Crusader Kings II Challenge - An Empire Divided

[Monk]

anyway thanks Monk for the challenge, i actually learned quite alot by playing it! and it was great fun.

perhaps next one will be the Habsburgers? :P or Spain or Italy :O so many choices ahah

Glad you enjoyed yourself Stranger. I've already got the next one in mind but it will depend heavily on how interest holds in this current game, whether or not it will happen.

How about the varangians post-patch? Should we mod the numbers of the varangians or not?

I don't know. How much does it affect the overall balance of the 1205 start date? I'm hesitant to allow any modding other than factions playable but I'm open to player feedback.

Assuming that your save games have survived the transition from 1.05c to 1.05d you can continue playing them. Mine did not, but some are reporting theirs are fine, so hope for the best I suppose.

[rickinator9]

Well, the ones who used them pre-patch do have an advantage.

As for the next challenge, will we leave the byzantines or do they still deserve attention?

[Monk]

Well, the ones who used them pre-patch do have an advantage.

I would need to know the strength of the varangians at the 1205 start date pre 1.05d compared to their post nerf strength before i would feel comfortable opening that particular flood gate. But I understand the point and it's a valid one. Any other examples of modding I won't be considering, however.

As for the next challenge, will we leave the byzantines or do they still deserve attention?

Sorry, it's a secret to everybody. As i said it depends on the overall interest once this challenge concludes.

[The Stranger]

it shouldnt matter for the byzantines in future challanges and i doubt it barely affects their capability. however ricki is right that it does give the people who started pre 1.05d an advantage over who starts now (how minor this is even)

they say the varangians got halved but its more like 1/3rd got knocked off. i never really needed them but its still cheap and good soldiers and whether you get 5k or 3k does make a difference in a battle and we all know that how the battle systems works here, its a slope and once you get that advantage roling its hard to stop.

so for purpose of the challenge i would reset the changes of the crown authority and varangians. on the other hand, i doubt the varangians really make a difference, crown authority might tho, but i dont know if its good or worse :P some people swear for medium CA on the other hand you cant get primogeniture.

[Arjos]

BTW about the varangian guard, it's true that their are reduced in number, but the cost was reduced aswell...
It's still balanced imo...

What might be more pressing is that save game compatibility, I dunno, but some people might have limited hours and the patch could have ruined their schedule, if it corrupted the save file...

[The Stranger]

true (though that actually happens automatically, if you now would mod the varangians to double their size it would also increase their cost)

lowered CA does make a difference tho (but i dont know if its for better or worse)

isnt it possible to return to patch 1.05c? or whatever patch they were playing on?


what is worse, 1.05d seems to have broken claim wars -_-

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...n-Independence

tho now that i think of it, for me its still working XD or its working differently and i got apparantly what i have been doing with claimants from egypt and hungary shouldnt work

[Monk]

BTW about the varangian guard, it's true that their are reduced in number, but the cost was reduced aswell...
It's still balanced imo...

What might be more pressing is that save game compatibility, I dunno, but some people might have limited hours and the patch could have ruined their schedule, if it corrupted the save file...

Some save games definitly got broken. My further Rus save wouldn't load correctly but I was able to salvage it by reloading an older autosave. I wish i knew what specifically caused the instability moving across versions, because i'd share it.

When it comes down to it on the VG issue, I'll be honest in that it seems (to me) such a small factor that it's almost not worth worrying about. But if you want my honest opinion and by the interpretation of the rules, rule 10.1 says that hotfix version does not matter. So if you want to mod the VG to be in line with their previous 1.05d balance I am personally fine with it.

However, this means you will be held accountable if you tamper with them and increase their strength beyond that which was their 1.05c balance. In that event your entry would be immediately disqualified.

isnt it possible to return to patch 1.05c? or whatever patch they were playing on?

Not if you use steam in which case it would be a gigantic hassle.

what is worse, 1.05d seems to have broken claim wars -_-

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...n-Independence

tho now that i think of it, for me its still working XD or its working differently and i got apparantly what i have been doing with claimants from egypt and hungary shouldnt work

This challenge has exposed a lot of gaps in the initial rule set up which I thought was pretty extensive. If we do another we'll be retuning things much more to provide more clarifications and less grey areas when it comes to game mechanics.

[The Stranger]

well it was a known loophole and what they did to it now is not really working either, because if i press a vassal claim for someone who has been in the realm for generations he will also become independent which is just downright stupid. but ye, pressing kingdom tier claims as an emperor is crazy easy now too, you can basically give the claimant a barony and press his claim and he will become your vassal (which is what i did a few times) and gain huge strokes of land.

they need to find a balance, perhaps a cool off factor of a few years to ensure that you cannot just invite claimants and press their claims to gain land but that you can press claims for those who have already been your vassals for some time

[Monk]

well it was a known loophole and what they did to it now is not really working either, because if i press a vassal claim for someone who has been in the realm for generations he will also become independent which is just downright stupid. but ye, pressing kingdom tier claims as an emperor is crazy easy now too, you can basically give the claimant a barony and press his claim and he will become your vassal (which is what i did a few times) and gain huge strokes of land.

they need to find a balance, perhaps a cool off factor of a few years to ensure that you cannot just invite claimants and press their claims to gain land but that you can press claims for those who have already been your vassals for some time

I agree. Paradox has been hit or miss with their patches thus far. But I do enjoy the support they are giving CKII. I hope it continues and they find that balance like you say.

[The Stranger]

yes but 1.05d is unplayable for this challenge (and for me as a whole now), it has broken a core mechanic for the challenge (and for me also for the game).

can follow the discussion here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...t-independence

i really recommend ppl who want to play it to go back to 1.05c or sumthing.

[rickinator9]

I guess no challenging for me then. No way you can be competitive without those claim wars.

[The Stranger]

or just play it
and then mod it so he becomes ur vassal? u understand the trick i want to know if u can be faster than i was

[Monk]

It feels like we've run out of Steam (audience groans)

With patch 1.05e most of the big bugs of CKII's content patch have been ironed out, though some serious balance changes were introduced that have changed the landscape for this challenge a bit. If you haven't been following you'll be happy to know claim wars have been fixed, as well as a number of smaller oddities that could've really ruined your game experience. All gone! There's never been a better time to give this a shot!

We're headed into the third weekend soon. Is anyone still attempting this challenge? I must admit it was quite entertaining watching the games unfold as well as very educational. I've learned quite a bit from watching my fellow forum members push the game to its limit.

[The Stranger]

rickinator is still trying! and i think he will be set for the 2nd time if he attempts to finish!

i hope more people try because i want a second challenge!



(currently im trying to achieve world domination by putting my family on every throne in the world :P i got them in Jerusalem, Combined crown of Sweden and Norway, Combined crown of Ireland and Wales, and I myself own Spain, Italy, Sicily and the North African Kingdoms. Soon the King of Ireland and Wales' heir will also inherit the kingdom of Britannia if all goes well.)

[rickinator9]

I'm still trying. Last time Rum just flew out of my grasp and I raged!

It's difficult to choose between this game and company of heroes.

[The Stranger]

do the challenge please!!!! i pwomise ill install CoH and pwn your ass later! does anyone have aoe3?

[Monk]

Stranger is almost desperate for someone to attempt to beat his time. Who could blame him? This is a lot of fun.

I'm still trying. Last time Rum just flew out of my grasp and I raged!

I know that feeling all too well rick.

[Ishmael]

I'm not really going for the challenge, as I know I have no hope of beating the achievements of the others here, but I've been trying a game as the Byzantine Empire in between playing as Ireland. I got bogged down in a war with Rum over some minor province, so I has to cut my losses there and sue for a white peace. On the plus side, due to tragic simultaneous accidents involving the young Latin Emperor and his two brothers, my heir is now betrothed to the under-age ruler of the Latin Empire. One flank secured, a powerful ally gained, and I should nearly double my territory when my heir's son inherits (a while away yet, but still).

I've been having fun playing as an absolute tyrant, using the method outlined here - it was difficult to get the initial Orthodox Pope (I forget his title) on my side, but his successor proved very willing to support me. Perhaps it was because I decided to cut costs by having the execution of his predecessor and his indoctrination at the same time and in the same venue .

[The Stranger]

you know you can do it in 1000 years and you would still be 3rd :P

[rickinator9]

I think I'm going through with this game. I have Rum and armenia now. I can probably beat Arjos off 2nd place.

[Monk]

This will be the final reminder:

One week is all that remains! One prize slot is, as of this posting, still open.

[rickinator9]

Yeah, I was on it, but I incidentally began on 14 sept 1205

[The Stranger]

how long u been playing before you found out? :P

[rickinator9]

how long u been playing before you found out? :P

I had taken Rum and bulgaria. I already found it weird that the Latin emperor had no daughters...

[scottishranger]

Ill post an update in a bit. Made some nice progress but havent had a lot of time to play!

[rickinator9]

I think I'm not gonna enter. I tried to get it yesterday, but after my plan to take Rum failed, I just resigned.

[The Stranger]

aw cmon :P you got free price just for the grabs all you gotta do is finish it lol :S

i dont understand people these days... what world do we live in when free is no longer good enough

oh and ofcourse it is fun XD

[Monk]

It's over!

Ah what a wild ride it was. One month, five hotfixes and countless mini-aars. Stories of success and stories of failure, as well as stories of rage! I think we've seen it all in this challenge and I want to personally thank each and every member who took part. This was a lot of fun to watch from the outside, and it's not an exageration to say I learned a lot about CKII from seeing how other people played.

The clock has struck midnight in the GMT time zone which means, dear friends, our wonderful challenge has met it's end. The Final player standings are:

FINAL CHALLENGE RANKINGS

Player name. Faction Choice. Type of Victory (complete restoration or partial). Year of completion.

1. The Stranger - The Byzantine Empire - Full De Jure Victory - 1236
2. Arjos - Sultanate of Rum - Full De Jure Victory - 1304


All other participants have sadly been ranked with Did Not Finish. I will be in contact with both winners very shortly. I'd like to open the thread to feedback from members. Did you enjoy this challenge? What about it did you like best? What do you think we could have improved on? I'm very interested to hear your opinions.

Once again, very well done to our two winners, and a valiant effort shown by everyone who entered! Until next time, keep plotting!

[Arjos]

- The challenge was very enjoyable, I usually get bored when I have too many vassals and no imperial title XD
- Starting in 1205 was quite fun, always played from 1066 and having to face bigger armies was interesting, especially the AIs joining wars to help eachother!
- Dunno about improvement, maybe more specific conditions or "economic/political" achievements, but I'm just that kind of "civilization" player :)

[The Stranger]

Hehe, ye I almost always start in 1066 (after the Conquerer took England) and it was definitly fun to start in 1205! Artrition was a pain in the ass for the first time also and I actually had to siege because all the forts had like 2k garrison...

I really enjoyed the guidelines, normally I just conquer stuff, I get whatever I can. Though lately intead of trying to conquer things for myself I've been putting my dynasty members in rule somehwere. Just too bad that I cant really finish a game because of patches :S I have been thinking, it might be cool to similulate the habsburgers in some sort, you have to become all powerfull by ways of intrigue and marriage, some rules could be no or limited military conquest for titles, can only press dejure claims (like you can't press claim for kingdom of france but once you have it you can press claim for normandy. holy wars are allowed in italy and iberia and you can crusade. it doesnt matter if the main branch holds the lands as long as it is of your dynasty! and then I guess we can do it like the historical habsburg empire or near enough, or just a cap of like 800 realm size including a certain number of titles, like 2 ducal titles 3 king titles 1 empire title or something.

But ye an idea for another challenge might be a more dynasty based challenge instead of a military one (though I learned alot about pressing claims and sometimes I really had to do some funny stuff such as this: he married a courtier to a princess of Egypt, then killed the courtier to widow the princess and matrilinially married a male egyptian claimant to the egyptian princess. He gave this claimant the Duchy of Krete and pressed his claim for Egypt, thus adding Egypt to the empire.

TBH I felt kinda good when it worked XD


also as tip for next challenge is to not make the results open, i think it can work counter effective for some people, if they think they cant beat the challenge they wont try. so just say someone finished it but dont say what time :)