Crusader Kings II

[Greyblades]

Ok now my saves are crashing frequently, lovely.

Before that my vassals kept charging into uinwinnable rebellions of independance and usurping eachother's titles and generally making a mess of things for no blasted reason.

[Chaotix]

Ok now my saves are crashing frequently, lovely.

Before that my vassals kept charging into uinwinnable rebellions of independance and usurping eachother's titles and generally making a mess of things for no blasted reason.

That is very strange.

Are you patched up to 1.08?

I've been playing since 1.03 and I haven't had a single crash yet.

As for the vassals - if you let them have too much power, they will do that. Generally the rule I follow is to try and keep them all separated into their respective duchies and keep crown authority at medium so they don't mess with each other.

[Greyblades]

It may have something in relation with the fact that my vassals are fighting eachother regardless of me having medium crown authority. I think I shall reinstall it, see if it gets fixed.

[Monk]

It may have something in relation with the fact that my vassals are fighting eachother regardless of me having medium crown authority. I think I shall reinstall it, see if it gets fixed.

Areas outside of the de jure territory for a title can ignore the crown laws associated with it. Characters landed in de jure England ignore the laws associated with the Kingdom of France, even if one character holds both the kingdoms of England and France. The characters in england only respond to the laws of England.

Vassals may also always declare war to overthrow a liege regardless of crown law and will do that from time to time. This is why it's always a good idea to put an end to "fabricate claim" plots of lower vassals, as if a count gets a claim on the duke title he is a vassal to, he will start a war for control of the duchy. Even though the fight is effectively two social tiers down from you as the ruler, it still is incredibly annoying.

[rickinator9]

1.09 and The Republic are coming out today. Along with it comes the obligatory Mediterranian portraits and a song pack.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I tried playing this game and has no idea what was going on. I'm fine with paradox games like EU, Victoria etc, but I have no idea what to do with this.

From what I understand it is less about building a strong faction and more about hoping that your individual gets to hold strong positions. Doesn't seem that fun...

[Monk]

From what I understand it is less about building a strong faction and more about hoping that your individual gets to hold strong positions. Doesn't seem that fun...

Not hoping, no. There's random elements in the game like the fabrication of false claims, or the plots to kill someone, but that's about it. Combat is a little dice rollish too but EU3 has that in spades. You are right that CK2 is focused on dynastic and character management rather than factional leadership. In EU3 what is a slider position or an abstract concept is simulated by the relation system between characters. It's not hard to understand why your spynet isn't catching plots when your spymaster has -100 relations to you and is plotting to kill you.

You can still do the typical EU map painting and blob style gameplay but you have to approach it in a much different way in CK2. You have to align marriages in a smart and strategic way to build claims on titles. You need to keep an eye on potential claimants popping up, both who want your titles, and those who want your enemy's titles. You need to quell imbeciles within your family, and make sure your succession laws don't dictate that your empire is handed over to an idiot who'll ruin 200 years of hard work. You need to manage vassals and ensure that none of them are growing too powerful, balancing power internally between all of the characters beneath you.

You need to do that, all while keeping foreign powers at bay by ensuring your military and economic strength have been growing steadily. There is much more to the game than simply hoping you get lucky, though, a little luck never hurt.

CK2 is what you get when you cross a grand strategy game with an RPG experience. No it's not for everyone. Yes it is the shallowest of all of the "big" Paradox's games*, but it's still much deeper than you're giving it credit for.




*CK2 is the simplest and probably easiest to learn next to eu3. EU3 has a much broader scope and a lot more concepts to get used to, but i'd almost rank them the same in their difficulty. Vickie 2 is next with it's complex economy systems, events, definitely a much more challenging game.

And finally there's HOI3 which is just 'dear god what are you doing?' Similiar to EVE online with a learning curve like a cliff edge.

[Beskar]

*CK2 is the simplest and probably easiest to learn next to eu3. EU3 has a much broader scope and a lot more concepts to get used to, but i'd almost rank them the same in their difficulty. Vickie 2 is next with it's complex economy systems, events, definitely a much more challenging game.

And finally there's HOI3 which is just 'dear god what are you doing?' Similiar to EVE online with a learning curve like a cliff edge.

I disagree, EU3 is the 'easiest' by miles though CK2 is the most fun. Vicky is like EU3 but with "We can build factories!" eco/pop game and HOI3 is pretty much "I have 100000 men in 1000 territories, I will slap it on AI controlled, too much micromanagement".

[Monk]

I disagree, EU3 is the 'easiest' by miles though CK2 is the most fun.

I disagree with the first part, but agree very much with the second.

To me, CK2 was worlds easier to get into than EU3 was. Though it's hard to say if I enjoyed that ease of transition for the former because I had already played grand strategy before.

[Beskar]

1.09 and The Republic are coming out today. Along with it comes the obligatory Mediterranian portraits and a song pack.

1.09 is out, no dlc on sale at the moment though.

I disagree with the first part

This is why: In short, everything which is in EU3 is in CK2 and is taken to the next level and made more complicated.

Relationships with other nations? Has to be done through marriage and other such ties, no "offer alliance" button. It also has inter-faction relations too. Very relationship based.

Technology? EU3 'I got a slider and invest in tech money funnel'. CK2 'I accelerate certain aspects of technology as a focus over time for meagre gains. No 'fast track' technology. Lots of variations and not blanket increases like EU3.

Armies? "I will build 6000 men, 4000 horses, here is my army stack. They auto-refresh in the field". CK2 has levies which requires pulling together from other territories and your relationship with your vassals affects how many men and which individual units. There is now retinue to content with and there are mercs which the AI can also use, which makes Venice for example able to beat large duchies even though it is an OPM. Armies don't auto-refresh so have to be regathered from the source, and they don't refresh when they have men summoned in the field...

Heirs? EU3: some guy with a random name just takes over with hardly any real effects. CK2: "I just lost half my kingdom!" "My vassals are all rebelling!" "Some one else won the election!" etc

Trade? EU3: I can have a centre of trade or send merchants! Ck2: New DLC just added Trade in the game at a more complex level.

[Monk]

Hmm. Interesting.

I was going to write a response but along the way I realized that being more difficult doesn't exactly mean more complex. Take the EU3 war exhaustion system and compare it to the "levies raised too long" penalty in CK2 for instance. The former is something the player has to grin and bear, and is an abstract modifier applied to various levels of your society. War Exhaustion is bad because revolt risk rises, morale drops and your recruiting slows down. How do you combat it? End the war. That's it. Either that or get lucky with some events that give you free negative war exhaustion

Compared to CK2's vassal penalty for using levies for extended periods - what happens? People start to hate you. Revolt risk rises, plots begin to form, and now after LOR factions begin to form to directly weaken your administration's power, not just seek independence.

CK2's system is actually more complex and requires more player involvement than EU3's, but does it in a way that is, i think, much easier to manage since everything is still in the player's direct control. I can bribe or kill faction leaders, send distant cousins to tutor with vassals to remind them of my trust, award honorary titles, or transfer de jure baronies that I may be in control of that I shouldn't be (fulfilling a de jure vassal transfer is an instant 80 relations).

Both systems accomplish very similar things but CK2's allows for way more management and gameplay opportunities than the abstract modifier, and it's something I hadn't consciously realized until now. And surprisingly you're absolutely right about the Trade system, which until recently was something that EU3 had that CK2 simply didn't. The Trading Post mechanics from The Republic are surprisingly well developed, tying into the plot, retinue and levy systems in ways that I really did not expect. The system allows you to expand your power logically and in a very hands on way, rather than EU3's very abstract merchant/CoT mechanic.

I think you're right, EU3 is definitely a less complex game despite being a much more traditional grand strategy and featuring a much broader scope.

[Arjos]

From what I understand it is less about building a strong faction and more about hoping that your individual gets to hold strong positions.

You can build a strong faction, by playing as an independet ruler. And you can scheme for higher positions, by being a vassal.

Everyone is happy :P

[Beskar]

I like the changes the patch brought.

Not so impressed with republics, however.

[Monk]

I like the changes the patch brought.

Not so impressed with republics, however.

They are certainly different. I enjoy the different style they bring to the table but overall they are not as interesting as feudal gameplay, it's true. The dynastic management is very watered down and almost automated so that you can focus on building your finances and trade empire, which is a shame because dynasties are more than half the fun of the game. I find them enjoyable in their own ways but as I said, not as much as the base game.

Also, it would seem there are some Deep Space Nine fans at Paradox:



Any self respecting businessman should know them all by heart: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition

[The Stranger]

anyone trying the GoT mod? it looks quite awesome :D i just started my first campaign

[Monk]

anyone trying the GoT mod? it looks quite awesome :D i just started my first campaign

Eh. The GoT mod seems more about managing your character and the novelty of the setting rather than actually building claims and advancing your position of power. It's fun to check out but I don't know, not something I can play much of on a regular basis. Plus there's so much incest that after a while your average character health is going to eventually get super low.

[Chaotix]

Eh. The GoT mod seems more about managing your character and the novelty of the setting rather than actually building claims and advancing your position of power. It's fun to check out but I don't know, not something I can play much of on a regular basis. Plus there's so much incest that after a while your average character health is going to eventually get super low.

I agree.

It is a super-cool setup and very fun to look at/explore, but there's not much to do in it.

Starting at either Robert's Rebellion or Clash of Kings is fun to fight the war and make it go your own way instead of the way it should, but after that you can really just sit and wait for your characters to die. Once I'm dealing with a new generation of original characters not from the books, I find it difficult to keep interested.

That said, it's still worth a look if you've ever seen or read Game of Thrones.

[The Stranger]

Eh. The GoT mod seems more about managing your character and the novelty of the setting rather than actually building claims and advancing your position of power. It's fun to check out but I don't know, not something I can play much of on a regular basis. Plus there's so much incest that after a while your average character health is going to eventually get super low.

:P you dont have to play the dragonriders you know

but ye i think i get what you mean, its more about the scenario's then really playing out the long game, but i was never one for that anyway :S i can never control my conquering spree

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Patch coming tomorrow:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...s-changelog%29

Lots of bug fixes (none I really noticed) plus some tweaks to how the Republics behave (including making other families build stuff in their palace).

[Monk]

Patch coming tomorrow:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...s-changelog%29

Lots of bug fixes (none I really noticed) plus some tweaks to how the Republics behave (including making other families build stuff in their palace).

Beaten to it! Extensive bug squasher which, among other things, fixes a really nasty Tanistry bug that could cause instant game over. There is also a change to the Muslim Invasion CB which requires you to border the kingdom in question, or have a county in the de jure territory already. This won't be a huge deterrent to players looking to abuse that CB (as there are numerous work arounds I can think of), but it SHOULD stop the AI Fatimids from invading Greece/Italy at the start of the game in vanilla. Great change.

[Monk]

Rev up those conspiracy theories, because I am sure hungry for speculation!

Paradox has been releasing incremental hints about their next official expansion for CK2. (You can read the third thread at this link) Each day, a bit more of the picture is revealed. Most people have this pegged for the long hinted pagan/norse DLC as there seems to be the top of a Norse themed helmet in part of the third reveal. No official word thus far, just the tease. What could it be?

But wait! There's more! Are you getting tired of CK2? Want to maybe check out another game from the Paradox Library? Something is brewing on the Vickie II forums. A second expansion for the Victorian themed grand strategy is rumored to be in development. (link to the tease is here) Again, no official word, just the horrible tease. Either way, looks interesting.

[rickinator9]

Paradox has been releasing incremental hints about their next official expansion for CK2. (You can read the third thread at this link) Each day, a bit more of the picture is revealed. Most people have this pegged for the long hinted pagan/norse DLC as there seems to be the top of a Norse themed helmet in part of the third reveal. No official word thus far, just the tease. What could it be?

But wait! There's more! Are you getting tired of CK2? Want to maybe check out another game from the Paradox Library? Something is brewing on the Vickie II forums. A second expansion for the Victorian themed grand strategy is rumored to be in development. (link to the tease is here) Again, no official word, just the horrible tease. Either way, looks interesting.

I'm pretty sure it's a longboat. If you look at the upper-left corner, you can see something what looks like the front of one of these. In the lower-left corner, you can see a piece of wood. That could be a paddle. So it's either a pagan DLC or a DLC that goes back in time, to the Viking ages.

[Monk]

New DLC confirmed: Crusader Kings II: Old Gods.

http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/cr...about_game-tab

Feature list:

• Play as a Pagan chieftain and ravage your weak neighbors. If you remain at peace for too long, your people will grow restless...
• The new earliest start date is 867 AD: The Viking Rurik has founded the kingdom of Rus and the Great Heathen Army under the sons of Ragnar Lodbrok rampages through England.
• Play as a Zoroastrian lord and restore your ancient religion to prominence.
• Adventurers: Landless characters can gather armies and go off to carve out new realms on their own.
• Prepared Invasions: Declare your intention to invade and watch your armies grow with adventurers and restless warriors, but don't wait too long to start your war or it might all fall apart...
• Rebels with a Cause: Rebels are no longer a faceless menace – they are now led by characters with agendas.
• Loot and pillage provinces. Burn down their cities and take their gold!
• Sacrifice to Odin at the great Blot!
• Christians and Muslims can dispatch missions to convert the depraved heathens.
• New beautiful Pagan interface skin.
• New events and decisions: berserkers, sejdr, curses, omens, divinations, runestones and much more.

All of them are amazing, but these in particular?

The new earliest start date is 867 AD: The Viking Rurik has founded the kingdom of Rus and the Great Heathen Army under the sons of Ragnar Lodbrok rampages through England.

Adventurers: Landless characters can gather armies and go off to carve out new realms on their own.

Prepared Invasions: Declare your intention to invade and watch your armies grow with adventurers and restless warriors, but don't wait too long to start your war or it might all fall apart..

Play as a Zoroastrian lord and restore your ancient religion to prominence.

Rebels with a Cause: Rebels are no longer a faceless menace – they are now led by characters with agendas.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The new DLC is going to release in Q2 2013. This spring: It's time.

Unfortunately, after doing some research it looks like Paradox wont allow you to actually play as the adventurers. They are AI controlled. A bit of a let down, honestly! But it's an interesting feature nonetheless and I look forward to seeing it in action.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

This game gets better and better with every DLC(except that Aztec one)!

[rickinator9]

I heard there's only the bookmark for 867 AD. You can't select other dates earlier than 1066, as that would be too much work for one DLC.

[Monk]

I heard there's only the bookmark for 867 AD. You can't select other dates earlier than 1066, as that would be too much work for one DLC.

Yeah it's been confirmed by one of the devs. It's disappointing certainly but understandable to some extent. The base game has just under 300 years of history in it you are able to pick through with relative accuracy. If they were to tackle researching 867 - 1066 they'd be looking at a similar research time that they put themselves through for the full game at launch. It's probably not something they are eager to launch into and still keep a timely release date.

So long as they go all out making 867 really fleshed out I won't miss the ability to time machine between the two bookmarks.

[rickinator9]

Not to mention there will certainly be mods that bridge the gap.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

This is going to be amazing

[Beskar]

New DLC confirmed: Crusader Kings II: Old Gods.

[komnenos]

Excuse me. I have a question about legacy of Rome. I'm playing Byzantine Empire but I can't still request invasion for any countries.why?