balance the cost of avatars unless everyone is the same level but we can at least have a minimum level requirement like 7 and up. There are also 2 discount retainers that come in handy for saving extra money and getting those extra units. My avatar currently costs me 1300 (not level 10 yet) but with the discount retainers I can easily field my favorite seup :)

[Dionysus9]

I guess I'm not too terribly worried about it. The higher level avatars are pretty over-priced. Right now I'm 6 stars and I've been routinely beating 8 star avatars. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, and my win/loss ratio isn't all that hot-- but my point is-- the glory and honor of taking out a higher star avatar (and the shame and humiliation inflicted) make a pretty strong incentive to fight avatars above ones level-- especially in a public context like a tournament. I guess, on the flip side, the higher avatar guys have only pride to lose by playing lower-star avatars...so... well I guess I can see the point that nobody was making, lol...

I know that this is a game and that tourneys are akin to a "sport" and therefore everyone wants to have a level playing field (although not necessarily a flat map) -- but on the other hand, this game attempts to realistically simulate ancient battlefield tactics-- When in ancient warefare were the opposing sides ever precisely "equal?"

And of course that is a rhetorical question because we all know it was never fair or equal. Anyway-- now I'm just repeating myself.

[Tsavong]

I seem to find the battle list empty most of the time be the battles avatar or classic I don't know if it is because I can't see the games hosted or no one is hosting still if others are having this problem would make it hard to find players for classic games.

[Chimpyang]

So summary of my other experiences with the MP

Manually hosting an avatar game seems to be fine, no lag, crashes etc...but I'm not sure whether people can see it in the list or not, since my friends insta-joined. Classic mode battles seem properly screwed atm, lags, crashes etc.., and I'm finding it hard to convince people who are new to TW to play on the avatar system, since they don't like the unfair playing field created. Also, classic mode needs a neutral faction, without bonuses, so tourney play can be carried out on an even playing field (i.e. they dont mind losing if it is all down to skill, but the purity of the win is diluted somewhat if there are variables such as retainers, general abilities, unit unlocks etc... thrown in, this is ofc until everyone gets every unlock available to them....)

MM can be a little bit borked when it comes to placing you in battles, but nothing that is insufferable. I see people saying that MM puts then into 3v1 or other imbalanced games. When this happens, so long as the host player is clued up, they can open and close spots so that people can juggle onto the right teams.

Community is ok so far, lots of people are polite and do the Gl hf, and gg etc...ran into some really immature kids around, but not more than expected or more immature than on CODBLOPSFiSt. Not much chat going on though, the people you play through MM often arnt in chat, so you can't banter about matches, make challenges etc...like in the good old days. If only CA would just put everyone into one room.

Drop in battles are a LOT of fun and work quite well, but because it's a default option at campaign startup, you can get some matches against very inexpereienced players, and more often than not, I feel bad about beating them, especially if the battle looks like it is quite significant (large armies, important characters)

Question - what effects are people noticing on unit sizes? Small gives lots of room for manoeuvre, but I'm undecided as to whether it favors Cav as seen before. 4v4 on anything above normal doesnt seem feasible on the maps currently, since i imagine it would just be line vs line warfare...also, what factors determines the unit size in a MM battle? Are people deliberately setting small unit sizes to force other people to play to them?

[Nigel]

Are people deliberately setting small unit sizes to force other people to play to them?

No, MM team battles seem to automatically go to small unit sizes, which is a big area of concern and has been discussed at the official forum in some threads. In short, most people would prefer to play larger armies in MM team battles (e.g. on small sizes matchlock units can sometime kill or rout another small unit with a single volley).

[Sp00n]

Ive been involved in some Classic games since this weeks patch, not great news. Upgrades didnt transfer from army selection into the battle, games were very laggy and we had a number of crashes trying to create a game at all.
On top of that there seem to be many bugs, units not following commands etc.

[jackie_fish]

i have played classic battle but to be honest i think it is dead

[Dionysus9]

Spoon-- Hmmm... I played some last night and had fun but I didn't check valor upgrades to see if they worked. I'm wondering if your crashing and game creation problems might have been associated with a particular player's connection? I'll play a few more tonight and see how they go. As far as I can tell they are only "dead" because people want to rank up their avatar and vets by playing non-classic.

[Swoosh So]

The generals are well balanced tomi, and at the end of the day everyone has the same trees to construct their general from so no problem there. I actually think more and more each day that we should just do tournaments with vets as its getting more and more fun when were hosting clan v clan matches. i was a big fan of doing no vets games u know when but tbh it kinda feels like id be going back to some dusty stifled mode without vets ofc i will if the cwc is set that way which im sure it will be. Id say med or large funds with avatar mode and all retainers usable should be quite fun.

[Tomisama]

I am reposting this here for any who have not had the opportunity to see it.

Why do we need a Classic Battles mode?

The seriousness with which most Total War veteran Clans approach international long term Team competitions can be, and most often is extreme!

The commitment in man hours in practice and playing many Matches, and managing your real life around competition dates, can put a heavy price tag on participation in these events.

The smallest details come under the magnifying glass, and with everyone ramped with anticipation, and can often get blown out of proportion in importance.

And it can only take a single word like “cheater”, or a Match situation that is so close that both sides come back raving about how they were the actual winners, to blow a whole contest.

To minimize the volatile potential that these major Team contests have, both Teams must have access to exactly the same resources in both quantity and at the same time, not just potentially.

And here’s the hard part; everything must be completely up front and fully visible at the start; and completely reviewable after the Match is over, so that any questions as to the correctness of the result can be verified to be legitimate.

Avatar does not have the transparency necessary for contest administration to be able insure fair play for global level multi-partner multiplayer events.

Avatar is great fun and I have nothing against it at all. But there is no competitive sport anywhere in the world that would allow various entry levels of contestants, or a pre-accumulation of game advantages, for a definitive head to head test of skill.

[Dionysus9]

I know exactly where you are coming from Tomi and as a tourney admin (and the best tourney admin out there, mind you) you have to look out for your contestants. We all respect you for your fairness!
I'm sorry, though, I just can't help but be a gadfly, its part of my fundamental nature.

What about boxing? In boxing you have weight classes. Sometimes a guy is at the top of his weight class (almost in the next one) and he's fighting a guy who is at the bottom of the weight class (almost in the lower one). Their height and weight, reach, fitness and training will differ-- which of course makes a difference in the outcome of the sporting event.

Similarly, in the Olympics-- contestants from developed nations have a substantial advantage in training and equipment that athletes from developing nations don't have because they can't afford superior equipment and training. Again those advantages accumulate and make a difference in the result.

I understand it is your goal to minimize those sorts of differences and advantages - but try as we might, they will always be present. Someone who can play Shogun 2 full time 60 hours a week is going to have a massive advantage against me if I'm only playing 10 hours a week.

All of that said, I tend to agree that Avatar does not have the level of transparency neccessary. You can't tell in a replay what retainers the avatars both had. That alone is probably a deal-breaker.

Keep striving for the ideal, Tomi, it makes your tournies a success.

[Jochi Khan]

And here’s the hard part; everything must be completely up front and fully visible at the start; and completely reviewable after the Match is over, so that any questions as to the correctness of the result can be verified to be legitimate.

One thing that has not been mentioned.

In past CWC games there has always been the option for the Administrator to ask for the saved replay to be uploaded to verify any difference of opinion about a result.

As the game is now, a saved replay stops when the battle finishes. It does not show the result, game players names, total kills etc for each player.
There is no way that an adjudicator can judge whether or not there has been a misdemeanour.
So replays are no longer evidence of fair play.

[CanCritter]

hmm..outa the pot and into the fire...l say we hang them

[AggonyKing]

you can still tell who is who as the loading screen will tell ya :) and with CWC being a "no same clan" it won't be hard to always know who took what.

its still annoying though, why can we see the names on avatar mode replays but not on regular mode replays? :/

[Tsavong]

I suppose as they can not see it from a replay they could ask for a screen shot of the battle results screen from each player.

[Tomisama]

I suppose as they can not see it from a replay they could ask for a screen shot of the battle results screen from each player.

Exactly (well not every player)

4. Results
The results must be posted with a capture by the winning Team of the Match. The replays must be saved for an optional public diffusion at the end of the Contest. The losing team must confirm the result as a matter of sportsmanship.

But "all" claims (wins and errors) must be documented acording to the Rules.

http://clanwars3540.yuku.com/topic/1...ulations-v-1-0

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

If you ask me?

I don't mind hosting classic battles,(my computer can run classic MM battles)And I think I can host a team battle or a 3 vs 3.I don't know why they seperated it.

I mean you can't play like The Takeda vs The Chosobake,instead its avatar mode,and I'm not impressed with that. :!

Imagine if ,Lets say I am Takeda Shingen and I have my 2 Generals beside me Yamamoto and Nobutomo vs Chosobake and other players.

That would be good,anyone interested for that match or something else I dont know.

[Graphic]

Since avatar conquest is a futile endeavor right now, I guess I'm down for some classic battles.

Just add me on steam and we'll play sometime.

[Swoosh So]

Cant believe cwc is gonna be ruined with classiic mode i was so looking forward to it :( i dont see any sense in using this crap mode, just go with no vets im telling u its way better than classic, if generals are different levels (most will be level 10 anyway) the lesser player gets more cash to spend so its all good there.... did u vote on classic mode v avatar mode or something? who the hell would vote for this mode? somone who hasent played much?

[AggonyReborn]

the main issue with playing avatar mode is the general cost due to retainer costs. Those retainers wont be used in this type of format. so technically the lower level players will have that money advantage. If avatar mode is used then all players should be level 10 in order to participate. Classic mode is buggy indeed, but its the best alternative to no advantages for any side. plus its interesting to play without the option of using loan swords, and monk matchlocks, can make for some different army builds.

[Swoosh So]

I mean play avatar mode with everything including retainers just missing vets.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

Since avatar conquest is a futile endeavor right now, I guess I'm down for some classic battles.

Just add me on steam and we'll play sometime.

will do.