Could the allies AI be good for once?

[Ca Putt]

Hi guys,

I lately got shogun 2 and am having a quite some fun.

If you don't care for the prelude just skip this paragraph ;)
So I started a Shimazu campaign on M/M did quite well tho I prefer to advance slowly which I did. the Otomo proved to be reliable trade partners and became chistian the same time as me, unfortunately they got conquerd by the shoni who together with the ... eh I forgot their name something with O and they had a flower mon became my mortal enemies. When I liberated the otomo home province I made them a vassal mainly because I needed the extra Honor and they seemed a good vassal to have. fun thing was that after I conquered kyushu and invaded honshu those little buggers conquered the next region via ship and after I had made the mori my vassals aswell(you know to keep the enemy navy at bay) and declared war on the guys with the tree mon:

The Otomo(my vassals) went berserk and conquered every province of the north/western coast until kyoto where I got the "the shogun hates you and so does everyone else!" message and declarations of war from all clans but the otomo and mori(thank god). Then they conquered every province around Kyoto and I had to hurry to get one or two in the area. As of now the Otomo(yes the Otomo) are the strongest clan but still my vassals :D

I'm preparing my march on Kyoto now while they fight the oda and the Ikko ikki.

What intrigues me is that normally in most videogames allied AIs are to dumb to change a lightbulb let alone to win battles against hostile AIs Is it just me or has Shogun 2 cast of this dogma?

[Fagar]

The enemy AI is most certainly one of the most advanced I have fought against but I had not really considered the possibility of it being equally as determined when used as a vassal..I am most keen now to give it a go..

I have completed the single player with Shimazu, Chokosabe and Date, I just started with Oda and might restart making a vassal or two and seeing if they can spread in one direction and let me concentrate my efforts in the other..Big possibilities for the harder clans if this is actually a manipulable trait of the AI..

[Xehh II]

While allies are amazing in S2TW, they still backstab you a while after realm divide event, if you have vanilla, I play with Darth Mod so I don't get that problem.
But in general allies are good, I have an Oda campaign where my Tokugawa vassals control quite a bit of land, they're actually doing better than me since they're still able to recruit armies and stuff( I recently bore the brunt of a Kono sea invasion that has left me stagnant after putting so much into the defence.) I forsee that the tokugawa will basically carry me on their back to ultimate victory, I'm still Shogun though so my victory is not lessened by this aid.

[Ca Putt]

To be pefectly honest I'm now at -185 relation from RD, Otomo and Mori are still my vassals but I doubt I can bribe them much longer from a realistic pov it may be backstabbing but from a gameplay pov it's simply their relation dropping too low. Sadly I lost Kyoto and most of my Generals(down to Daimyo and his 3 year old brother right now). I think I'll continue a save from before the otomo rampage with this RD mod that gives you a larger initial malus but deteriorates over time insead of increacing, I mean -200 relation is sort of bad :/ considering it's the Otomo that conquered all the land(in our golden year we had like 30 provinces: me 11 Mori 4 and Otomo 15)

Or I could give all the money to the otomo and let the Mori rebel, hmmm tempting.

It's good to hear that the AI is not just better for me. :) in some cases it really may be a viable option to let your Vassal do the dirty work for you. I have to admit that the urakami (at least that what I think they were called) had almost abandoned all their northern cities and the Otomo had a fullstack at the right place when I declared war. I do assume that there is some happy bonus for the AI tho because Those bastards managed to steemroll the region one province a turn with just one army something I could not do simply because they'd all rebel. Or does the Ai only get monetary help(this is on medium)?

[spankythehippo]

When I make someone my vassal, their only use to me is a human shield. They take the brunt of the damage, and I finish off the rest. As long as I'm "helping" them, they don't seem to mind. Also, I rent my lands to nearby clans. Pay me 300 per turn for 5 turns, and you can have military access for 5/10.

I always keep my vassals in check. To make sure they wont rebel. Even if that means they hate me, so be it. I'll just kill them off later. Always demand money from your vassals. Money = men = power. If you have to, threaten them.

But I do have a question. If an ally/vassal declare war ON YOU, do you get a worse Dishonouring Treaties thing?

[Sp4]

Same as above, when I get a vassal, I do so, when I want to take a break from conquest and use them as a buffer for my lands. I recently had a lot of fun playing Coop campaigns, but vassals are fairly useless in them, as they tend to make war with your human ally all the time =S In the end, I usually end up sending an army their way and being done with it.

[spankythehippo]

Same as above, when I get a vassal, I do so, when I want to take a break from conquest and use them as a buffer for my lands. I recently had a lot of fun playing Coop campaigns, but vassals are fairly useless in them, as they tend to make war with your human ally all the time =S In the end, I usually end up sending an army their way and being done with it.

I never directly send an army their way. I always send a monk and a ninja. Ninja kills off the generals and agents, and the monk incites a revolt. Once they revolt, I swoop in and take everything, without other clans frowning upon me.

[Sp4]

Yeah, if they are strong, that probably works better than going to war with them but I have never seen them grow past 2 or 3 provinces. I guess it has something to do with their agressiveness. I wish that would change from campaign to campaign, maybe have the game randomly assign those traits to the AI clans, as usually, it is always the same clans coming into power.

[spankythehippo]

Yeah, if they are strong, that probably works better than going to war with them but I have never seen them grow past 2 or 3 provinces. I guess it has something to do with their agressiveness. I wish that would change from campaign to campaign, maybe have the game randomly assign those traits to the AI clans, as usually, it is always the same clans coming into power.

That's true. That would be awesome, if they had the whole random temperament thing.

Here are my tactics with diplomacy.

If they're Peaceful, trade with them.

If they are strong and dependable, consider making them your allies. Also take into consideration their location. No point having an ally on the other side of Japan. But you should make a Triple Alliance, i.e. you and 2 other guys.

If they're treacherous, don't do anything until you get near. You want to choke the life out of them. Make friends with their allies and trade partners, then demand break of alliance/trade embargo.

The rest can die.

But the problem is if your allies have ties with clans you want to kill, I decide if I should trade with them, or convince my allies to kill them. That's the hardest part, figuring out which clans will like you, and which clans will hate you.