EB2 Dev Blog discussion

[nazgool]

Hello,

Topic founded on the discussion of Dev Blog :)

In my opinion this Dev Blog is what we were missing all this time.
Great units cards, especially Nabatean Early Lancer and Machimoi Phalangitai.
I'm really looking forward to next note :)

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I wonder though. Was the A-Team a popular theater show in Ptolemaic Egypt?

[JMRC]

I don't understand what kind of question is that. Is it related to the Dev Blog? If not, then please change it to something meaningful or I will delete it because this is meant to be a serious discussion thread and not a circus for clowns.

EDIT: It seems the question was related to the Dev Blog. Good to know.

[Arjos]

The Erínamesh ana-Arabim look great too!
BTW are the machimoi spearmen now or he's simply holding the javelin?

[Brennus]

JMRC, I think Sir Robin was alluding to the fact he loves it when a plan comes together.

[Tux]

The Erínamesh ana-Arabim look great too!
BTW are the machimoi spearmen now or he's simply holding the javelin?

We can't have swords and spears in the same unit, M2TW engine limitation.

[sephwhite]

JMRC, I think Sir Robin was alluding to the fact he loves it when a plan comes together.

I think it's due to Mr T being on the shield :)

[Brennus]

Ah, touché!

[Moros]

I think it's due to Mr T being on the shield :)

Apparantly Mr. T took his look from Bes, an Egyptian protector God.

[JMRC]

We can't have swords and spears in the same unit, M2TW engine limitation.

Just a small clarification, to avoid some confusion: the engine allows having spears and swords in the same unit, but doesn't deal very well with it. He runs with one weapon, then switches to charge with the other, then switches again during the melee. So, we avoid this combination when we need a real spearmen unit. Still, we have a few cases where we kept the overhand spear and the sword in the same unit.

[rickinator9]

Just a small clarification, to avoid some confusion: the engine allows having spears and swords in the same unit, but doesn't deal very well with it. He runs with one weapon, then switches to charge with the other, then switches again during the melee. So, we avoid this combination when we need a real spearmen unit. Still, we have a few cases where we kept the overhand spear and the sword in the same unit.

Will the javelin-throw-before-charging move still work?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Apparantly Mr. T took his look from Bes, an Egyptian protector God.

Sorry JMRC but I was joking about it since I'd never seen a symbol like that. Never heard of this god, I'll have to look him up. Thanks Moros!

Also the East Arabian Spearmen among others look fantastic!

Just a small clarification, to avoid some confusion: the engine allows having spears and swords in the same unit, but doesn't deal very well with it. He runs with one weapon, then switches to charge with the other, then switches again during the melee. So, we avoid this combination when we need a real spearmen unit. Still, we have a few cases where we kept the overhand spear and the sword in the same unit.

This sounds very similar, if not identical, to the way RTW's engine handles such units. For example, Solduros or Hypaspistai.

[Blxz]

Nice, this is just what I was looking for. Regular mini-updates that don't require the huge masses of words and work that go into a standard EB update. Hope to see much more of this in the coming weeks. Good idea to whoever thought it up.

[Kival]

Wow! The sneak peaks look amazing (again) and the amount of work done is incredible.

[nazgool]

Wow, this Hoplitai Epilektoi are amaizing. Really good stuff :D

[DaciaJC]

If you have a 1080p version of this, I'd love to set it as my desktop background. :D

[Arjos]

In the third pic of the new sneak (lol Reek rhyme XD), do the sarissa crisscross, due to the lack of a secondary weapon?

If so, I guess they are even more powerful from the front now :P

[Velho]

True arjos and they look awesome just the detail on them

Have to say history really comes to alive

Just looking the sarissa wall it seems so inpassable and makes me think that i would not charge that.

[JMRC]

In the third pic of the new sneak (lol Reek rhyme XD), do the sarissa crisscross, due to the lack of a secondary weapon?

If so, I guess they are even more powerful from the front now :P

Yes to both questions.

[Arjos]

Man those events and the tribal system are sexy!

I also love the buildings for the various tribes: can't wait to help some and prevent the extinction of my favourites :P
We got to see Bibracte ^^
Poor Bithynioi btw XD

[Shadowwalker]

It has been a while since I posted here in the EB/EBII forums, I have been following your progress closely though since this is still the mod I'm looking forward to the most (by far).

I remember posting my expectations for the mod a while back and mentioning there that I hope for the extensive use of the event mechanic introduced by MII TW, perhaps even a way to re-introduce the "Glorious Achievements" mechanic from MTW (my favourite feature from that game). Seems you are on your way to do exactly that, can't thank you enough for this.

That tribal system you just previewed will ensure that playing one of those factions will be so much more complex and rewarding.
I'd like to ask a few questions about that system though.

(1) Reading the preview about the system somehow gave me the idea that it may well be possible for a defensive/peaceful player (that, for example, doesn't expand much after initial consolidation) to not have/get any chieftains. Did I misunderstood something there or will it indeed be possible to extinct your own faction just because you don't fight enough battles and therefore get no chieftains at all anymore?

(2) Am I right to assume that the three factions you mentioned were only examples and that the system is used for Arverni, Pritanoi, Boii, Getai etc as well? And what about Massylia? The preview for them had plenty of tribes/ethnicities as well, will they get a similar system?

(3) Is it safe to assume that the tribal buildings will affect the availability/replenishment rates for certain units as well? Not in the initial release (since there may just not be enough units) but perhaps in a later version?

(4) I remember reading that the initial release will feature "only" a basic trait/ancillaries system, does this mean that the tribal system will be implemented in a later release only or will it work with the "basic" trait/ancillary system too?



Something different: just have to mention that the campaign map (as far as it has been revealed so far) looks ... well, "breathtaking" would be an understatement in my opinion. I am quite obsessed about campaign map eyecandy and the available screens of your map make me jawdrop over and over again.

And the few examples of events you posted at the end of the preview make me drool, seriously.

Anyway - I have said it a few times already: Take your time, EB Team. I will wait patiently for a few years more if necessary.
The more screenshots you show and the more features/systems you reveal the more I'm sure that EBII will be the definite mod for MII TW.


Oh one thing:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

May I ask for a selected few building icons (not the stratmap models but the actual icons you see when you either check a settlement or choose a building option) for one of the next sneak peeks please?
Would love to see that.

[LusitanianWolf]

Many thanks you for the updates and the eyecandy! The tribal system realy sound interesting! Will there be a chance to unsatisfied tribes to rebel? I'm realy looking foward to see mechanics that will make large empires to become less stable, specialy when made from factions that are more like tribal confederacies. More internal struggle and less stack spaming, I hope :)

[Shadowwalker]

I just realized that 2 of my questions above are already answered in your post over at the TWCenter, JMRC.

Nice to see a confirmation that this system will (eventually) work in a unique way for every fitting faction.
And even better to hear that defending your settlements has more reasons now than just "Damn! I'll lose income and perhaps a strategic position."

*rubs hands in anticipation*

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Yep, like others, the more I see the more wowed I am, and the more I want it NOW. However, there is something to be said for having little snippets like this to help build the antici pation.

Reading through some of the previews again, I'm looking forward to seeing how the outlying authority buildings will work with the central authority buildings. I like that the central authority buildings between the Romans and the Carthaginians offer different political structures to each other and trust that other factions will likewise be very different. As someone else asked, are there any plans for the 'tribal' system to be incorporated into more 'civilised' factions?

[JMRC]

(1) Reading the preview about the system somehow gave me the idea that it may well be possible for a defensive/peaceful player (that, for example, doesn't expand much after initial consolidation) to not have/get any chieftains. Did I misunderstood something there or will it indeed be possible to extinct your own faction just because you don't fight enough battles and therefore get no chieftains at all anymore?

The engine will not let you get "extinct". Even if the player doesn't have conditions to raise Chieftains, when the faction leader dies the engine will choose one general at random (not sure exactly what's the criteria if all generals have no Authority) to become the new faction leader. This happens because the Chieftain is a feature of the mod and not of the engine. Even with little expansion and with just 2 tribes it's possible to roleplay and have a competition between them to get a Chieftain and then getting the FL place. The generals can become Chieftains by winning difficult battles, even if they are not sieges (no expansion), since they gain points with that.

(2) Am I right to assume that the three factions you mentioned were only examples and that the system is used for Arverni, Pritanoi, Boii, Getai etc as well? And what about Massylia? The preview for them had plenty of tribes/ethnicities as well, will they get a similar system?

As you said, I've cleared this issue in another thread: all celtic, germanic and even some nomadic factions will have this system, each with its own specific variant.

(3) Is it safe to assume that the tribal buildings will affect the availability/replenishment rates for certain units as well? Not in the initial release (since there may just not be enough units) but perhaps in a later version?

Yes, but only for those which are specific to that tribe. In the 1st release we have a few tribe-specific units.

(4) I remember reading that the initial release will feature "only" a basic trait/ancillaries system, does this mean that the tribal system will be implemented in a later release only or will it work with the "basic" trait/ancillary system too?

The system gets into the 1st release and it requires extensive changes in the ethnicity traits. The "basic" is always a very abstract concept. :)

May I ask for a selected few building icons (not the stratmap models but the actual icons you see when you either check a settlement or choose a building option) for one of the next sneak peeks please? Would love to see that.

We are going to start posting screens of the campaign map, specially since we're almost finishing the non-character models.

Will there be a chance to unsatisfied tribes to rebel? I'm realy looking foward to see mechanics that will make large empires to become less stable, specialy when made from factions that are more like tribal confederacies. More internal struggle and less stack spaming, I hope :)

This is a very interesting question. Surely it can be done easily: the tribal building produces unrest when an "unsatisfaction" event is active AND the generals with that tribe's ethnicity acquire an "unsatisfaction" temporary trait which reduces their loyalty. The thing is what leads a tribe to become "unsatisfied"? Being in the lower rank of the Achievements, perhaps?
The idea is interesting, I'll think more about it. Thanks. :)

As someone else asked, are there any plans for the 'tribal' system to be incorporated into more 'civilised' factions?

The non-tribal factions have other mechanisms at their disposal: trading/settler colonies, cultural reforms, etc. There is still a lot of room for improvements, so we will get very cool features for the non-tribals.

[Shadowwalker]

Thank you for that detailed answer. Much appreciated.

[LusitanianWolf]

This is a very interesting question. Surely it can be done easily: the tribal building produces unrest when an "unsatisfaction" event is active AND the generals with that tribe's ethnicity acquire an "unsatisfaction" temporary trait which reduces their loyalty. The thing is what leads a tribe to become "unsatisfied"? Being in the lower rank of the Achievements, perhaps?
The idea is interesting, I'll think more about it. Thanks. :)

Nice =)
More reasons that could lead to tribes to rebel: Rivalry between tribes and chiftains (a new faction leader being from a hated tribe), the player ignoring that tribe and tribal leaders goals (ex: a very warlike chieftain being kept doing housekeeping instead if headchoping)), historicaly disloyal factions growing too much on power, not being politicaly represented by any general, allying with traditional enemies etc.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Thanks JMRC for your very detailed response.

This is a very interesting question. Surely it can be done easily: the tribal building produces unrest when an "unsatisfaction" event is active AND the generals with that tribe's ethnicity acquire an "unsatisfaction" temporary trait which reduces their loyalty. The thing is what leads a tribe to become "unsatisfied"? Being in the lower rank of the Achievements, perhaps?
The idea is interesting, I'll think more about it. Thanks. :)

Yes, I would have thought that never entering into any position of authority, always being the junior partner, might make a tribe a little ....resentful.

Looking forward to hearing more about the various game mechanics that are being implemented.

[moonburn]

on a new note i had assumed warhounds where out so ... what are the sauromtae doing riding them ?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

111 man horse archer units...(shudders...)