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  1. #1
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    A list for things to be fixed, removed, added or changed. Let's try and provide CA with something that can help them see at a glance if they're headed in the right direction according to their fans and customers, and if they have everything noted down. I'll edit the original post as you guys contribute more things.

    Things to add:

    - True hotseat mode

    - Bring back the Family Tree from RTW and flesh it out even more, ATM generals aren't very interesting and easily replaced.

    - City view in peace time like in Rome 1

    - Naval transport ships that can carry a set number of troops at a maximum

    - An astrologer/seer type of agent who has to do with research: speeding it up, stealing technology from more advanced factions etc.

    - Seasons (preferably 4, but atleast 2...) and seasonal effects.

    - Walls or some other way of stalling for minor cities.

    - Generals & admirals should gain traits based on their battlefield tactics & tendencies as well as their record of success in battle (with appropriate bonuses). They should gain reputations according to these factors and successful tacticians should be renowned and feared for it. These factors should be taken into account by the AI when fielding its own force. The AI should account for powerful enemy generals on the Campaign Map as well when facing them with inferior forces. The mere presence of a renowned tactician leading a powerful army in an enemy region should affect public happiness for the duration.

    - Factions should be able to negotiate peace agreements between their clients/satrapies and other aggressive states, or use the threat of military action diplomatically against aggressors if they don't back down.

    - Bring back 'Give Settlement'.

    - Bring back Fire at Will for all missile carrying units.


    Things to improve/change:


    Campaign Map, campaign map AI, factions:

    - Campaign AI more cunning and with its own long-term goal whicih it aspires to. The AI must make better use of building slots, especially in newly conquered settlements or we will never see any AI faction expand to become an empire. If the AI is not sophiticated enough for that, let's give bonus and cheat to the AI factions to compensate.

    -The ability to zoom out further on the campaign map

    - Improved starting positions for "major" factions. No 1 province minors making super empires, no Epirus being wiped out by turn 10. The playable factions should be factors the player has to plan for and work with/around/against for at least the first half of the game.

    - Allow us to manually enter amounts in Diplomacy -> Offers -> Payments box

    - The AI calculation of force strength on the Campaign Map should be adjusted by taking into consideration that it's always fighting at a disadvantage to the human player, not simply factoring the comparable unit strengths when it comes to a battle. Understandably this is used to assess auto-resolve results, but as it stands now, it grossly misrepresents the AI's fighting capability when it comes to actual real-time battles. This may help the AI from bankrupting itself trying to replace its best units by sending them into battle with little realistic chance of winning. Maybe in cases where the player chooses to manually fight the battle the AI will withdraw after recalculating its potential for success when factoring in the human player as well, and look for additional strength from supporting armies before it reengages.

    - Aggressive, Expansionist AI factions should act that way, regardless of campaign difficulty.

    Battles:

    - Better / expanded shortcuts for battle commands (we should be able to decide if we want our cohorts to waste their pila or not)

    - Marines who fight onboard naval vessels for a living should get bonuses versus land-based infantry, especially when actually boarding. Marines should board faster and more effectively, while land-based infantry should suffer penalties during the first phase of boarding when only a few men have made it onboard the enemy ship and are surrounded by the bulk of the enemy unit.

    - Cavalry units should not commit suicide by charging headlong into spear units under all but the most desperate circumstances.

    - Elite units should be more aware of vulnerable flanks, and should respond to outflanking maneuvers/attempts when possible.
    Skirmishing mode that works, based off closest threat proximity. Skirmishers should be much quicker to react to directional changes and have significantly faster acceleration and speed than any line infantry for 'Skirmishing Mode' to work effectively. When a unit is in 'SM' and an attack command is given, they should quickly close to firing distance, release their volley, and then immediately retreat back some distance to repeat this when facing a threat from the front. The effectiveness of this should vary with unit experience and quality. This would greatly reduce them being caught flat-footed by line infantry.

    - Guard mode to be switchable and not " by default " as it is now. Guard mode can even replace the discipline concept from previous TW games ! For example, barbarians or non professionnal units could loose this ability when out of the general radius or when the battle is prolonged.


    - Ability to zoom into the minimap during battles.

    - The ability to line up troops on fences like in Empire / Napoleon.

    - More diverse and more beautiful battle maps.

    - The collision model. Units often melt into each other and have no sense of solidness or mass at times. There is significant clipping, where pikes in a phalanx will poke out the center of shields in the front rank. Horse heads clipping through the bodies of infantry, getting them stuck together. Boats clipping through ports, beaches and settlements, etc. and disappearing.

    - Battle animations are often out-of-synch and units stand around looking at each other and not engaging. Men fall down and die when no one is attacking them, etc. This is a huge step backwards from Shogun 2!


    Gameplay:

    - Expanded technology tree with more options and longer research times (this will make the +research buildings more valuable). Possibly tying reseearch to knowledge points or other such resources generated by library class buildings. Make technology tied to the resources and provinces a faction holds. If you have no iron at all (not even importing it) it's not feasible to be able to discover better smithing and ironworking techniques. This will make trade and strategic localized conflicts for the obtaining of a particular resource more important. The tech tree should be complex with many smaller discoveris along the way, instead of a 1-2-3-Marian reforms approach. Play Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri and see how tech research is done there - it brings atmosphere and excitement in the game to the point where technology itself becomes more important than military expansion for most players.

    -The ability to search for another unit while viewing the statistics of one, thus comparing them. For example, comparing Oathsworn versus Berserkers.

    - The cities of historical significance should have more building slots - Rome, Carthage and Athens should be more imortant, big and full of high-tier buildings than a backwater provincal capital in the northern steppes of barbarian Europe.

    - The political system should be refined and tied with your family tree and the family trees of your rivals. It should be more intuitive and the player should be incentivized to care about it by tools other than the potential game-breaking civil war. Every step of the way should make the player connect with the characters who are in power or striving for it and the decisions shoud have tangible results for the entire kingdom/republic/whatever.

    - Civil war armies should not starve to death in 5 turns after they spawn.

    - Allow us to garrison agents within cities. When an agent is garrisoned they are considered 'Deployed' until they leave that garrison. Add a visual icon to the towns name that someone is in there.

    - Champions, and dignitaries have a lot of cohesion when combined with an army. The spy in my opinion is greatly lacking. With the current way the ambush mechanics work there is a % that you will successfully spring an ambush when in that stance. Let the spy increase that chance.

    - More information regarding politics in the form of event messages. If my family is losing constituents (at a big rate) let me know. If I'm close to civil war notify me beforehand.

    - Armies should not simply be allowed to traverse the seas with cost-free transports, and the ability to build them should be tied to the Tech Tree. This may help the AI with amphibious assaults, but it's a highly unrealistic gameplay device, ATM. At the very least, clicking a spot on the water to move your army should trigger a ship building animation or device which represents the building of the needed ships for use next turn, and deducts some monies from your treasury (costs should be carefully evaluated for purposes of AI use). It takes a turn to recruit a naval unit, why not a transport? ATM you can get instant navies on the cheap.

    - Add a stance that has to do with the building/obtaining of boats to use as transports. It has to drain two turns' worth of movement points while the army assembles the vessels it needs to sail the seas (this is if you don't add actual transport ships). Also, if we are to use this system, make it so that provinces with prots will generate boats the army can "borrow" from the firsher folk and merchants, thus the process could be faster, while being stranded on the Lybian coast with no port in sight, with 1 tree per 10 square km. would make this process agonizingly slow.

    - Fixe is the never ending blockades where you cannot attack the city from the land even when it is being blockaded by your ally/client state. For a few turns this may make sense, but there needs to be a time limit or stronger penalties for long blockades to force navies to give up.


    Unit balance and Multiplayer:

    - War dogs should be an exotic and niche unit, not the end-all, be-all destroyer of all things light and unarmoured

    - Add a limitation on unit spam in multiplayer battles. 19 units of Spartan Pikes should be an atrociously sterile army composition that should lose to a better balanced one or one that "hard counters it". You can add two modes, a ranked ladder for MP and an arcade mode. Arcade mode will allow any unit composition and no limit on funds, and will have no capture points (you can corner and hill camp as you see fit). Ladder mode will have increasingly prohibitive costs for spamming the same unit or same type of unit, will have mechanisms to prevent camping and will naturally be ranked. Ranks will be held by battle size (10, 15, 20 and 30 k denarii), and can be filtered by faction and player. Thus we can see which factions rank where in the different battle sizes and so on.

    - Add the Avatar Campaign map back to MP. I thought it worked well in FoTS, I imagine it would actually work better in this. You can create custom legions with custom setups.

    - The capture point mechanic should stay for mutiplayer battles to prevent corner camping.


    Things to remove:

    - Armies conjuring transports out of nowhere and basically walking from Rome to Alexandria

    - Units being able to destroy gates without siege equipment.

    - Remove the unit limitations in Single Player. If I want to recruit 19 Royal Spartans or Hero's of Sparta why shouldn't I be able to?

    - Ship-to-ship superjumps. Units should not be able to leap 20 meters through the air to board a separating ship.


    Graphics/performance/UI:

    - Add a way for us to choose which DX version we run

    - Fix rain dropping frame rate dramatically for some players (again)

    Unit balance:

    - Add a few UI customization options. Nothing too crazy, but how about an option to shrink the size of the UI.

    - For those of us with dual monitors - "Confine Mouse Cursor" so that way it stays on 1 screen.
    Last edited by Myth; 10-29-2013 at 13:26.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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  2. #2
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    heated sling bullets isnt even that farfetched, though it has limited use. but flaming javelins is just WTF...

    To add:
    -Seasons (preferably 4, but atleast 2...) and seasonal effects.
    -walls or some other way of stalling for minor cities.


    To improve:
    -army movement speed.
    -Client state system (what Rome1 was lacking, you improved, and what Rome1 atleast was doing ok, you removed...), its nice that they join defensive wars, but they should not be able to just attack you 1 turn after you subdued them... Sure, an uprising or rebellion is nice once in a while. But when you subdued a nation in to becoming a client kingdom i expect them to stfu and pay tribute.
    -The province system needs to be refined. Now in my campaign Carthage went from 90+ happines to -50 because I conquered other cities in the province. Thats just weird. Cities should have happines independent of the province, and the province happines should be a combination of city happines and perhaps something else.
    -better balance garrisons.
    -more ancillaries and traits per person, combine with more negative effects to balance it out. And stop making everyone a lunatic.


    remove:
    units being able to kill gates without siege equipment.

    We do not sow.

  3. #3
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

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    CA is watching orgahs! Let's provide them something that perhaps they can make use of and as a result we get a better Rome II game!
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Sorry for any repetition but I feel like we need it for ideas to reach CA's consciousness.
    Things I'd love to see changed :

    _ A family tree would be amazing especially with Rome 2 time frame AND if associated with the present household pools, trait system and faction 's political system ! Yet, the traits needs to be introduced in response to the players action (like in BGRV submod for Stainless steel), as there seems to have no causality in the present system.
    _ I'd ratherr guard mode to be switchable and not " by default " as it is now. Guard mode can even replace the discipline concept from previous TW games ! For example, barbarians or non professionnal units could loose this ability when out of the general radius or when the battle is prolonged.
    _ Better BAI and CAI of course. More than anything the AI have to use building slots better, especially in newly conquered settlements or we will never see any AI faction expand to become an empire without immediate collapse. And if the AI is not sophiticated enough for that, let's give bonus and cheat to the AI factions to compensate. I really like this new city and province system ! And I love the army limitation and traditions too btw.
    _ A different transport boats system.
    _ No capture flag outside of settlements. I can understand the supply train's concept but capture flag confuse the AI too much.
    `_Please CA slow down units movement and make ranged units less deadly
    Last edited by Alcibiade; 09-12-2013 at 13:11.

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  5. #5
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Keep them coming! I added a suggestion for MP ladder and how to balance unit spam.
    Last edited by Myth; 09-12-2013 at 13:21.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  6. #6
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Im pretty sure that CA wont change the 1 year per turn thing, but we have mods for that.

    Agreed about the flaming javelins!

    And about the whole "throwing torches onto gates" thing:
    Im pretty sure that was only done because you have to research ladders and battering rams. In my opinion, they should remove the torches and make ladders available from the start. This way it would force the player and AI to wait at least one turn before attacking cities. On the mod side of things this can be changed by just making gates much more resistant to fire so youre waiting forever for your guys to burn it down. Though that wont bode well for the AI.

    And for town defense: I agree that its dumb that if you have even a slightly above-average force you can waltz into pretty much any town and take it over without much effort. Maybe like a palisade or something that can be burnt down unlike a normal wall. Granted then it becomes another siege battle, but as it stands the enemy isnt exactly coming out to meet you in battle so its basically a siege battle but with no walls. To add another turn or two to the AI attacking just have them wait a turn to "build" flaming torches" so you have some time to come to their aid.

    As for transports, I think just making them really vulnerable in battle is enough. Make it so a few volleys of fire arrows sets them on fire, and how one or two rams sinks them.
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    Member Member Lord of the Isles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    As for transports, I think just making them really vulnerable in battle is enough. Make it so a few volleys of fire arrows sets them on fire, and how one or two rams sinks them.
    This. While I'm not ecstatic about armies turning into fleets (which I first saw in 'Warlock: Master of the Arcane', anyone know if that was the first game to do it?) I strongly suspect it solves a lot of the problems the AI has with planning & executing naval invasions. From the games I've played so far, that part of the Campaign AI is much better than in previous games with a 3D campaign map. The worst bit of it is how good large transport fleets are at defeating real fleets (when you actually fight the battles - my feeling is that auto-resolve does a better job and favours the real fleets). So nerf the transports in naval battles a bit and try to get the AI to use escorts and I'll be happy.

    Aside from that, I'm with the OP Myth and his great list. I would add/stress a few points:

    1. Rain slowing frame rates down to a crawl - really bad bug, fix asap
    2. Still too many graphics/pathfinding bugs - e.g. troops landing/boarding from ships getting stuck, ships sailing through land in battles
    3. Capture points in open field defensive battles - really bad
    4. When AI factions make offers, we need to see more info - make our normal diplomacy screen available before responding
    5. Allow us to manually enter amounts in Diplomacy -> Offers -> Payments box
    6. Characters - esp heroes/warlords etc - really overpowered experience buffs for armies
    7. In general, all buffs seem a little too strong - 3%, 6%, 10% for example better than current 5%, 10%, 20%
    8. Slow down battles - both speed of units and length of melees
    9. Get rid of flaming missiles (esp javelins)
    10. Unit cohesion needs work
    11. Replenishment rates tweaked: currently too quick for armies, too slow for fleets
    Last edited by Lord of the Isles; 09-12-2013 at 16:02. Reason: added replenishment rates

  8. #8
    Member Member Spoonska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    • Bring back guard mode, but also add in attack move. It's pretty common place in other RTS's to have this feature.
    • Move your Army's win-loss ratings to the top block of Army history with the rest of it's "Lifetime" History
    • Add a few UI customization options. Nothing too crazy, but how about an option to shrink the size of the UI. Or zoom into the minimap during battles.
    • Remove the Unit limitations in Single Player. If I want to recruit 19 Royal Spartans or Hero's of Sparta why shouldn't I ?
    • For those of us with dual monitors -- "Confine Mouse Cursor" so that way it stays on 1 screen. This has been a problem forever, not just Rome 2.
    • Remove Livestock from the game. Have the Cattle Pen give you bonuses to commerce, and agriculture. Limit Farms to 1 per settlement, and allow city centers to be constructed in towns. Hinder them though so you can only get lvl 2 or 3 buildings.
    • Give me the ability to line up troops on fences like in Empire / Napoleon.
    • Allow us to garrison agents within cities. When an agent is garrisoned they are considered 'Deployed' until they leave that garrison. Add a visual icon to the towns name that someone is in there.
    • On the public order information screen give us a +/- net amount of public order for that Province.
    • Champions, and dignitaries have a lot of cohesion when combined with an army. The spy in my opinion is greatly lacking. With the current way the ambush mechanics work there is a % that you will successfully spring an ambush when in that stance. Let the spy increase that chance.
    • More information regarding politics in the form of event messages. If my family is losing constituents (at a big rate) let me know. If I'm close to civil war notify me beforehand.
    • Flaming Pigs. Self Explanatory. As well as the perfect counter to elephants -- Flaming Mice (<- this one's a joke. The mice not the pigs. Please bring pigs back.)


    I have some more, but it's hard to recall while at work.
    Last edited by Spoonska; 09-12-2013 at 14:51.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    - The politcs system should be refined and tied with your family tree and the family trees of your rivals. It should be more intuitive and the player should be incentivized to care about it by tools other than the potential game-breaking civil war. Every step of the way should make the player connect with the characters who are in power or striving for it and the decisions shoud have tangible results for the entire kingdom/republic
    Now THIS is connecting with your general: (from a poster at twc)

    Probably the fact that my generals seemingly die every couple of turns for no reason, basically making it impossible for me to "bond" with them.In Shogun 2 (FOTS), on the other hand, I had a good number of generals that were with me from the beginning. I remember I dispatched one of my generals (he was one of the first generals I enlisted) to defend a city from an enemy force that I had grossly underestimated. What I thought would be a small stack army turned into multiple full stack armies. It was basically my general, the small force I dispatched with him, and the garrison versus a huge enemy invasion force. It had been way too long since I saved last so I couldn't reload and I was desperate to win the battle because I didn't want to lose the city. My general and his men fought desperately to repel the more numerous enemy force, firing as many volleys as they could before falling back to a higher level. Then, with nowhere else to run, my general and his brave men made their final stand in the courtyard of the castle. In an act of desperation I ordered my general and his men to charge the enemy ranks, where they fought hand to hand until they were inevitably overcome. I remember feeling an actual sense of loss and a rage that would only be satisfied by the utter destruction of my enemy. Now that's immersion if you ask me
    Make technology tied to the resources and provinces a faction holds. If you have no iron at all (not even importing it) it's not feasible to be able to discover better smithing and ironworking techniques. This will make trade and strategic localized conflicts for the obtaining of a particular resource more important
    This! It's such a basic idea to technological advances, it's almost criminal that noone at the CA think-tank had this in mind when designing what there is of the tech tree. It also makes trade partners who have goods you might need, and goods of yours that they need, vital. A good basis for forming alliances (or for putting a big bullseye on them or you)

    - The capture point mechanic should only stay for mutiplayer battles to prevent corner camping. Completely remove them from single player open field maps (they should remain in urban fights)
    This would be my first choice, but if it would require too much code rewriting, then perhaps something like this:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ry-Points-quot

    Military ships should rule the waves and sending transports without escort should be a huge risk
    Yeeesch This is a no-brainer....a cursory examination of any military history era would point to this....

    And 2tpy (like R1) would be sufficient to ensure a better immersion on the campaign map. 4tpy would probably require too much rebalancing of all the features that have their base in the time factor.

    I don't mention the AI because it will never get done
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 09-12-2013 at 15:07.
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  10. #10
    Οπλίτη Member CaptainCrunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    This is an awesome thread Myth, thanks for starting it!

    Great contributions everywhere, but I especially like this one;

    ...Make technology tied to the resources and provinces a faction holds. If you have no iron at all (not even importing it) it's not feasible to be able to discover better smithing and ironworking techniques. This will make trade and strategic localized conflicts for the obtaining of a particular resource more important...
    This idea is so legit that it's downright shameful no one at CA thought of it before. An absolute game changer. I wonder how difficult it would be to implement with the current diplomacy model?

    I'll begin my two bits with AI specifics (I'll no doubt repeat/reinforce ideas already mentioned along the way);

    ** Warning, this post be a bit looooonggg **

    IMPROVEMENTS

    Battle AI:
    • Unit cohesion does not exist at the moment. I believe this is the single biggest weakness of the AI. If this one thing can be addressed it will improve the AI's fighting effectiveness by several orders of magnitude. Professional units being led by a general need to behave as a unified force, not individual units behaving on their own. The AI needs to account for its own supporting units and how to best arrange its battle line according to its strengths and weaknesses, and the reputation/ability of their general (<- see below Additions). They need to more or less move together and be 'aware' of the friendly units next to them. The more experienced or disciplined the units, the more likely this should be, with the appropriate amount of gaps in the battle line according to these variables accounted for.
    • AI armies should employ Defensive/Balanced/Offensive stances according to the compositions of their own force and that of their opponents', and the reputation/ability of the generals. The AI should never just simply throw its entire force at the enemy in one chaotic blob when they close to engagement distance. AI armies should variate in their battle capabilities according to their generals' tactical tendencies and reputation.
    • AI units should not chase units that are vulnerable to it all over the map without any regard for their own safety or separation from the main force. Examples; spear infantry exhausting themselves and turning their backs on missile units while chasing cavalry all over the map -or- melee infantry breaking ranks and falling against an entire enemy battle line because some peltasts looked like an easy target.
    • Cavalry units should not commit suicide by charging headlong into spear units under all but the most desperate circumstances.
    • Missile units should not commit suicide by charging a battle line like first wave assault infantry. They should try to avoid melee combat at all costs and stay just in range of their missile capability, especially crack veteran units. The higher the unit veterancy, the quicker they should react to the changing battle field.
    • Generally, unit morale needs to be looked at carefully. This, along with poor & non-cohesive AI tactics, results in the AI often getting routed in seconds.
    • Conversely, elite units that become exhausted should suffer greater penalties to morale. Currently, some elite units can keep fighting well after they've become exhausted against enemies who are fresh or just winded. Exhausted means you can hardly lift up your arms, much less fight effectively.
    • Elite/disciplined units who are meant to fight in formation (and who are not exhausted) should hold formation much better during battle, particularly when compared to less professional units.
    • Elite units should be more aware of vulnerable flanks, and should respond to outflanking maneuvers/attempts when possible.
    • Skirmishing mode that works, based off closest threat proximity. Skirmishers should be much quicker to react to directional changes and have significantly faster acceleration and speed than any line infantry for 'Skirmishing Mode' to work effectively. When a unit is in 'SM' and an attack command is given, they should quickly close to firing distance, release their volley, and then immediately retreat back some distance to repeat this when facing a threat from the front. The effectiveness of this should vary with unit experience and quality. This would greatly reduce them being caught flat-footed by line infantry.


    Naval Battles:
    • The effectiveness of troop transports needs rebalancing in relation to naval units. Transports are too powerful, being fast & maneuverable enough by comparison to make all naval vessels extremely vulnerable to boarding (which brings their necessity into question as a consequence). Most naval vessels can't survive a boarding by even cheap militia infantry. Why have an expensive navy when you can simply put a bunch of cheap infantry and missile units out to sea for free and have a much more effective force? Transports are heavy and carry significantly more troops and material than do purpose-built naval warships, they should accelerate (key!)& maneuver much slower as a consequence. They should be extremely vulnerable to warships and require naval escorts to transit safely through contested waters.
    • Marines who fight onboard naval vessels for a living should get bonuses versus land-based infantry, especially when actually boarding. Marines should board faster and more effectively, while land-based infantry should suffer penalties during the first phase of boarding when only a few men have made it onboard the enemy ship and are surrounded by the bulk of the enemy unit.
    • It should be much more difficult for a transport to trap & board a naval vessel with little to no hull damage, not simply get close enough to suction itself to it. Why can't a naval vessel backwater right after 'melee mode' begins from a simple brush with a transport? Only a few men have made it onboard, land units can disengage from battle, so should capable naval units. They shouldn't get frozen in place when they're free to back out.
    • Conversely, ships of any type with excessive hull damage should be very vulnerable to boarding and should not be able to backwater fast enough to disengage. Same goes for naval vessels that have been trapped from both sides by transports. As it stands now, I can trap, freeze & board any AI naval vessel with any transport by simply getting close to it from one side.
    • Obviously, beach landings need to be looked at, as they are buggy and often entire units that get stuck in the graphics get sent to oblivion ("Numba Ten!" )


    Campaign AI:
    • The AI calculation of force strength on the Campaign Map should be adjusted by taking into consideration that it's always fighting at a disadvantage to the human player, not simply factoring the comparable unit strengths when it comes to a battle. Understandably this is used to assess auto-resolve results, but as it stands now, it grossly misrepresents the AI's fighting capability when it comes to actual real-time battles. This may help the AI from bankrupting itself trying to replace its best units by sending them into battle with little realistic chance of winning. Maybe in cases where the player chooses to manually fight the battle the AI will withdraw after recalculating its potential for success when factoring in the human player as well, and look for additional strength from supporting armies before it reengages.
    • Aggressive, Expansionist AI factions should act that way, regardless of campaign difficulty.
    • Campaign AI is generally too passive, it needs stimulation both militarily & diplomatically. This doesn't mean illogically spamming full-stack attacking armies every other turn, but factions should look to reach objective-oriented goals, first through proper economic management and diplomacy, then militarily.
    • AI factions should first look for diplomatic solutions when faced with a potential threat, especially from the player, rather than choose inevitable destruction by way of incompetent stubborn diplomacy that takes no consideration whatsoever of the economic & military might of a potential aggressor state. More diplomatic options should be available. As it stands, the diplomacy mechanic is very basic, generally requiring you to move up a ladder by either first establishing a Non Aggression or Trade Agreement, then moving to Defensive Alliance, etc. etc. This is too linear and rigid.


    General:
    • The collision model. Units often melt into each other and have no sense of solidness or mass at times. There is significant clipping, where pikes in a phalanx will poke out the center of shields in the front rank. Horse heads clipping through the bodies of infantry, getting them stuck together. Boats clipping through ports, beaches and settlements, etc. and disappearing.
    • Battle animations are often out-of-synch and units stand around looking at each other and not engaging. Men fall down and die when no one is attacking them, etc. This is a huge step backwards from Shogun 2!
    • Happiness and Squalor should be region dependent, not provincial. The attempt to streamline micromanagement is understandable, but the way these 2 components are now is counter-intuitive. Squalor is in itself counter-intuitive and needs to be rebalanced, as of now I feel it's poorly implemented as a gameplay mechanic, not to mention irrational.
    • Armies should not simply be allowed to traverse the seas with cost-free transports, and the ability to build them should be tied to the Tech Tree. This may help the AI with amphibious assaults, but it's a highly unrealistic gameplay device, ATM. At the very least, clicking a spot on the water to move your army should trigger a ship building animation or device which represents the building of the needed ships for use next turn, and deducts some monies from your treasury (costs should be carefully evaluated for purposes of AI use). It takes a turn to recruit a naval unit, why not a transport? ATM you can get instant navies on the cheap. As already mentioned, transports should also be highly vulnerable to attacks from enemy warships, and need naval escort.
    • Foot speed during battles needs to be reduced, as it is now some units like Light Hoplites are absolutely bonkers! If you consider the scale of the battle map in relation to their speed some of the units are moving superhumanly fast. It's not every unit, but the fastest units need to get looked at again. There is very little difference between the speed of mounted units and the fastest foot soldiers. This is a real problem for the AI, as it already cannot keep its units together when advancing to meet an enemy.


    Additions:
    • Generals & admirals should gain traits based on their battlefield tactics & tendencies as well as their record of success in battle (with appropriate bonuses). They should gain reputations according to these factors and successful tacticians should be renowned and feared for it. These factors should be taken into account by the AI when fielding its own force. The AI should account for powerful enemy generals on the Campaign Map as well when facing them with inferior forces. The mere presence of a renowned tactician leading a powerful army in an enemy region should affect public happiness for the duration.
    • Bring back the Family Tree from RTW and flesh it out even more, ATM generals aren't very interesting and easily replaced.
    • Factions should be able to negotiate peace agreements between their clients/satrapies and other aggressive states, or use the threat of military action diplomatically against aggressors if they don't back down.
    • Bring back 'Give Settlement'.
    • At least 2 turns per year, Summer - Winter, appropriately reflected on the Campaign and Battle maps.
    • Bring back Fire at Will for all missile carrying units.


    Removed/Scrapped:
    • Any flaming magic missile, with the exception of arrows from foot archers. And these should have their rate of fire appropriately reduced. No flaming javelins, or arrows from horse archers, etc. This is laughably nonsensical.
    • All Capture Points from single player open battles. The AI simply cannot deal with these properly and they are incredibly gamey. Tactical deployment options in open battles are now broken in the current state because the player is forced to deploy in the small Capture Point area which invariably holds no strategic significance in any random battle map. The AI will also rush to the Capture Point, totally oblivious to its own safety and whether or not its being destroyed by the player in the process. I've routed multiple units of Royal Spartans with militia hoplites because of this! I would rather all capture points be removed period, but I'm still considering workable alternatives for siege battles and multiplayer. At the very least, a central Capture Point in a settlement should only be considered captured if the player takes it with the majority of his attacking force. This way a player can't okiedoke the AI and tie it up while a single unit of men slip in the back and take the CP. This makes the AI simultaneously rout whether or not they're winning the pitched battle elsewhere on the map!
    • Destruction of fortification gates with torches.
    • Ship-to-ship superjumps. Units should not be able to leap 20 meters through the air to board a separating ship. C'mon.


    Ok lemme stop now!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    It's also a secondary issue that armies seem to be able to go waterborne too easily
    Not sure I can agree with this...

    Too many times I've read where land-locked factions suddenly become the world's greatest mariners and go sailing off halfway around the known world to attack an enemy faction, that by all rights, they would not even come into contact with in any foreseeable future. I'm not suggesting that R2 needs to be a historical simulator, but some levity is necessary, I think.
    High Plains Drifter

  12. #12
    The Philosopher Duke Member Suraknar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    A list for things to be fixed, removed, added or changed. Let's try and provide CA with something that can help them see at a glance if they're headed in the right direction according to their fans and customers, and if they have everything noted down. I'll edit the original post as you guys contribute more things.

    Things to add:
    - True hotseat mode
    Ok.

    - Bring back the Family Tree from RTW and flesh it out even more, ATM generals aren't very interesting and easily replaced.
    Agreed, always liked the Familly trees in the series. Not sure how it can fit the new system with the houses etc, but maybe it can actually be an improvement over it.

    - City view in peace time like in Rome 1
    Yes that is missing.

    - Naval transport ships that can carry a set number of troops at a maximum
    I like the new system for transports, I like that we do not have to build fleets to trasport armies and that armies can embark disembark with transports as they do now.

    The game's trategy I see it has changed. We long longer have to have armies guarding every single city/settlement. There is an automated good Garisson tied to technology so it improves with time. Which can put up a good fight too. And we have armies, as historically Raised and assembled by great people and generals, states of Houses and Famillies. That do Regional protection.

    Playng Rome II for me has been like Playing ROME the TV series... I think they did a great job with the changes on teh Strategic level.

    So Armies looking to travel by Boat normally brokered deals with numerous merchants and other seafaring factions historically. And I think the way the system is made represents this.

    What would be an improvement following the same vision, could be to have to pay a certain fee for embarcation of armies based on the number of units that are being transported. But going back to the old system, I do not agree it was really a pain gameplay wise.

    - An astrologer/seer type of agent who has to do with research: speeding it up, stealing technology from more advanced factions etc.
    Good idea, however, Philosopher would be better, Seers and Astrologers were religious people, those interested in technologies were the Philosophers, mathematicians, Histrorians of the time. As they travelled from city to city to exchange Idas they also contributed in the proliferation of knowledge from different cultures.

    - Seasons (preferably 4, but atleast 2...) and seasonal effects.
    It would be nice to have this as a Toggle in the game Settings that wway players can customize their experience as they wish. It is done through modding at this time.

    - Walls or some other way of stalling for minor cities.
    Not all cities had walls in the perriod. I relly much like the new Provincilal major/Minor City interelationship and setup. In fact I love it. It is simply refreshing to play :)

    - Generals & admirals should gain traits based on their battlefield tactics & tendencies as well as their record of success in battle (with appropriate bonuses). They should gain reputations according to these factors and successful tacticians should be renowned and feared for it. These factors should be taken into account by the AI when fielding its own force. The AI should account for powerful enemy generals on the Campaign Map as well when facing them with inferior forces. The mere presence of a renowned tactician leading a powerful army in an enemy region should affect public happiness for the duration.
    Could be interesting, neutral here.

    - Factions should be able to negotiate peace agreements between their clients/satrapies and other aggressive states, or use the threat of military action diplomatically against aggressors if they don't back down.
    Agreed 100%, I been looking for the options to Broker Peace in the diplomacy list. An Arrange Peace/Seasefire option would be a great addition to the intricacies of Diplomacy. And if two states at War become Client states they should sease hostilities as well.

    - Bring back 'Give Settlement'.
    Neutral here. I am not missing it. Again I think the game is geared in its new itteration of gameplay towards more exchanges of settlements through military means. The armies we raise have a purpose. In reality we should actually be disbanding armies when in peace time and only maintaining a Defense force. Like it was historically.

    - Bring back Fire at Will for all missile carrying units.
    This is there already... what did I miss?


    Adding to the thread:

    Client State Mechanics.

    I am Playing Rome. at one point the veneti request to become a client state with patavium. hen they get attacked by the Ligurians. The Ligurians take patavium while the Veneti take Genoa...I go in and take Patavium by the Ligurians. The Veneti take the Large city of the Province to the north (name escapes me atm), while they lose Genoa to the Ligurians, I take Genoa from the ligurians and now the Veneti hold the Large city in between Patavium and Genoa...

    BUT, in the process of all this...the Client State relationship got lost...and the Veneti are remembering that I broke the agreement... How? I never attacked them, the Ligurians did and I even declared war on them to protect the veneti since they were my client state.

    So maybe Client states should be associated with the Faction, not the settlements...it is an agreement between peoples...not between stones.

    Conclusion

    Overall, not have much else to add here, I really am liking the game in the way it is made, and the patches have been improving the Bugs/Performance and minor issues it had at launch, and will continue to do so. And in between everyone feed back the list above covers most of the things.
    Duke Surak'nar
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    ~ Ask not what modding can do for you, rather ask what you can do for modding ~
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  13. #13
    Οπλίτη Member CaptainCrunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    - Bring back Fire at Will for all missile carrying units.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    This is there already... what did I miss?
    Units carrying pila can only throw them during an attack charge, they have no way of throwing them without charging like in RTW, where you could set them to Fire At Will and they would automatically throw them at enemies in range. This really hurts in naval battles in particular, where certain 'peltasts' can't throw their javelins unless they're boarding.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Lets not forget the friendly fire from attacking with Romans, in Rome-Med 2 you alt right click, in Empire-Shogun 2 you missile cav if melee enabled will fire until they charge.
    Lets play Divide et Impera, Ptolemy Campaign. Link to full playlist down below!

    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...2oIDsmGrPrKpzM

  15. #15

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    I wish the household cards were the family tree.

    I should click on my family tree and have a tree (or several) of members. These members should have bonuses like the household cards. They should have ages so they die eventually. If I need to recruit a general or an admiral they should come from this group and have about the same stats or something similar when they are recruited. This does a few things...

    * A household actually looks more like a household. It gives a better idea of where these people are coming from.

    *It makes it easier to assign household members to fleets/armies. Instead of clicking a fleet and having a huge set of cards pop up where I need to hover over every one to see which is best, I just click from the household window or tree and assign it to one of my way fewer in number generals or admirals

    *It could allow a better training of the household members. Never use a naval household guy like shipwright? Well that lineage dies out or shames themselves into something else. make it so you can't just pick the best military traits of your house. You need to cultivate a good farming line too for when it's needed (see what I did there?)

    *Having us pick our generals and admirals from these guys makes us make tougher choices. Do I leave that awesome bonused guy in my fleet so I can win faster or do I leave him in town to be an admiral soon because my current ones are bad or getting old? If I pick a land based guy to be an admiral he's going to suck and vice versa.

    *Let us assign household members to regions to help us shape the towns a little more. They aren't generals but maybe like mini governors who gave give (very small) bonuses to regions.


    I don't know if any of this is possible or even desired by other members but one of my favorite things was always seeing the household grow and expand. I personally liked Rome I where you had family members who were obviously governors. I don't mind the politics section as it is but it needs fleshing out. My family at a glance consists of one or two guys. We already have this large number of household guys, "just" give them faces names and ages. However complex that would be I don't know but I would probably adore it.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiDamascus View Post
    I wish the household cards were the family tree.

    I should click on my family tree and have a tree (or several) of members. These members should have bonuses like the household cards. They should have ages so they die eventually. If I need to recruit a general or an admiral they should come from this group and have about the same stats or something similar when they are recruited. This does a few things...

    * A household actually looks more like a household. It gives a better idea of where these people are coming from.

    *It makes it easier to assign household members to fleets/armies. Instead of clicking a fleet and having a huge set of cards pop up where I need to hover over every one to see which is best, I just click from the household window or tree and assign it to one of my way fewer in number generals or admirals

    *It could allow a better training of the household members. Never use a naval household guy like shipwright? Well that lineage dies out or shames themselves into something else. make it so you can't just pick the best military traits of your house. You need to cultivate a good farming line too for when it's needed (see what I did there?)

    *Having us pick our generals and admirals from these guys makes us make tougher choices. Do I leave that awesome bonused guy in my fleet so I can win faster or do I leave him in town to be an admiral soon because my current ones are bad or getting old? If I pick a land based guy to be an admiral he's going to suck and vice versa.

    *Let us assign household members to regions to help us shape the towns a little more. They aren't generals but maybe like mini governors who gave give (very small) bonuses to regions.


    I don't know if any of this is possible or even desired by other members but one of my favorite things was always seeing the household grow and expand. I personally liked Rome I where you had family members who were obviously governors. I don't mind the politics section as it is but it needs fleshing out. My family at a glance consists of one or two guys. We already have this large number of household guys, "just" give them faces names and ages. However complex that would be I don't know but I would probably adore it.
    +1 to this post, I agree with its intent 100%. I believe these objectives could be met with a family tree. My one comment is minor: I think the "Household" slot for an individual general is meant to refer to servants, retainers, and/or entourage types of folks, rather than actual family members.

  17. #17
    The Philosopher Duke Member Suraknar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
    Units carrying pila can only throw them during an attack charge, they have no way of throwing them without charging like in RTW, where you could set them to Fire At Will and they would automatically throw them at enemies in range. This really hurts in naval battles in particular, where certain 'peltasts' can't throw their javelins unless they're boarding.
    Thank you for clarification :) I have not noticed that behavior, especially in the naval battles. I will pay more attention to that.
    Duke Surak'nar
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  18. #18
    Member Member Kurisu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    - Factions should be able to negotiate peace agreements between their clients/satrapies and other aggressive states, or use the threat of military action diplomatically against aggressors if they don't back down.
    Still reading the OP, but this reached out and spoke directly to me. "Make peace with..." is sorely missing.

    Wasn't it implicit in Shogun2 that vassals gained a clean slate with belligerents? Lacking some expanded diplomatic options, this would be preferable.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    One to add to the list:

    Edict visibility. Could be done several different ways (faction summary page, strategic map, province list tab, etc)...there needs to be some mechanism whereby the player can, in a single display, see the location and nature of all edicts. Right now, the player has to cycle through each province and look at the little edict button on lower left. This is kinda annoying. Not a big deal early in the campaign with only a couple of provinces and limited edicts available, but when the empire gets big and Imperium level high, gets to be a pain.

    I've started keeping track of my edicts with pencil on a yellow-sticky...I think I shouldn't have to do this.

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