Skill point strategies

[therother]

I'm finding I tend not to spend all the skill points available as soon as the character ranks up, preferring to wait until they reach the better skills. For instance, I only spend one (on Strategist) when a general goes to 2 stars, preferring to spend the extra points on either the Poet (research bonuses) at 3 star and/or the command bonuses at 4.

I was just wondering if people had any skill point strategies? Do you balance or concentrate? What's the best combination for a your daimyo, "apprehension" meksute or a assassin? Is getting to to the bottom of the skill tree anyone's goal (don't think I've ever done it!).

[Monk]

I only concentrate on a few of them. Strategist is the biggest since it gives such a huge boost to movement - I always find i'm ending up short of my objective unless i've got at least two points in it. Field attacker/defender is also pretty important to me, but otherwise I don't find myself concentrating on a single skill. My heavy hitting general, the one I put at my 'elite' stack, normally has field attack/defender and strategist all to their max with a few secondaries filled in here and there.

For my backup general/family members I usually concentrate on + defense bonuses and use them for shock charges. If I have 3 stacks (not usually until very late game) I will have one commander as my ambush/night battles guy built specifically for those types of actions.

[Rothe]

For generals I stick to the left side of the skill trees. I don't use generals for naval warfare really, and personal skills for the general units are not that important in a battle. Better to focus on command and bushido. The bushido boosting skill is funny in a way, since the second step adds +9%, which is a huge boost over the first +3% and the +12% that comes in third place. I tend to put two points in that, max out strategist and then go for command. For a defensive general I will skip the strategist 2nd and 3rd step and aim for ashigaru commander.

For Metsuke, I will max out oversee town. Perhaps some players have not noticed that the metsuke overseeing increases tax rate by 5% per star. That is a big boon to the wealthiest cities. Apprehension is perhaps good for getting the Metsuke to level, so 1 point in that might be ok.

For Ninja, I just usually put a bit in sabotage for leveling, and then I max out the assassination bonus. That way I can skip using Metsuke for apprehension and just assassinate troublesome agents with my ninja.

Monks I level in many ways. I will usually have a monk for converting religion in a province, and there I will max out those bonuses. I might keep a monk for character conversion and demoralize and then a monk for boosting morale of my own troops. The other monks I might use for happiness boosters so that they can move around in case of food shortage or something else that causes discontent and that way I can avoid using upkeep for garrisons in the castles.

[Seyavash]

I have played around with different strategies. Most recently I have tried to specialize my generals with one taking on the great warrior role and others more on the strategist side. However with all generals and agents I try to go for the chi and bushido bonuses.

Ninja's I focus on the assassination tree with a few points to the sabotage side. I find that even with an assasination focus they usually don't get caught and killed on sabotage jobs.

Metsuke I focus strictly on overseeing towns.

For all of them I will use a single point to skip to the next skill that I really want. since metsuke tree alternates between town and army oversight I max town and give one to the army so I can get to the next town skill.

I haven't come up with a set strategy for monks yet.

[Zarky]

My plan for monks is stick to the left side. I usually end up hiring most of my monks through holy site province so I build Pilgrim hostel there, already gives +6% to chi research. Then I have them demoralize every single enemy army until they level up and keep at the left side, also putting points to +demoralising armies and maybe character conversion if enemy agents start popping up more than my ninjas can handle.

[Rothe]

My plan for monks is stick to the left side. I usually end up hiring most of my monks through holy site province so I build Pilgrim hostel there, already gives +6% to chi research. Then I have them demoralize every single enemy army until they level up and keep at the left side, also putting points to +demoralising armies and maybe character conversion if enemy agents start popping up more than my ninjas can handle.

I'll have to check which skills are on the left, but seems like a good idea.

Still, I really think it might pay off to get one monk good at converting people to buddhism, to be able to build a Nanban port and/or to be able to take areas with different religion at max (like Ikko Ikki) and convert them really fast. If you can get a monk with 4 stars in conversion, he can for instance support one Nanban port without any christian influence getting through.

[Dead Guy]

What do the stars actually do for generals? What boni do they provide in battle?

I've personally focused a lot on infantry commander, because stand and fight is p. awesome, it's like inspire light for all units in the radius, and the + melee attack is also nice. I had that fear-causing one on one of my generals but never paid attention to see whether it worked. Never gone with the +combat stats for bodyguard ones...

[Zarky]

What do the stars actually do for generals? What boni do they provide in battle?

I've personally focused a lot on infantry commander, because stand and fight is p. awesome, it's like inspire light for all units in the radius, and the + melee attack is also nice. I had that fear-causing one on one of my generals but never paid attention to see whether it worked. Never gone with the +combat stats for bodyguard ones...

Well the stars matter more in auto-resolving as they represent the generals skill. This of course doesn't matter much to me since I try to fight all the 50-50 odd or very large battles myself.

fear causing trait is kinda awesome, using that with stuff like fire arrows and big charges rout ashigaru in a blink of an eye. Though usually enemy general throws in rally and inspire so that it's rather hard to pull off.

[quadalpha]

Yes, there's a good one on the bottom row that reduces enemy morale. Trouble is by the time I get there the strategic situation is under control, so I no longer fight (m)any big battles.

Also, can we possibly stop using "boni" as the plural of "bonus"?

[Rothe]

I agree. Boni is not actually correct. Read up on it if you doubt it.

[econ21]

We are capped at 12 skill points, I think (2 each for level 2, 3 and 4; 3 for 5 and 6). That introduces some hard choices, except for the right hand side column of skills - boosting the bodyguard unit - which seems like junk.

It's worth thinking about saving points and trying to get far down the tree but I would like to max out strategist if I could. Being faster than the other guy seems essential if you want to catch him or evade him.

I am rather taken by the sound of siege expert - cutting sieges down by 3 turns sounds very nice. Having just lost virtually my entire army trying to take a well defended castle, I was thinking about starving them out in similar situations. That would require 2 points plus 3 for the prereqs - strategist(1)/infantry commander(1)/ashigaru commander(1).

I also like the sound of intimidating - lowering the enemy's morale. You can get that ability for one point plus 3 for the prereqs strategist(1)/poet (1)/honorable (1).

For my next game, I'd be inclined to make an intimdating siege expert daimyo - with 2 points in honorable for higher honour which gives a diplomatic + loyalty boost and 3 in strategist for the campaign movement speed. Just doable with 12 points.

If multi-stack forces are a feature of the end game, I'd think hard about stealthy (3) for the night attack ability. I assume that allows you to attack one stack in isolation as in BI and M2TW. I had hoped a ninja's subverting an army could achieve the same effect, but it did not (if the two are close enough, even a subverted army can reinforce).* Indeed, stealthy sounds better than intimidating for a general (for a daimyo, honorable is appealing so intimidating costs only one point). In BI, where multi-stack armies proliferated (hordes), night fighters were golden.

One thing I am not sure about is how important command stars are outside of autoresolve. If they boost attack/defence stats as in some of the early TWs, skills that give command stars would be a no brainer. But I seem to recall therother discovering that in RTW they just boost morale, in which case I'd skip them. Combat seems awfully lethal out of the box - I'm more worried about my men being killed than running away.

The exception to disregarding command star skills may be naval combat. Next game, I'll dedicate a pirate/admiral general to lead my main fleet. I am less proficient at naval combat, so need every edge I can get and morale does seem more of an issue (typically no generals I guess?). Plus I'd be more inclined to autoresolve a sea battle than a land one. Strategist seems even more desirable for an admiral than a land commander if the movement bonus works at sea.

So far, I am finding my daimyo does nearly all my fighting. For secondary generals, I guess poet is the best choice. +12% to bushido research per general is pretty powerful - especially early on in the game for the specialist research missions, archery ammo, naval movement, fire arrows etc. It's probably worth putting only 1 point in strategist for this. Having them tag along to reinforce the main army (and so get XP) is probably worth the hassle, at least until they are level 3.


* Subverting armies by ninjas can achieve the same result.

[andrewt]

I aim to max out the chi and bushido bonuses as I find arts research to be way too slow in this game. For generals, I eventually grab the -15% unit upkeep since it's on the same line as the bushido bonus anyway. For metsuke, it's all about overseeing towns and increasing tax. Ninja, I'm all over the place.

[seireikhaan]

I got a general to maxed ashigaru commander and infantry leader, and I've liked it. Ashigaru units with good morale and decent melee worked quite well for me. Then maxed him out with the siege attacker bonuses, which are absolutely bonkers. Reducing siege length by 3 turns makes sieges so much easier its absurd. Against a lot of castles, it makes the siege length one or two turns until they have to sally out and attack me in the open field, on my own terms. Much, much easier in most cases where I'd otherwise get all kinds of cut up trying to attack the castle directly or wait for two years.

[xploring]

We are capped at 12 skill points, I think (2 each for level 2, 3 and 4; 3 for 5 and 6).

Does this apply to all the agents as well?


I really like the night battle ability, seems like a must for attack to isolate the enemy stacks from each other and lighten the effect of the barrage of arrows. Campaign movement is also important but not so interested in bonus for particular group of troops, doesn't sound like they will make much of a difference.

[Zim]

I've been pretty schizophrenic with skill points in my first game, just trying to see how things work.

"For Metsuke, I will max out oversee town. Perhaps some players have not noticed that the metsuke overseeing increases tax rate by 5% per star. That is a big boon to the wealthiest cities. Apprehension is perhaps good for getting the Metsuke to level, so 1 point in that might be ok."

Really wish I knew this before. I'd been way underusing Metsuke. Better give them another look...

[econ21]

Does this apply to all the agents as well?

No, agents max out at 10 points I believe (2 points per level after the first).

[Rothe]

For generals, I like to get the 2 first bushido bonuses. The second is a +6% over the first, but the last is only +3% more.
I like stand and fight, and also I like to max out strategist.

For me, I try to use all my generals to fight, so in case I lose someone, the loss is not my best general, just one of many decent ones.
I also try to adopt any generals I can get, before I have my own sons. That way, the family tree should be quite big. Also, having as many generals as possible allows me to use an admiral or two - naval fights don't give a lot of XP so perhaps it is better to level them on land to 2-3 stars and then put them in the fleet.

For ninja, I just had my first maxed out one. I maxed assassination and took some escape chance bonuses, and I think the last skill is a funny +3% to all actions. It seems that with that skillset, the ninja can do most things safely, even non-assassination missions, and assassinate almost anyone at 50%+ chance. I use him every turn, and I have decided not to reload if my agents get killed. The coolest thing with this super-ninja is the mask in the campaign map - he gets a mask that I think represents an Ogre or demon of some kind.

[econ21]

I also try to adopt any generals I can get, before I have my own sons.

A little off topic, but I was inclined towards doing that but then I noticed that every general you adopt costs your existing generals one loyalty and so I stopped doing it. I am not exactly sure how loyalty works but if it is anything like BI, it gives your best generals a finite life of loyal service - as they get more successful, they seemed to become more of a threat (nice realism touch, I guess).

Good point on levelling the admiral on land first before putting to sea - I tried using one in a fleet, but got dispirited when I naval battles did not seem to level him up.

[Dead Guy]

I find the honorable trait to be completely useless.

If you get you Daimyo to level 4+ he's going to have won enough major engagements to earn him at least +2 from that anyway. I took it in my first campaign but my Daimyo just ended up with 8 honor, 6 being the maximum effective honor. Might be worth it if you want to loot a lot I guess? Kind of a waste imho.

[Rothe]

A little off topic, but I was inclined towards doing that but then I noticed that every general you adopt costs your existing generals one loyalty and so I stopped doing it. I am not exactly sure how loyalty works but if it is anything like BI, it gives your best generals a finite life of loyal service - as they get more successful, they seemed to become more of a threat (nice realism touch, I guess).

I monitored my generals' loyalty levels when I adopted and I noticed that any generals in your family lose loyalty if they are related by blood (e.g. your biological sons). So far I did not see any loyalty drop after adopting two generals when I had no sons of my own.

Once you get a son that comes of age, then adoption might not be a good tactic. For brothers, I am not sure if adopting has effect, but if I get a chance, I will try it.

[econ21]

So far I did not see any loyalty drop after adopting two generals when I had no sons of my own.

I have seen it with non-family generals. In my Oda campaign, the starter non-family general lost one point when I adopted a general. He lost another point when I adopted a second (prompting a reload and a declined adoption when I realised what was going on!). The first son had come of age by that time, so maybe that is what explains our different perceptions?

Good point on honorable being a waste, Deadguy - I did not realise 6 was the cap.

[quadalpha]

The max number of stars for anything is 10 (or 9 or something), right? So if you know you'll have a maxed out general/agent, you shouldn't, optimally, take more than a +4 (or +3) bonus to anything because anything more would be wasted when he's levelled up.

[xploring]

Does someone know what the command bonus gives you? (e.g. Field Defender/Attacker) Some players at .net says it's a morale bonus, but it's got to be more than that, otherwise why did they use the word "command" instead of "morale".


A minor gripe - it sucks that it takes a point in Cavalry Commander to get the wedge formation. That should be free.

[quadalpha]

Does someone know what the command bonus gives you? (e.g. Field Defender/Attacker) Some players at .net says it's a morale bonus, but it's got to be more than that, otherwise why did they use the word "command" instead of "morale".


A minor gripe - it sucks that it takes a point in Cavalry Commander to get the wedge formation. That should be free.

Hm, you get extra stars for it. Do stars work the way they used to? I remember your units got 1 extra valour for every two stars or something in MTW. And valour, I think, increased a whole bunch of stats.

[frogbeastegg]

Hm, you get extra stars for it. Do stars work the way they used to? I remember your units got 1 extra valour for every two stars or something in MTW. And valour, I think, increased a whole bunch of stats.

According to the game's encyclopedia, they do. Check the section under manual -> campaign play -> experience for a list of precisely what is given at each level. At level 1 they get +1 to melee attack and defence, +2 to missile reload skill, +1 morale and +2 to missile accuracy, and it keeps on scaling. At later levels they get a reduction in fatigue as well.

Very valuable.

[econ21]

Experience is awesome, but command stars don't raise it anymore as far as I can tell. The way command stars affect manually resolved battles changed from STW/MTW to RTW. There is a thread on it in the Ludus Magna. For RTW, CA maintained they do affect combat prowess (perhaps by affecting melee defence) but therother's description of his tests seemed to imply it was a muted effect if it existed. (By contrast, in STW/MTW, a nine-star general turned peasants into monsters.)

I have not read anything definitive about command stars in STW2, so I suspect it is like RTW: the main effect of command stars is raising morale - probably confined to the blue circle of influence.

CA also said in regard to RTW that command increased the radius of influence - that should be visible now if it is still true.

I'm finding morale not to be a big constraint in my land battles, so I won't pick skills for command stars (except admirals/pirates). They could be very nice in a realism mod that made combat less lethal. EB was parismonuous with command stars, which may be consistent with that.

[quadalpha]

So I guess they've stopped tracking experience on a man-by-man basis, so you'd get a 5-exp unit back if you reinforced the lone survivor of a 5-exp unit?

[econ21]

So I guess they've stopped tracking experience on a man-by-man basis, so you'd get a 5-exp unit back if you reinforced the lone survivor of a 5-exp unit?

From what Slaists posted on twcenter, the experience of reinforcements varies with the rate of replenishment. If you replenish slowly (e.g. in an undeveloped castle), your reinforcements tend to have higher average experience. If you replenish fast, your 5-exp unit will soon drop down in quality.

However, I think this is largely irrelevant given that you seem to pay full support cost for a one man unit. Given that, it seems much better to consolidate depeleted units after loses and just recruit new ones. That will save you money and give you an elite force of veteran units.

[econ21]

On ninja skills, one of type of ninja I like is the army scout: the chap who you attach to your main army.

So the army scout build starts out with three points in spy for +15 line of sight.

It ends with two points in invisible for +10% army campaign range.

Along the way you want to pick up two points in master of disguise for another +10 % campaign range.

I would fill in the tree with just one point in infiltrator and the full two in escape artist. You can't afford two in both and escape artist dominates infilitrator.

The scout will thus allow your main army to have a further line of sight and to move faster. Plus you have picked up almost all the survival talents, which I really like as reloading when an agent fails just feels wrong. To level the chap up, you are going to have to do some missions in the quiet times. Suriving those missions is more important than succeeding with them as they are essentially just training exercises.

[Daveybaby]

To level the chap up, you are going to have to do some missions in the quiet times. Suriving those missions is more important than succeeding with them

This also applies to ninjas that youre training up as saboteurs or assassins, but obviously you want to put skill points into those branches instead of spying, which makes things tricky. So instead, when picking ancillaries for ninjas, one of the choices almost always gives +10% chance to escape on failure, and i always pick those. Seems to work out well for me so far.