Syria

[Pannonian]

I say bring the boys home, and let the goods to do what mistakes they want without the Foreign Legion that could be better employed in restoring electricity

Isn't the Foreign Legion's traditional role to get killed in foreign adventures without risking the lives of French voters? Get them involved in bloody enough foreign wars, and you'll be evening up the German-French population ratio.

[Brenus]

“Isn't the Foreign Legion's traditional role to get killed in foreign adventures without risking the lives of French voters? Get them involved in bloody enough foreign wars, and you'll be evening up the German-French population ratio.”
It was. In fact, the Foreign Legion was created by the King to get read of immigrants… And it was not really popular as was completely useless (yes, even at these times)…

You are still living on old clichés pre and after WW2, about Germans (Pre: Anti-Nazi, after: former Nazi). And from when the French Government was shying away to spent the French Voters Blood (see WW1 and WW2 casualties list)? That is part of what left from the “bashing the French” campaign. The French do wars with foreigners… Yeah, right…

The French Foreign Legion (as there is a Spanish one, due to the gift from the French King to the Spanish King of half of the Legion), not being part of the “regular” French Army can be deployed without declaration of war and vote from the French Parliament… Reason why it still exist, probably… And now, the Legion is part of the French Culture, I suppose.
The Legion is the negative picture of the European Political Landscape: Italians, Germans around the WW2, Yugoslav in the 70, Brits, Americans and Irish in the 80, Yugoslav again in the 90…
I think it is the most filmed and romanticised unit in the World.

[Montmorency]

I think it is the most filmed and romanticised unit in the World.

US Marines beat them on that score.

You have to admit that the sheer senselessness of the Legion's ethics and deeds is awesome, in the old sense of the word.

As for the contemporary legion, my impression was that it's mostly composed of Latin-Americans and Eastern Europeans...

[Brenus]

“US Marines beat them on that score.” How and when?
When someone had his heart broken, does he join the US Marine? Nope. When you want to forget do you join the US Marines or the Legion? When Death wants to forget, did he join the Ktlachian Foreign Legion or the Klatchian Marine Corps? Did Indiana Jones join the US Marines (in the series)? Perhaps there are films and movies about the US Marines, but the Corps is not as romanticised as the Legion. You won’t find the equivalent of “Mon Légionnaire” song for the US Marines…
You might have more movies about US Marines but the Corps will still have to beat the Legion’s aura. Even foreign countries made movies about the Legion, only US does it for the US Marines…

[Greyblades]

The romanticisation of the US marines is only a phenomenon amoung their own countrymen, the legion is romantisized in all of europe and beyond.

[HoreTore]

What's hilarous is the number of Norwegians who join the Navy, thinking it's super-awesome because our names for "navy" and "marine" are the same("marinen").

Then they proceed to spend their conscript year on guard duty in front of a beached ship, occasionally getting to clean it....

[Pannonian]

“Isn't the Foreign Legion's traditional role to get killed in foreign adventures without risking the lives of French voters? Get them involved in bloody enough foreign wars, and you'll be evening up the German-French population ratio.”
It was. In fact, the Foreign Legion was created by the King to get read of immigrants… And it was not really popular as was completely useless (yes, even at these times)…

You are still living on old clichés pre and after WW2, about Germans (Pre: Anti-Nazi, after: former Nazi). And from when the French Government was shying away to spent the French Voters Blood (see WW1 and WW2 casualties list)? That is part of what left from the “bashing the French” campaign. The French do wars with foreigners… Yeah, right…

I was actually jokingly referring to the Legion's earliest days, when it was sent into Spain because the defence minister at the time (Soult?) saw it as a way to meet foreign policy commitments without upsetting the French voters. While later incarnations of the Legion weren't viewed quite so cynically as expendable cannon fodder, AFAIK they were still the front line in France's foreign adventures, probably for the same reason (the Legion can get sent anywhere without needing to consult too many bodies).

[Brenus]

“I was actually jokingly referring to the Legion's earliest days, when it was sent into Spain because the defence minister at the time (Soult?) saw it as a way to meet foreign policy commitments without upsetting the French voters.” Err, Soult (Napoleon -1815), Foreign Legion (King Louis Philip - 1831) so not possible. And when did Napoleon was afraid to spill the blood of the French (who were not voting at the time)?
You might mix-up with his nephew Napoleon III.

However, the “German” Legion was only after WW2. So I am not sure I buy your explanation. I am sure it was a joke, but, probably not knowingly, you used the “bash the French” rhetoric.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The Marines are romanticized for no good reason at all. Much to the chagrin of everyone in the far larger and more active Army. Can't stand em.

I have a close friend who has been preparing to join the marines for like...5 years now? He spent two years at community college because he said it would give him better opportunities in the military to have some education than just high school. While working his part time job, he has been physically training himself so he can excel in the actual military. When he took that test all recruits take to determine what they are suited for (Just googled it, the ASVAB test), he did well enough that he had options. He plans on making the military his career and staying for 25+ years.

So what does he do after all that planning and hard work? He ends up getting the urge to join the marines as a grunt. His military adviser (a recruiter he became good friends with I think) told him to rethink that decision. But nope. It HAS to be the marines. And he HAS to start out as a grunt.

[Pannonian]

“I was actually jokingly referring to the Legion's earliest days, when it was sent into Spain because the defence minister at the time (Soult?) saw it as a way to meet foreign policy commitments without upsetting the French voters.” Err, Soult (Napoleon -1815), Foreign Legion (King Louis Philip - 1831) so not possible. And when did Napoleon was afraid to spill the blood of the French (who were not voting at the time)?
You might mix-up with his nephew Napoleon III.

However, the “German” Legion was only after WW2. So I am not sure I buy your explanation. I am sure it was a joke, but, probably not knowingly, you used the “bash the French” rhetoric.

If it's bash the French, it was unknowing. The German bit was merely referring to the Legion's own preference, for a while, for Germans over other nationalities.

Just looking at the timelines, I could have remembered rightly after all. The Legion was sent to Spain in 1835 to join their war there, while Soult was Minister of War from 1830 to 1834.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Source

So, take your pick...

1) Israel's strikes are just what they are claimed to be, surgical efforts to remove weapons that threaten Israel's security.

2) Israel's limited efforts to ensure that Assad's government loses in the long run.

3) Israel's efforts as a proxy for US efforts to remove Assad from power without seeming to take sides in anothe arab conflict.

4) Provide you own alternative.


My current thoughts are a combo of 1 and 2 with the added benefit that Israel knows the US will be labeled as supporting the effort, at least on the arab street, edgin up the pressure for Obama to engage.

[Papewaio]

Seems pretty short term. Given their anti-missile batteries are pretty good.

Remove a possible small threat to unite multiple large ones.

[Fragony]

I have absolutely no idea, I follow the news but I have no idea what's real and what's not, or who is who. Supposedly it was a weapon transport from Iran that was bombed, but who knows

[Brenus]

Israel thinks the Islamists will succeed, so Israel remove weapons they will use or give or sell.

[Lemur]

Of the options given, I would seriously doubt #3. Israel isn't that kind of ally, for a variety of reasons.

[PanzerJaeger]

Despite what they say, Western governments, including Israel, want Assad to remain in power. If there was an ulterior motivation beyond the destruction of a weapons shipment, I wouldn't be surprised if it was to lend support to the government's narrative of an Israeli backed insurgency.

[HopAlongBunny]

Somewhat of all 3. It allows them to neutralize a threat at little cost, shades the relationship somewhat with Assad. Without declaring support for overthrow it gives Israel some credit with the rebel forces; might be important should the rebels win.

Israel serves notice that it can and will act if it's interests are at stake; if that also lends support to US aims to see Assad step down, so much the better.

[Rhyfelwyr]

It's such a bizarre web of alliances, who knows?

It's hardly in Israel's interests to support either side. While the FSA has secular elements within it, a victory for them would at best mean Islamists getting a lot of power and possibly a majority with a democratic set up. At worse, it could result in the Nusra Front and the more Islamist FSA elements creating a Salafist theocracy.

On the other hand, Assad who supports Hezbollah and pan-Arab nationalist movements.

So I'm not sure how to interpret Israel's actions. Maybe they are just going to use the instability to take potshots at their enemies while they can get away with it.

[Lemur]

By now I would think it's crystal clear that once a rebellion/revolution is in progress, you really, really don't get to decide how it plays out. Not if you're the US, the EU, Israel—frankly, not if you're anyone but one of the thousands of armed men and women on the ground.

We might be able to have a bit of say about whether Assad falls or not, but even there I suspect actors on the ground will have far more influence than anything the West can bring to bear.

[Fragony]

Despite what they say, Western governments, including Israel, want Assad to remain in power. If there was an ulterior motivation beyond the destruction of a weapons shipment, I wouldn't be surprised if it was to lend support to the government's narrative of an Israeli backed insurgency.

They also give stuff to the insurgents. A thought that just came to mind 5 seconds ago, what if the country was supposed to be split up

[Kralizec]

Hussein?

#1 seems likely enough. Israel thought that the materials were going to be shipped towards Lebanon and took them out.

Or with a twist, kind of a cross between 1 & 2:
It's not that Israel suspects Assad of trying to transport high-grade weapons to Hezbollah, but that they've come to realize that Assad's position grows worse, and that he can no longer garantue his own ownership of these weapons. Israel thus decides to take out as many of these arms as possible before the civil war is concluded. If the rebels come out on top, maybe they can polish up their story with some post fact rationalisation that doing so saved Syrian lives.

Option 3 seems extremely unlikely. Israel would be trading a predictable and mostly sensible enemy (Assad) for an unknown future Syrian government that might turn out to be more agressive towards them. They might do this if they had their own reasons, but I doubt that they'd do it for the benefit of anyone else.

[Lemur]

Anyway, I'm with this guy: A Syrian War Would Be an Inexplicable Blunder.

Israel will do as it pleases, with no regard for the impact on the USA's interests. And then Israel will expect us to pay for everything. That is our relationship; less of an alliance of equals, more of a surly teen v. parent kinda thing.

And anyone who claims to know how a revolution will turn out is an astonishing idiot.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Turns out it was the Rebels using sarin gas

[Tellos Athenaios]

Off topic.

[Papewaio]

I know how the revolution will turn out.

Lots of blood and guts spilled by Syrians in general with lots of stern letters from the UN and paternalistic cannily specific intelligence on movements of WMD.

[Slyspy]

Turns out it was the Rebels using sarin gas

Only maybe it wasn't. Nobody knows, including the UN's investigator.

[Strike For The South]

What fun are toys if you can't use them?

[PanzerJaeger]

We've left the rebels out to dry for so long...

"We" haven't done anything to the Syrian rebels. You have to escape the mindset that we have an obligation to intervene on behalf of these people, despite the constant barrage of one-sided, sympathetic media coverage coming out of the country. The rebels have a long list of wealthy benefactors of their own, nations and leaders with far more moral authority and insight to act in the region than distant Western powers. If Saudi Arabia is not willing to bankroll this insurgency, why should we? And more importantly, what does that tell us about the true level of support the rebellion has among sympathetic states?

Right now, Assad is winning by not losing, which is the best possible outcome to this situation.

[Strike For The South]

*If your point is that the Rebels can't be trusted, I agree. I also think that had the UN intervened earlier and more decisively, the Rebels might be trustworthy. If your point is that this extended period of warfare is a good thing because it ties up two of our enemies, then I say shame on you. That kind of warfare hurts civvies more than anybody

If you were a dog, I would rap you nose.

The rebels are fascists. To be more clear, the only rebels with any organization are fascists and if they topple Assad the only thing we will get is more of that sweet, sweet Islamic fascism. If we had sent in "the UN" earlier you know what we would have? Better armed and better organized fascists. The Israelis know this and are simply destroying the means for whichever side eventually comes out on top.

There is an insane notion that these Arab spring rebels are running around singing the star spangled banner and shouting Liberté, égalité, fraternité. They are not. They are shouting for stoning and foot-length dresses. They have no notion of our western style of liberalism. It smacks of Western arrogance, the assumption that these rebels fight to be like us. I know the media tries to shove those lines down our throat but in the end it's just feel good bullshit because when you rise against a strongman you have to be fighting for democracy.

[Strike For The South]

The rebels have gone through lots of phases since the conflict began, and for a lot of it they were nothing but a popular uprising against dictatorship with many different groups encompassing that particular cause. By not offering legitimacy to the anti-dictatorship cause (because China and Russia kept saying "Eh, veto") we now have a situation where the uprising has all kinds of sectarian overtones, and a large jihadist footprint.

Which in short order was commandeered by the fascists, just like all these other uprisings

.

..Rap my nose?

rap

/rap/

[COLOR=#878787 !important]Noun[/COLOR] A quick, sharp knock or blow. The smallest amount (used to add emphasis to a statement): "he doesn't care a rap".

[COLOR=#878787 !important]Synonyms[/COLOR] verb. knock - tap - hit noun. knock - tap

[/COLOR]