France Shoot-Out

[Fragony]

IIRC car accidents are around 5k, and I didn't mention them because they are accidents as you say. Could be reduced by using more public transport though, which would also ease the traffic around here, saving my lungs a lot of the harmful particles I have to inhale every day. Bad hospital hygiene is pure neglect on the other hand. They only happen because doctors find it more comfortable not to disinfect their hands between patients and owners find it cheaper not to isolate new patients as you do in the Netherlands. Rather selfish, isn't it?

The other question is why are we so afraid that Islam will kill us instead of all of the other things that actually do kill us all the time every day? Quite a few of which are also easily preventable with a tad bit of effort put into them. Europe has 600 million people, 12 of them died because of some idiots and now 600 million somehow fear that they will have the same fate if they don't protest and make the lives of some minority miserable? Do you remember when the jews were out to get us? How did that turn out?

It isn't about what they are doing but about what we are giving away because we have no answer to it. The only thing that comes to mind is compromise with the circular-reasoning of an F5 tornado. Muslims know it is the islam, and mosques work very closily with the police.

They aren't pokemon you don't HAVE to collect them all unless you are really really into Pokemon.

[Crandar]

Why exactly

Islam is the problem, by being extremely backward and evil, just like every religion, something expected from a 1400 old movement created by ill-educated tribesmen.
The problem is, however, what makes those young men take islam so seriously, despite its obvious ridiculousness, and consider it the best way to improve their quality of life.

The reason behind this is class struggle, war-torn states/protectorates and the western anticommunist campaign during the Cold War, that encourage the Arab generations to seek the solution to their problem in religion and not in social revolution.

[Husar]

It isn't about what they are doing but about what we are giving away because we have no answer to it. The only thing that comes to mind is compromise with the circular-reasoning of an F5 tornado. Muslims know it is the islam, and mosques work very closily with the police.

They aren't pokemon you don't HAVE to collect them all unless you are really really into Pokemon.

What are we giving away? What's an F5 tornado? What do muslims know exactly? Collect what? Why? Where? How? If it's not about what they are doing, what is it about then? What is what about and what is it anyway?

[Fragony]

What is what about and what is it anyway?

Told you what it is. Why don't you tell me what it isn't. You can always tell when someone doesn't know what he's talking about, reflexes. The urge to look at the islam with western eyes. These jihadi's are as welcome as the inquisition for normal muslims but because of political correctness that prevents one to call a spade a spade they have nothing to turn to for help. A comforting squeeze in the shoulder and a pet on the back is just about the most they will ever get from people who insist that the islam is just another religion.

[Husar]

Told you what it is. Why don't you tell me what it isn't. You can always tell when someone doesn't know what he's talking about, reflexes. The urge to look at the islam with western eyes. These jihadi's are as welcome as the inquisition for normal muslims but because of political correctness that prevents one to call a spade a spade they have nothing to turn to for help. A comforting squeeze in the shoulder and a pet on the back is just about the most they will ever get from people who insist that the islam is just another religion.

So muslims are afraid of their own religion? Just tell them that they can convert to christianity then. And you just called a spade a spade, why do you say it can't be done? Are you on some weird trip again where you equate Islam only with the violent islamist terrorism and imply that muslims do not follow Islam or something like that?

[Fragony]

So muslims are afraid of their own religion? Just tell them that they can convert to christianity then. And you just called a spade a spade, why do you say it can't be done? Are you on some weird trip again where you equate Islam only with the violent islamist terrorism and imply that muslims do not follow Islam or something like that?

Converting to christianity, good idea if you insist on getting harrased or worse. And I don't equate MUSLIMS with islam, they are other things, how many times must I say the exact same thing? Once again, a muslim doesn't necesarily submits to islam. Only a few submit to islam. That doesn't change what the islam is.

[Fragony]

Islam is the problem, by being extremely backward and evil, just like every religion, something expected from a 1400 old movement created by ill-educated tribesmen.
The problem is, however, what makes those young men take islam so seriously, despite its obvious ridiculousness, and consider it the best way to improve their quality of life.

The reason behind this is class struggle, war-torn states/protectorates and the western anticommunist campaign during the Cold War, that encourage the Arab generations to seek the solution to their problem in religion and not in social revolution.

Maybe it's just a free pass for the ugliest of desires? Very handy if you are into these things. Rape whatever you want, kill whoever you want, or both.

[Husar]

Converting to christianity, good idea if you insist on getting harrased or worse. And I don't equate MUSLIMS with islam, they are other things, how many times must I say the exact same thing? Once again, a muslim doesn't necesarily submits to islam. Only a few submit to islam. That doesn't change what the islam is.

So just like catholics aren't christians then.

[Fragony]

So just like catholics aren't christians then.

What do I care what catholics are, it's much more interesting that they ought to be compared. You see, somehow somewhere, they serve for an excuse. can you explain that for me please. All religions can fuck theirselves as far as I am conserned, why not ask yourself why the the islam is so special, good luck with that excemption on your moral compass.

[Leet Eriksson]

What do I care what catholics are, it's much more interesting that they ought to be compared. You see, somehow somewhere, they serve for an excuse. can you explain that for me please. All religions can fuck theirselves as far as I am conserned, why not ask yourself why the the islam is so special, good luck with that excemption on your moral compass.

Because you have no idea what Islam or Muslims are. What the heck is this:

Converting to christianity, good idea if you insist on getting harrased or worse. And I don't equate MUSLIMS with islam, they are other things, how many times must I say the exact same thing? Once again, a muslim doesn't necesarily submits to islam. Only a few submit to islam. That doesn't change what the islam is.

Who made you arbiter here Grand Mullah Fragony?

[CrossLOPER]

What do I care what catholics are, it's much more interesting that they ought to be compared. You see, somehow somewhere, they serve for an excuse. can you explain that for me please. All religions can fuck theirselves as far as I am conserned, why not ask yourself why the the islam is so special, good luck with that excemption on your moral compass.

What do I care what African slave traders are, it's much more interesting that they ought to be compared. You see, somehow somewhere, they serve for an excuse. can you explain that for me please. All slavers people can fuck theirselves as far as I am conserned, why not ask yourself why the the white people are so special, good luck with that excemption on your moral compass.

See I can do it, too.

Who made you arbiter here Grand Mullah Fragony?

I would love for people like Frags to convert to Islam, and then act like they think Muslims should act.

[Leet Eriksson]

I would love for people like Frags to convert to Islam, and then act like they think Muslims should act.

I'd love it too, maybe he'd get out of his basement and go see people in public places, maybe learn new things about whats outside.

[Fragony]

My sometimex girlfriend ie from Teheran, I can only repeat.

[Husar]

What do I care what catholics are, it's much more interesting that they ought to be compared. You see, somehow somewhere, they serve for an excuse. can you explain that for me please. All religions can fuck theirselves as far as I am conserned, why not ask yourself why the the islam is so special, good luck with that excemption on your moral compass.

Islam is only special to you, because as Eriksson says, you have your own illusion of what it is.
If you could just stick to everyone else's definition of what islam is, maybe you'd realize that we do not see it as special.

[Leet Eriksson]

Islam is only special to you, because as Eriksson says, you have your own illusion of what it is.
If you could just stick to everyone else's definition of what islam is, maybe you'd realize that we do not see it as special.

Whats sad isn't really the loss of freedom of speech as it were, it is here to stay and everyone knows this, but people shouldn't die for what they say or do, and as much as bleeding heart as this sounds, you really cannot predict attacks from genuinely unstable people. Also there is this:

http://rt.com/news/220819-attack-mosque-france-paris/

Which just exacerbates the situation, and causes unnecessary tension.

Also i can't believe i'm saying this, but i am Muslim. A french friend of mine showed me the covers of CH magazines, they were offensive, i was offended, but should i do anything about it? hell no, what are words or cartoons going to do to me? nothing. It is their right to freedom of speech, what these terrorists did is wrong and is very much against the spirit of Islam, i kind of understand some of these covers despite their offensives, but one of them had the Prophet Muhammed being threatened by a knife and called an infidel by a terrorist, its almost surreal.

[Brenus]

“How about "be nice to everyone nonwithstanding his/her faith/absence of it"?” Great for me. It is what atheism is.

“Just tell them that they can convert to christianity then” Nope, they can’t. Death penalty.

[Gilrandir]

“How about "be nice to everyone nonwithstanding his/her faith/absence of it"?” Great for me. It is what atheism is.

So there is a basic tenet of atheism, after all, isn't there?

Among other news I heard that the perpetrators' families have been detained. Is it true? If it is, does it mean the police are taking hostages?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Islam is only special to you, because as Eriksson says, you have your own illusion of what it is.
If you could just stick to everyone else's definition of what islam is, maybe you'd realize that we do not see it as special.

As garbled as Frag's posts on this matter are he is essentially correct - Islam is both a religious faith and a political movement. The former is compatible with Western values whilst the latter isn't because it requires the state to be ruled by Muslims under Sharia Law.

This idea is in the Koran, that Muslims should be in charge, and so far as that goes there is something fundamentally different about Islam's foundational document vs Christianity's.

Judaism sort of sits in a middle ground - whilst it is a political movement it isn't an expansionist one or one that prevents submission to a higher political authority (such as a the Persian or Roman Emperors).

It's like Christians who believe non-Christians go to heaven - it's not in the Bible and there's no scriptural justification for it without a lot of complex theological wrangling.

[Brenus]

"I heard that the perpetrators' families have been detained." The 2 suspects are orphans... So, what families? And no, French Police doesn't take hostage.

"So there is a basic tenet of atheism, after all, isn't there?" Of course there is one: not believing in supra-natural. After this, nothing is required...

[Husar]

It's like Christians who believe non-Christians go to heaven - it's not in the Bible and there's no scriptural justification for it without a lot of complex theological wrangling.

What about people who never heard of the message such as most of the Mayas, Aztecs and so on?

[Kralizec]

It's happening. Marine le Pen is using this attack to promote her own style of socially acceptable (or so they think), middle-class xenophobia for the petit-bourgeois. Won't be long before her dad mentions it to their traditional electorate who are more attracted to vintage racism.

I wasn't really familiar with Charlie Hebdo before this massacre, but I'm pretty sure the victims would have had a problem with being used by these miscreants.

[Montmorency]

PVC's point about political Islam is correct and mirrors my own, which put another way interprets political Islam as a reactionary ideology with a religious vehicle.

Furthermore, Islam is popular among these reactionaries because it gives them an identity in opposition to the big bad West (i.e. Christianity).

[Leet Eriksson]

This idea is in the Koran, that Muslims should be in charge, and so far as that goes there is something fundamentally different about Islam's foundational document vs Christianity's.

This is wrong, there is our own "Render unto caesar" hadith on this, its also in the Qur'an, and considered binding. But basically if you're in a non-muslim country their rule of law applies.

This is also both supported by Azhar, and Saudi clerics, and were brought over to france and broadcast on middle eastern TV with regards to the burqa ban they had instated.

[Don Corleone]

I wonder how many people died of drug overdoses, alcohol poisoning or suicide in Paris yesterday.

The enemy is not Islam. The enemy is despair. Radical Islam is a cover for people like this. The illusion of separate self is too strong... too strong in them, too strong in all of us.

[Leet Eriksson]

I wonder how many people died of drug overdoses, alcohol poisoning or suicide in Paris yesterday.

The enemy is not Islam. The enemy is despair. Radical Islam is a cover for people like this. The illusion of separate self is too strong... too strong in them, too strong in all of us.

With the details released of the criminals, they seem to have a past criminal record, apparently they have planned for this for years. This is exactly like elliot rodgers or breivik, unpredictable and completely off their rockers.

[Fragony]

I wonder how many people died of drug overdoses, alcohol poisoning or suicide in Paris yesterday.

The enemy is not Islam. The enemy is despair. Radical Islam is a cover for people like this. The illusion of separate self is too strong... too strong in them, too strong in all of us.

They weren't all that sorry for that cop they finished of with a single bullet while running, good training.

[a completely inoffensive name]

And what makes you think so, you just decided that?

Did you read the rest of what I wrote? Do you believe that anarchist philosophy is inherently violent?

[Montmorency]

It is what it is. There's only one thing that had nothing to do with the Haymarket Square bombing.

[rvg]

Judging by the number of head-in-the-sand muslim apologists in this thread, Europe deserves what's coming. Massacres like this one will only increase in frequency, especially with Europe's clear choice of pacification of these savages instead of confronting this disgusting ideology head on.
My heart aches for the good old Europe, but folks, it is your responsibility to recognize that the problem exists, and take steps to solve this problem. If in your eyes there's no problem, then so be it: you will only have yourselves to blame later on.
Any religion or ideology is only as good as its followers. It doesn't really matter what the dogma says, it doesn't matter how alike or different one religion is from the others. The only thing that truly matters is what the adherents of a given religion do. That's all. And actions truly speak for themselves.

[Don Corleone]

They weren't all that sorry for that cop they finished of with a single bullet while running, good training.

Yes, that was a horrific and soulless act. I'm not asking for mercy for "them". I'm asking for mercy for us all.

You used the metaphor of cancer earlier. You're more right than you apparently realize. Remember, cancer is the organism's own cells, acting aggressively in discord within the organism, not a foreign invader acting within a host.