Destroying Sap points

**Vincent Butler** · 06-30-2014, 18:28

Does anybody have any tips for destroying sap points other than archers with flaming arrows? That is the only recourse I can think of. I usually try two units, and because they are so widespread (and cheap), I usually end up using Toxotai. That is only about twenty to thirty percent effective. Do better archers fare any better? Sometimes because of the position of the enemy siege towers I can't place my archers to destroy them. Outside of sallying out, which would be suicide for the unit attempting it, is their any other option, or am I stuck? The big problem is now I am fighting Baktria, who grew powerful as I limited the Greeks, and if they send Phalangitai in, I have a horrible time, they don't rout very easily. I am getting out of the range of the Hoplitai, and the Anatolian Hillmen take heavy casualties against phalanx, even if I catch their flank, there will always be some of my guys hit their front, and the Hillmen defense is not that great anyway. If I can't destroy the sap points, any tips for handling the phalanx coming through the breach better, I usually try to flank them as they come in, hitting from either side.

**Thoras** · 06-30-2014, 19:32

Do better archers fare any better?

Yes and yes you're limited to archers.

But do you sally out?Before the enemy attack(In your turn)?
When having lot's of archers and high walls you can kill a massive ammount of enemies.
Which faction are you playing as ?With enough archers you can destroy both the sap points and the towers.

**Vincent Butler** · 06-30-2014, 21:18

That's what I thought. I know siege weapons (onagers, ballista) have some effect against siege towers, kind of hard for them to target sap points. I don't like to have too large garrisons for financial reasons (though Toxotai are probably cheap enough not to matter), and I like most of that to be line infantry. I prefer two archers, two skirmishers or two slingers, and at least four line infantry, with one or two of those being heavy infantry, with one or two cavalry units. Hoplitai are great as line infantry because they are a decent substitute for heavy infantry (Hoplitai Epilektoi (I am sure I got that wrong), Thorakitai, and such like), and don't require an high level barracks, and they are cheaper than elite units. The Peltastai do OK as line infantry, and inside my empire, units with about the stats of levy hoplites with one or two extra Peltastai-grade units do fine as garrison. I am Rome right now. I guess an extra unit of archers or two would be nice, though I don't want to destroy all their equipment, I would rather wipe the enemy army out than send them packing. If I am upgrading barracks and have all the line infantry I need, building extra archers would be good, I guess.

If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan? Jeremiah 12:5 KJV

**QuintusSertorius** · 07-01-2014, 12:21

For order purposes, only the number, rather than quality of troops matters in a garrison. My default garrison with Hellenistic factions is usually 2x Hoplitai Haploi, 2x Akontistai and 1x Toxotai. If it's somewhere on the periphery, likely to be attacked, I might add a unit of Hoplitai and a levy phalanx, and perhaps a unit of Hippakontistai. All cheap and pretty capable when led by a General/FM rather than captain.