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  1. #1

    Default History: Historians Post your work here

    Imperiumiv on Judea

    This is unedited.

    I'll be adding an analysis of the hasmonean military in the near future. This is posted from a mobile device since I am stranded at the hospital. This will be modelled based on previous research threads and will be based primarily on several books in my library, as well as the primary source, Josephus.


    On a brief note, the Hasmonean army, very early on, had Cavalry, and even the Macedonian Phalanx. I will provide evidence for this based on inference, chronology, and circumstantial evidence found in the 1st and 2nd books of Maccabees, and Josephus.

    The Army 170s-120

    First let's discuss the use of Phalangites in the Hasmonean army. Until recently, I would have never put the words "Jewish Phalanx" together.

    I must first point out that the Jews living in the Levant at the time did not revolt because of internal politics between Hellenized Jews, and traditional ones. This is a modern theory, and it does make sense, considering that the Seleucids had previously been magnanimous toward the Jews. It is also true that I Maccabees is incorrect in stating that Hellenism was being imposed upon "All of the Land". It wasn't. But it was being imposed in the Levant, since it was a piece of real estate Antiochus IV was bound and determined to hold on to. being "Hellenized" is true, but it was tied to loyalty to the Seleucid monarchy. We must remember that the Jews had been influenced by Hellenism for well over a century prior to the revolt. Jewish philosophy post-Alexander shows the influence of Greek thought, and that the Jews were some how opposed to the majority of Hellenistic culture is not true. That Jews were exclusivist, and opposed to intermingle with others, is only true in a very limited sense. Greeks and Romans had their own purification rituals and laws. So for Greeks to somehow view Jews as legalistic, or stringent in their laws and customs, is unlikely. In fact, universalism is much more important in Greek thought than Jewish. with a few, rare exceptions, the laws of the Torah exclusively to the Jews. The laws of the Torah were only once imposed upon another people, The Idumaeans. This may in fact be due to the Hasmonean priesthood's misinterpretation of Universalism, which significantly influenced Jewish thought post-Alexander, and not simply for the sole reason of assimilating the Idumaeans, though it was probably the primary purpose. So now we know that the "Hellenism" in Judaea, was quite prevalent, and it was only the the banishment of Jewish Law from the Jews themselves, and the possible imposition of Greek religion, that stirred the revolt. It is not a far cry to assume that the Jews in Judaea were exposed to Hellenistic weaponry and tactics in the century and a half between the Maccabee revolt and Alexander's conquest.

    Now on the the "Jewish" Phalanx. I assume you guys are familiar with the argument in favor of a Macedonian Phalanx used by Judah's successors, but let's recap anyway. I'll summerize Bar-Kochva's argument.

    Jonathan fought a battle near "Azotos" in which the I Maccabees describes it as lasting from morning to night, with two lines of infantry. That Thorakitai could withstand a Macedonian Phalanx that long is unlikely. So we the Jewish heavy infantry must have been armed in a similar (I would argue VERY similar) to the Seleucid line. Eleazar had fought at Beth Zacariah, in which Josphus claims that the Jewish infantry fought with an elephant "before the phalanx of both sides met". Of course, phalanx usually just means a line of infantry, but it never referred to light infantry. So we can conclude that the Jewish infantry was armed in a manner that could match phalagites, and elephants. Is there really any formation c. 160 other than the Phalangial Phalanx that can evenly match the Phalanx on relatively flat ground? Not really. The battle of Magnesia vs the Roman legions, succeeded only when the Seleucid cavalry was either driven off or outflanked. Even when Macedon was conquered by Rome, it was described by a Roman commander (X) as the most terrifying infantry formation he had ever seen. During the battle of Azotos, Jonathan was surprised by Seleucid horse archers, in which he told his main line of infantry, (Macedonian Phalanx, or something extremely similar), to stay put. This is not behavior for light infantry and if they did not have shield, and more importantly, armor, they would have been decimated. So we must conclude that they were either Phalangites, or so similar to phalangites as to function in the same manner, or very well trained Legionaries. But that they were "legionaries" has about a zero % chance of being true, so we are left with the former.

    Now for cavalry. I must first start with a solid assumption in ancient warfare. That is that virtually all societies used cavalry, including those who did not place much importance on them. Greek Hippeis, were wealthy nobles who fought on horseback, the nature of hoplite warfare ends up being a contest of attrition, (and wills), without a "hammer" component. If the majority of Greek City state warfare was a matter of attrition, the male populace would have been adversely effected and would have left it's mark upon history, due to high casualties. Excluding high casualties, the battles would be very inconclusive, and the Peloponnesian war shows these effect, but no others. I am not an expert on that conflict, but I am sure there were a few of "decisive" battles. A good commander is likewise, not interested in a battle of attrition.

    II Maccabees describes a Jewish Horsemen, named Dositheus, chased an attempted to kill the Seleucid commander Gorgias at the battle of Elesa. Dositheus was obviously accompanied by a unit of cavalry, since only a madman would chase a cavalry unit alone. I Maccabees also describes Simeon commanding a unit of cavalry in a battle c. 138. So we must conclude they had cavalry, and they probably had some type of heavy cavalry, probably borrowed from the Seleucids, since the Hasmonean cavalry left a good account of themselves vs the Seleucid cavalry.

    The types of troop available of the early Hasmonean army are as such.

    Light Cavalry, Heavy/ Semi-Heavy Cavalry, High quality slingers, varying skirmishers, Heavy Phalangial-like troops, and light to heavy Spear and Swordsmen.

    On a final note on the Hasmonean arry, c. 160-120, we must remember that the books of Maccabees are good histories, but are biased, so as to portray the battles won as won only with Divine internvention. So it is probable that the numbers of the Hasmonean troops are diminished in the account, though I do not doubt they were probably outnumbered somewhat, and the odds were stacked against them. This is why the Seleucid troops are described in some detail, while Jewish armament is deliberately vague, so as to make them out to be poorly equiped, and rag tag, so to speak.

    Hasmonean Arms and Armor c 160-120







































    References:
    Paul was not a Christian - Pamela Eisenbaum
    The Complete works of Josephus
    I-II Maccabees
    The Army of Herod the Great - Samuel Rocca
    Judas Maccabaeus - Bezalel Bar-Kochva

  2. #2

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    The Dacian Warrior

    The Dacians were a tribal people, with a society at least superficially similar to that of the contemporary Gauls and Germans. We know from Roman writings that there were two "castes" in Dacian society - the upper class wore caps, long beards, and medium-length hair; while the lower class, made up predominately of farmers, went bare-headed with longer hair and less facial hair.

    A man of the cap-wearing caste, unless he was a priest, probably devoted most of his time to war. Factors like his birth, merit, and connections would determine whether he became a war-chief like Decebalus, serving as an officer in the Kingdom's army; or whether he fought simply as an elite warrior in the battle-line.

    The fact that Dacian priests are known to have used both bows and arrows, and spears, in rituals, would suggest that they were able and perhaps expected to fight alongside the "laymen" in Dacian society.

    The average Dacian warrior was just that - a warrior, by no means a professional soldier. Probably a farmer, hunter, or miner by trade, he was obligated to take up the spear when the local clan-leader was preparing for a raid - or preparing to muster his contingent for service in Decebalus' Army.

    Appearance and Clothing

    Dacians were said by contemporary writers to have been similar to the Germans and Celts in physical features - tall, fair-skinned, and blue-eyed, and tending to have red hair and muscular builds. How much of this is true, and how much of this is based simply on the Roman stereotype of the northern "Barbarian" cannot now be discerned. If nothing else, considering the possibility of intermarriage with Germans, Sarmatians, Celts, Thracians, Greeks, and Romans, it is likely that most or all hair colors, eye colors, and skin tones were to be seen in Dacia.

    Male Dacian dress was the same as that of other northern European Iron Age peoples. It consisted of a short-sleeved tunic, loose-fitting trousers, and shoes made from leather or even bark. Capes, as well as "Phrygian Cap" type headwear, were also worn by the upper class. Warriors wielding the dreaded falx apparently did so naked to the waist, wearing only their trousers and shoes. Trousers were tied at the ankles with leather or twine, and tunics were usually belted at the waist. Clothing may have often had Celtic-style tartan patterning.

    Weapons and Armor

    Dacian Armor

    There is little evidence for Dacian armor; it was worn only by elite, upper class warriors and was based predominately on that used by contemporaries and neighbors. Roman artistic renderings of Dacians occasionally depict Thracian style helmets and Sarmatian style scalemail. The possibility of a Greek breastplate, or chainmail lifted from a dead Roman or Celt should not be left out.

    Shields

    Dacian shields were identical in design to those used by contemporary Celts and Roman auxiliaries - they were flat or only slightly dished; were usually oval but sometimes hexagonal in shape; and they were capable of covering most or all of the body for use in a shieldwall or primitive copying of the Roman testudo formation.

    Individual Dacian warriors personalized their shields. Most shields were white, but were painted with swirling abstract patterns, real and mythical animals, astronomical and astrological symbols, and flowers and vegetation. Like Roman legionaries, Dacian warriors put great effort into beautifying their shields to make them look more intimidating to the enemy.

    Bows


    The bow was not a weapon employed by the Thracians, who strongly preferred the javelin. But the bow was a favorite weapon of the Scythians, and was also employed by the Celts, and it is from these peoples that the Dacians came to field proficient archers. The Dacian bow was a scythian composite style bow. Dacian archers functioned predominately as skirmishers, or for harassing the enemy during a siege.

    Spears

    The Dacians used a broad-headed thrusting spear just like those used in Celtic lands. The shield and the spear were considered the basic panoply of the farmer-warrior. Lighter spears or javelins were carried both by light infantry skirmishers, and by cavalrymen.

    Swords

    At least two kinds of double-edged sword were used by the Dacians. They used a short stabbing blade closely based on the Roman gladius, and noblemen and cavalrymen also used a longer blade like those used by Celtic warriors. Dacian warriors wore their sword on the right side of the body, so that they would not be covered by the shield. Most warriors did not own a sword, so these privileged few were keen to show off their luck.

    Knives and Daggers

    As in pretty much all armies in history, the Dacians carried small blades for a variety of utilitarian purposes, in addition to self-defense. Lower-ranking warriors who had only a spear or a bow probably had a dagger on their belt for self-defense in the even of their breaking their spear or running out of arrows.

    The Falx

    The dreaded Dacian "war scythe" is the iconic weapon of these peoples - and few other weapons ever instilled such anxiety in Rome's gritty legionaries as this vicious blade. The falx came in many sizes - there was a hand version not much bigger than a dagger; others were nearly as big as the men wielding them.

    This weapon crucially represented a samurai sword turned inside-out. It curved sharply at the tip, forming a sort of "beak" at the end which could be used to puncture helmets, armor, and shields - not to mention unguarded flesh. The Dacian warrior appears to have wielded the falx almost like a huge medieval broadsword - lifting it above his head before swinging it down onto his enemy. In loose formations Dacians also wielded the falx in broad, sweeping strokes that could slash a man's legs out from under him.

    Archaeology and Roman testimony indicate that the falx - though an important weapon - was not a prestigious one - it was wielded to terrible effect by nobleman and commoner alike. A partially Germanic tribe living near the Dacians, the Basternae, were especially famed for their dreadful skill wielding the falx, but all Dacian tribes produced this weapon. During Trajan's Dacian Wars, legionaries were actually equipped with gladiatorial-style arm and leg armor (manicae) to offer at least slightly more protection against the falx.




    Just a little bit of what their soldiers used in combat
    The typical weapons the dacians used were:

    Falx
    Sica
    Celtic type sword
    Axe
    Scyth
    Spear
    Bow
    Sling
    Dacian helmeants
    Dacian shields

    Skirmish shields






    Spearmen sheilds







    I'll edit this when i find some more or if i need add something

    EDIT: i DID NOT make those shields,i found them on the Mount and blade modding forum
    Last edited by Daco-Roman; 08-07-2011 at 22:05.

  3. #3

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Nice work Daco-Roman we can use this to make units for beta

  4. #4

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Dacian Axes?

  5. #5

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Dacian Axes?
    uh oh:) dont let skull see this;)

  6. #6
    Member Member Skull's Avatar
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    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkar View Post
    Dacian Axes?
    Hmhm....
    When the camel {S}thinks,it is time to leave the oassis!

  7. #7

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Oh no!! He found it hahaha! Well I think that argument was finally won

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