Rise to power: How I learned to stop worrying and love Realm Divide

[Monk]

Monk I'd have to whole heartedly agree with you.

(I play N/N)

Originally I hit RD and my campaign went south quickly. I downloaded Yarkis' RD mod and have played several campaigns since, and it seems more like the classic TW....Easy peasy. Once you have a few rounds of the game under your belt and learn the various nuances - there are alot of them, not a ton, but a good deal - I decided to remove the RD limiting mod to bring the challenge back and have found it fits nicely.

That's the spirit, take a deep breath and fall into the abyss!

I have to admit my first realm divide was a.. harrowing experience. When it hit, my treasury went straight down the drain. I was scrambling, disbanding three entire stacks of units, focusing on a strong, but expensive, core of good quality units. My head was barely above water, two stacks against all of japan. Fought from around 1573 - 1588 against a very tough Oda Shogunate, who led all of Eastern Japan against me.

Even when I hit victory I was having so much fun I kept playing passed the victory screen. Which is something i've never done in TW before. I didnt stop until 1605 when the last enemy province fell and the map was a lovely Chokosabe black. I haven't played the main campaign since then. Partly due to lack of time, but largely due to how many incredible memories a single campaign has given me. It's been fun watching replays of the epic battles waged over that 30 year span.

[Leptomeninges]

So, for those of you who turtle a lot before RD, how long do you wait? My nature is to push so this business about waiting a lot runs against the grain for me. Playing a long game, so in theory I think I have until 1600 to get my 40 provinces.

[econ21]

In my first (only) game, I think I waited to about 1570. The game ended about 1575.

I didn't really turtle, as I think that will be very hard: you will be handicapping yourself a lot if you stay small. I expanded quite rapidly early on (H/N as Oda) to get about 12 provinces. But then as I approached RD, I applied the breaks - I wanted to fully secure the trade nodes and enjoy a little peace n quiet. When I finally pushed it, I had about 140k in the bank and had upgraded almost everything in my provinces. Even though my holdings were horribly dispersed and I only had three so-so armies, it was rather easy. There was one central faction that was "terrifying" but once I had defeated their three full stacks, there was no real threat. I didn't feel I was waiting a lot - I was largely at peace in the period just before RD, so the turns flew by.

I've been thinking about moving to VH campaigns[1], but trying that as Takeda, the first 5 years made the Oda realm divide look like a picnic. Trying to hold on to North Shinano reminded me so much of trying to hold onto to Shinano in the original STW. A veritable Verdun in the east.

[1]I could not abide going above normal difficulty for battles, as it seemed to unbalance the naval battles so much (you lose fair match up boarding actions; your ships rout first etc). It's a shame, as I've read the BAI is not fully switched on (does not flank) on normal, which would be disappointing if true.

[Leptomeninges]

Hmm.. One of my dirty little secrets is that I've actually never learned to fight naval battles well at my current or any other difficulty setting. While I fight out almost all my land battles on a skirmish map, for naval I just get numeric superiority and autoresolve them all. (For whatever reason, unlike land battles I usually find it to be pretty easy to get numeric superiority in naval battles.) I suppose I should invest a bit in learning about them. Need to find a thread where a naval expert shares their secrets...

[edyzmedieval]

I never got a fancy video for Realm Divide...

I only got the minus in diplomatic relations and war declarations.

[Zim]

I just hit my second realm divide, this time as Hojo. They seem to have lengthened the time it takes to get to -200 relations greatly, so I've kept a couple allies. Everyone else declared war within a couple turns. I managed to get land consolidation before the RD, so I still have some income, and am trying to consolidate northern Japan while holding in the south.

[antisocialmunky]

Its alright...

I kinda wish there was an alternate victory condition to TW games like glassing Antares in MoO2. I wouldn't mind seeing the ability to invade Korea and conquer Beijing as the victory condition of an expansion.

[The_Emperor]

Well my campaign went south with realm divide I knew it was coming but did not quite expect it.

Still my armies were of such quality (shimazu) that i pushed RD with Kyoto as the final province at the SAME TIME in my short campaign. That was quite a gamble.

It all started off well with my blitzkrieg assault on kyoto when the Shogun was away and could not move back due to my Ninjas at work, but the second I declare war, BAM another stack appears from thin air in his province! (without pressing end turn strangely enough just on the declaration itself).

My allies stayed with me and even joined the war against everyone else when it really kicked in! (after my vassals had turned on me)

victory came close and I rushed to fill my 25 provinces for victory, upon reaching 23 a fleet of Takeda ships landed an invasion force on a lightly garrisoned Kyushu. Now I fear its all over for the Shogunate as most of my armies are stuck in the middle of the mainland scrapping with the Oda or my Ex-Vassals.

Someone said that vassals made after realm divide are ok, is the same true of vassals made after kyoto?

[Dead Guy]

The Realm Divide diplo-penalty is initiated both when you reach the clan fame threashold AND when you capture Kyoto, regardless of if one of those things has happened already. So do both before setting up 'safe' vassals for post-RD trade, or make sure you've got some allies with ~150 relations before you divide. To clarify, if you set up vasslas after realm divide and then capture Kyoto, they'll start getting the penalty at that point. I've never captured Kyoto before the clan fame has kicked in so I don't know if it works the other way around, but I have set up vassals before capturing Kyoto, and the realm divide diplomacy counter started for them on that turn.

[The_Emperor]

Well with testing I can honestly say that on my campaign I forced it early with Kyoto being the final province required to make the push and it seemed a good way to take the initial brunt of RD and having a fully working citadel with all of its troop recruitment slots was VERY helpful in pushing my fight to near total victory.

My biggest headaches were naval power and I really regret not landing a strike force on the Chosokabe's main island to "liberate" them to help me out, strategically I had no interest in their island when my biggest battles were happening on the mainland and I am sure their navy would have been useful.

Still my biggest surprise was that Takeda strike force landing in the home provinces that really caught me off guards and was very well played by the AI.

[Zarobien]

I kind of hate how the AI drops all sence and goes for backstab when it comes...

I made alliance with Date clan before the realm divider. I pretty much saved them from Uesugi and 3 other clans they where in war with. They where on huge defencive and had 2 provinces left. I married their daughter to my family. I gave them money... And then they declared war to me; they have one stack of units and two provinces. I have 20+ provinces and about 4 stacks fighting in each corner... This is anoying; why would a clan backstab its savior, allied, family and faction that will crush whole clan in few turns. It doesnt matter much in tactical sence; I'm holding half of the map and fighting the other half. But it does brake the illusion that theres I in AI.

[Next]

Nice info, thanks!

[Gregoshi]

Hello Next and welcome to the Org.

Make yourself at home and don't be bashful about asking questions or sharing your thoughts on the game.

[Toddyvegas]

Hi chaps, couldn't help realising that most players have overlooked what has saved my economy on each RD occasion.

Naval power.

You should have a superior navy at the point of RD. By attacking enemy trade routes, (and seperating your fleets out into single vessals), but close enough to support each other if attacked, you can still keep in the black. I went from earning over 20k per turn, to around 3k per turn after RD. So you can still build armies and slowly build your economy even without a single trade partner.

Just find the most lucrative trade routes and steal their goods.. Makes a lot more money than people realise..

[econ21]

That's a good point about fleets and trade routes, Toddyvegas.

Come to think of it, it seems to be one area where the STW2 AI is strangely weak. As Oda, I was able to secure all trade routes without much effort. This was surprising, as Oda is probably the faction furthest from them at the start. And in ETW, the AI - after patches - made it pretty hard to monopolise trade routes (even when playing GB).