EBO EDU Hotfix

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Most similar unit would be Iberi Equites Caetrati who are similar to Cantabrians but have slightly more armor.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type iberian skirmisher cavalry equites caetratii
dictionary iberian_skirmisher_cavalry_equites_caetratii ; Iberi Equites Caetrati
category cavalry
class missile
voice_type Medium_1
soldier iberian_cavalry_equitescaetratii_hippakontistai, 30, 0, 1
mount saddle horse light
mount_effect elephant +1, chariot +2, horse +1
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, cantabrian_circle, very_hardy
formation 3, 4, 6, 6, 5, square
stat_health 1, 2
stat_pri 10, 15, javelin_m, 57.8, 8, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr thrown
stat_sec 11, 15, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.14
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 2, 10, 3, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 11, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2042, 462, 30, 50, 2042
ownership egypt, spain, slave

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type roman cavalry auxilia equiteshispanorum
dictionary roman_cavalry_auxilia_equiteshispanorum ; Eqvites Hispanorvm (Hispanic Auxiliary Cavalry)
category cavalry
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier iberian_cavalry_equitescaetratii_hippakontistai, 30, 0, 1
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount medium horse
mount_effect elephant +1, chariot +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, cantabrian_circle, hide_long_grass, very_hardy
formation 2, 4, 4, 6, 5, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 10, 21, javelin_m, 57.8, 8, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr thrown
stat_sec 11, 21, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.14
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 9, 9, 3, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 3
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 11, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2376, 588, 56, 241, 2376
ownership seleucid

About 300 price difference for +7 armor and -1 defense skill. This seems too small to me especially considering the Roman unit gets an officer. Also compare to the differently purposed, but similarly equipped (in terms of armor rating and region of origin) Iberi Curisi:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type iberian cavalry light curisii
dictionary iberian_cavalry_light_curisii ; Iberi Curisi
category cavalry
class light
voice_type Medium_1
soldier iberian_cavalry_curisii, 30, 0, 1
officer ebofficer_lusitanian_carthaginian_officer
mount saddle horse light
mount_effect chariot +1
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, very_hardy
formation 1.5, 4, 3, 6, 4, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 4, 33, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 250 ,0.38
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 12, 15, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.14
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 7, 11, 3, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2845, 710, 40, 60, 2845
ownership egypt, spain, slave

These have a spear, and so are differently purposed and might be considered higher tier with +1 melee attack and two higher morale. But their armor rating is again lower and yet cost about 600 more. There seems to be an issue here. Shouldn't the Romans be somewhere in between in terms of both effectiveness and price?

[Kival]

Okay I'll check their costs but I'm quite sure the costs for them are calculated correctly. Note: Iberi cursis are one tier higher unit, that's why they cost more.

[Ludens]

Do you want me to move the cavalry pricing discussion to a new thread?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Do you want me to move the cavalry pricing discussion to a new thread?

Maybe split it off into the 3.0 edu discussion thread if that is possible. That would be helpful. But then again, this isn't my thread

[TheShakAttack]

Lol, this part is fine, since Robin brings up a legitimate point +7 armor costs only 300 mnai- possible costing error? Esp since post marian and imperial romans get a cav cost penalty (increase) iirc. We should however note that the documentation for costing is not up-to-date nor does it include an example of how costing is worked out. I will post a request for this in other thread.

It's the "these guys are too OP" and should be changed (mostly if not purely) for gameplay reasons that doesn't really fit scope of this thread.

[Kival]

Okay I'll check their costs but I'm quite sure the costs for them are calculated correctly. Note: Iberi cursis are one tier higher unit, that's why they cost more.

Relatively to the iberian light cav the iberian auxilariy seem's to be priced correctly. Chainmail + metal helmet cost 0,75 points in the system. Multiplied by 6,225 and 60 it's 280. Bringing in the 5 % additional cost for marian cav we land somewhere near 300. Though I'm not able at all to recalculate the absolute price of cav units. Theis seems to be a hidden factor not mentioned in the documentaiton.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Let's compare the Germanic Auxiliary cav which cost 2666 to the mercenary German cav which costs 2292. Difference is +2 armor and +2 morale for auxiliary version and yet the difference in price is larger than +7 armor of the Hispanic Auxilia. I'm not so sure the 2 extra morale points are worth more than +5 armor...
In my opinion, armor is the single most important stat in game, especially once fear units are removed. I'm a little unclear on how the costs are determined so maybe someone can help me out here.

[Kival]

In this special case I've no idea how the price of the germanic auxilariy is determined. The price increase is obviously not heavily based on the armour. 5 Armour does not cost much however it is determined. The morale increase is not specified in the Documentation.

In general morale if you did not get it by some unknown modifcation is based on the tier of the unit. The tier of the unit is normally the strongest price defining factor.

[Lazy O]

In short, they are overpriced :D

[Arjos]

Doesn't the cost of those units reflect as I said the more resources available to the SPQR? And by opposite the extreme luxury that cavalry was for the Swebozez?

[Kival]

In short, they are overpriced :D

No, I can't say that.

Fix proposals:

- Mardian Archers need a price fix (including accuracy bonus of one level): 992 mnai.
- Speutagardaz need to get +1 Att/+1 Def. They lost them, when they became phalangitai.
- Fist marian cohot needs a price fix (including their stamina bonus, which is not applicated at the moment): 2677