POTUS Election thread

[edyzmedieval]

Apparently, the proposed Treasury Secretary is Jamie Dimon of Citibank - who is literally the head of Wall Street, alongside Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs.

So... how's that going?

[Montmorency]

Well, of course. The Bundy civil protest was a legitimate and peaceful attempt to demonstrate public dissatisfaction with federal policy, unlike those Black Lies pavement [no] who only work to loot and destroy and have no specific grievances.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

s

Apparently, the proposed Treasury Secretary is Jamie Dimon of Citibank - who is literally the head of Wall Street, alongside Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs.

So... how's that going?

Citibank Exec would probably be comfortable in working with big numbers, making decisions about where the economy will be headed 6 months down the line, and all the tricks the financial industry uses to hide money.
OR
He's there to grease the skids for the banks to up fees and screw customers as hard as possible while bailing out anyone in the "club" who is having trouble.

[Greyblades]

The one thing that is weird about the video, although I agree in general, is that the right is not always better at debating things than the left is IMO. Whether you talk to a libraul vegan or a die-hard Trump supporter seems to make little difference in terms of the wall you are often about to hit in terms of ability to convince them of anything. Or maybe it's just that I'm a terrible debater.

Honestly I'd say you are the best debator out of the left on this board, largely because your wall comes up the least.

[AE Bravo]

You are getting lost in the minutiae and the abstractions. Monty may be the smartest man I have never met but something tells me he would be a poor executive. Policy wonks tend to make poor elected leaders.

You don't have to agree with these people. You do have to understand their pain. You have to be able to look them in the eyes and understand why they feel the way that they do in a way that numbers and political maxims can't.

is it really that hard to see?

In other words, a kneejerk reaction by a frustrated people. I suppose it's normal for a self-described reactionary to praise the same things he stridently hates about third world countries. You're a hypocrite.

Shut your mouth about populism elsewhere and maybe you'll be consistent. This entire election was a circus, you have little to be proud of or rationalize about your country right now.

[Idaho]

s

Citibank Exec would probably be comfortable in working with big numbers, making decisions about where the economy will be headed 6 months down the line, and all the tricks the financial industry uses to hide money.
OR
He's there to grease the skids for the banks to up fees and screw customers as hard as possible while bailing out anyone in the "club" who is having trouble.

Such a difficult choice! I just don't know what to put my money on!

I lie. I bet it all on grease. No worries.

[Idaho]

The left doesn't have the corporate cash or media backers to capitalise on public discontent. Instead the right is taking it and corrupting it into rocket fuel for yet greater domination by the elite.

The worry is when Trump fails to deliver anything in 2 years time. He will need someone to blame. You think he's going to target old, rich white men?

[HopAlongBunny]

Good Luck

[Greyblades]

The left doesn't have the corporate cash or media backers to capitalise on public discontent. Instead the right is taking it and corrupting it into rocket fuel for yet greater domination by the elite.

You do know the left outspent the right in this election 2 to 1 one and dominated all but one mainstream news network, right? Or are you making a distinction between the ideological left (bernie) and the corporate "left" (clinton) in which case I would have to agree.

[Kagemusha]

You do know the left outspent the right in this election 2 to 1 one and dominated all but one mainstream news network, right? Or are you making a distinction between the ideological left (bernie) and the corporate "left" (clinton) in which case I agree.

I dont think you can describe Democrats and Rebublicans as left and right, both are far too loose alliances to describe as simple as that.

[Montmorency]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...paign-finance/

Also considers Obama's and Romney's campaign expenditures. Interestingly, Obama's personal campaign raised more money in 2012 than Romney, Clinton, or Trump have raised in their respective campaigns. Astonishingly, this 2016 election season was "cheaper" in these terms than the 2012 contest.

Keep in mind three distinct categories of fundraising:

1. The candidate machine
2. The party machine
3. SuperPACs

Clinton did indeed outraise and outspend Trump in all three categories. Democrats seem to raise more, faster, and earlier.

An interesting discrepancy is between proportions of funds raised through small (<$200) donations, which Obama relied on more than Romney, but Trump more than Clinton.

Clinton’s campaign has directly received 16 percent of its money in donations of $200 or less. Trump’s campaign has directly received 27 percent of its funds from small donations. At this point in the 2012 election cycle, President Obama had raised 34 percent of his total in small donations and Republican Mitt Romney had raised 6 percent.

Sanders raised quite an amount for his time:

The presidential campaign of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders raised $234.3 million, and allied super PACs and other independent groups raised $6.3 million.

[HopAlongBunny]

This article fits my reading of the election:
Trump offered hope; veiled in mist, never explained, like a magic trick "All will be revealed!"

The Dem's offered nothing; not exactly true but you had to work to get the answers_that is not a winning approach.

P.S. racism still exists

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...for_trump.html

[Idaho]

You do know the left outspent the right in this election 2 to 1 one and dominated all but one mainstream news network, right? Or are you making a distinction between the ideological left (bernie) and the corporate "left" (clinton) in which case I would have to agree.

There is no way you can describe hillary as left. Watered down centre-right at best.

[Crandar]

[Husar]

It is more about engaging those in the middle. It is nothing to do with debating skill or finesse in the bigger picture, it is more about enticing their imagination. overly simplistic, but the phrase "Make America Great Again" is more appealing than "I am better than the other guy". Then when you look at engagement, "Corporate interests and corruption is polluting this country, lets shake it up" has more appeal than "at least I am not racist.". Then lets look at Brexit, it is similar, "EU is responsible for everything wrong, get rid of Brussels, lets put the Great back into Great Britain", versus "those guys hate polish people, leaving EU will court disastrous consequences". The first one speaks of change and optimistic outlooks to a beleaguered demographic.

Yes, just too bad that that doesn't cheer me up at the slightest, because it just sounds more like "we're all robots and most of us very simple ones with only a few buttons to press at that..." than all the things people want to make themselves out to be all the time.
It makes all the sophisticated discussion and politicking seem even more superfluous because one just needs to find the most common button, and I've said myself before that doing something against the wealth divide is the root of many issues.

Now you may ask "but why aren't you happy then if the candidate who claims to do that has won?". And the answer is that this is a mixed bag.
My evil side is happy and thinks that this experiment could go horribly wrong because he either has stupid ideas for how to fix these issues or is not going to help the people anyway and I gloat over the idea that the people will have to drink what they chose. Especially funny with the privatization and poisoning of drinking water in mind that we've actually seen happen already.
My other side, the one that actually laments this decision, simply says that voting for someone who could potentially kill your children by ignoring global warming and who could tank the entire economy, based on the oh-so-legitimate view that you lost your job when your local CO2-spewing, leaky chemical factory closed is maybe perhaps, most certainly still bloody stupid.
Not least of all because the fact that your town only had that one factory as a job provider was the result of your previous behavior as a consumer and voter, but at that point I'm probably stepping over a line once more where people will tell me about the depressing relation of work hours and education and that I can't just demand people to be reasonable or so.
I guess I'm just a silly elitist who is not giving the working man enough credit for constantly thinking that the vultures who let him work long and hard and abandon him for profit are the solution to all his problems. And the orange vulture said he'll fix it all after all.

I guess we will see about the magic of Trumponomics, I feel a bit like what Pannonian always said about Fragony watching an experiment from a relatively safe distance. Except that I didn't encourage this experiment, so if it goes wrong I'm free to gloat I guess, if not I can just pick the cherries and want them here, too.

The idea you could debate someone on the fringe to adopt your viewpoint is a loss in itself.

Even more depressing news about human nature?
If you cannot sway the extremes, aren't you left with conflict/violent resolution or oppression of their views?
Were Stalinists and Nazis right all along? Alex Jones already said the ones who can't agree with the Trump presidency need to be prosecuted because they'll never be silent, maybe he is onto something?

[Montmorency]

Were Stalinists and Nazis right all along?

Churchill noted that democracy seemed superior to the other forms of government that have been tried from time to time. Others more abstractly pointed out that democratic organization emerges and performs best in given sets of material and social conditions such as have predominated in the modern age, and that its continuation or future success is purely contingent.

My suggestion is that there is no such thing as "good" governance or form of government, for more fundamental philosophical reasons and all of this discussion is flapping in the breeze and whistling in the dark. It won't stop us from discussing or advocating, as the intrinsic failure of the human condition is precisely what can frame it. To twist your countryman's words a bit: every value is another suicide.

[Beskar]

Alex Jones already said the ones who can't agree with the Trump presidency need to be prosecuted because they'll never be silent, maybe he is onto something?

I think Alex Jones is talking about his personal experience, when it came to his constant opposition to Obama. The irony in him saying such things is amusing.

[Strike For The South]

In other words, a kneejerk reaction by a frustrated people. I suppose it's normal for a self-described reactionary to praise the same things he stridently hates about third world countries. You're a hypocrite.

Shut your mouth about populism elsewhere and maybe you'll be consistent. This entire election was a circus, you have little to be proud of or rationalize about your country right now.

A knee jerk reaction? NAFTA was 25 years ago, the loss of the manufacturing base started before that. If anything the people of the rust clung to the Democratic Party (or at least politics as usual) as long as they could. I'm not rationalizing anything. That's what is.

Populism in thrid world countries tends to be bad for America. Populism in thrid world countries tends to involve women getting their clitorises removed. These are things which are sub optimal.

But I'll make you a deal. You can continue using my countries education system and continue to consume its culture. For my part I will continue to ignore the fact your country is the epicenter of modern Slavery and a general pox upon humanity in general. Sound good to you?

[Viking]

And the orange vulture said he'll fix it all after all.

He is the orange wolf.



(...)

[Strike For The South]

Regarding Trumps transition team. Pence is a reprehensible human being committed to undoing the rights of homosexuals. He is basically Ted Cruz without the scruples relating to using government power as a hammer. I'm still not sure I believe all the names that are being floated for cabinet positions, they seem to be worst case scenarios.

if they are real candidates we may be inching closer to a faithless elector scenario and a revolt of the bureaucratic class inside the beltway. Which would be fascinating.

[Strike For The South]

Will someone tell Hill-dawg she doesn't have to stage photo ops anymore?

[Husar]

He is the orange wolf.



(...)

That's a very cool link, not that I read very far. There's Quixote talking about First Amendment rights and, if I read this correctly, how they should be curtailed, and then AnnaBoyle gives him the best possible answer:

My best friend's sister makes $95 an hour on the internet.. She has been out of a job for six months but last month her check was $14750 just working on the internet for a few hours. Go this website and click tech tab to start your work...

Amazing, also makes you wonder why people need Trump for jobs...

[AE Bravo]

A knee jerk reaction? NAFTA was 25 years ago, the loss of the manufacturing base started before that. If anything the people of the rust clung to the Democratic Party (or at least politics as usual) as long as they could. I'm not rationalizing anything. That's what is.

Populism in thrid world countries tends to be bad for America. Populism in thrid world countries tends to involve women getting their clitorises removed. These are things which are sub optimal.

But I'll make you a deal. You can continue using my countries education system and continue to consume its culture. For my part I will continue to ignore the fact your country is the epicenter of modern Slavery and a general pox upon humanity in general. Sound good to you?

It was a knee jerk, they bought a mystery box of bullshit. Your president-elect went back on major pledges. The difference between you and other Americans is that you find it easy to look past all the fighting words that had been said, for your sense of pride. Not everyone can look past that, and this is the difference between you and many of your other countrymen who are not privileged.

Because a Trump presidency isn’t sub optimal? Judging from his cabinet, you’re going to drag us all into a war at some point, not just bomb the defenseless as usual.

Funny you say "pox,"
3,066 Americans have been killed in terrorist attacks from 9/11/2001 through
12/31/2014, including perpetrators and excluding deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq.
o 2,961 of these deaths occurred on American soil.
o 2,902 of these deaths occurred during the attacks on September 11, 2001.

1.3m dead civilians war on terror by US.

[Deleted]

[Strike For The South]

It was a knee jerk, they bought a mystery box of bullshit. Your president-elect went back on major pledges. The difference between you and other Americans is that you find it easy to look past all the fighting words that had been said, for your sense of pride. Not everyone can look past that, and this is the difference between you and many of your other countrymen who are not privileged.

I didn't vote for Trump specifically because of what he said. Hiliary deserves no ones vote simply because the other viable option is bad. Depressed minority turn out speaks to that, A strong hispanic showing for Trump (relative to the last few cycles) speaks to that. The 50% of people who cast no vote and are now virtue signaling on social media are much more to blame than anyone who cast a ballot.

The DNC should have ran a fair primary. Hillary should have ran an actual campaign. The media should have taken this seriously. Every time someone references "privilege" with regard to not casting a vote for her, Trump gets stronger.

Because a Trump presidency isn’t sub optimal? Judging from his cabinet, you’re going to drag us all into a war at some point, not just bomb the defenseless as usual

.

Not as sub optimal as patriarchy or the Indians in your fathers basement. Frankly, Trump may never see office, we have a lot of time and a lot of motivated parties between now and 2017. That's not a murder thing, that's a scandal thing.

Funny you say "pox,"
3,066 Americans have been killed in terrorist attacks from 9/11/2001 through
12/31/2014, including perpetrators and excluding deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq.
o 2,961 of these deaths occurred on American soil.
o 2,902 of these deaths occurred during the attacks on September 11, 2001.

1.3m dead civilians war on terror by US.

Your phrasing implies that all those people were targeted by US forces the same the terrorists targeted civilians. That's a very disingenuous argument. Your number is also a high end estimate that includes things like malnourishment and displacement, things that the US tries to mitigate and are certainly not using those as tactics.

Islam has a virus within it. Unfortunately, the best way for the west to combat it seems to be strongmen, Israel, and lots of American weapons. There are a few countries that are good Petri dishes for democracy but I'm beginning doubt it's even worth nurturing.

[Deleted]

[AE Bravo]

Trump would have wanted to win the popular vote. Then he could claim that he had a clear mandate, and he'd be right. This is the second time in this century and within the past few decades that Democrats lost as a result of the EC. Trump did not win by a lot in many of these swing states. moreover, it's clear now that Democrats could have easily picked up Wisconsin and Michigan with a more progressive candidate.

This is a state-level failure more than a partisan one.

Not as sub optimal as patriarchy or the Indians in your fathers basement. Frankly, Trump may never see office, we have a lot of time and a lot of motivated parties between now and 2017. That's not a murder thing, that's a scandal thing.

You just can’t “look past your nose.” There are countries like yours, built on revolutions, feuds, and finally some unstable coexistence. On the other hand, there are countries built on family values, maybe you can learn a thing or two about cultivating a tight-knit community. Anyway I’m sure Trump and his entourage got you by the balls so rest assured. In any case, you are no longer in a position to lecture anybody about human rights when your president-elect has consistently put out fighting words and sowed fear among your community. What you know about the Arab Gulf is what you see on Fox News, your slave arguments are at least a decade old. Your treatment of First Nations in South Dakota and the Tohono O’odham of Arizona are no different than how you treat the people you bomb overseas. These are your people and you have failed them. These are your Indian slaves, only they are subjected to deployment of armed forces, Forward Operating Bases, mass surveillance and interrogation, and regular use of helicopters and silent drones.

It’s well-established that the US systematically targeted infrastructure since the First Gulf War and has been the main driving force behind the civilian death toll, crippling any economic dependence that could have been gained. The idea that Islam is a virus is a myth from your generation. You have divided the middle east based on your ideal Israel frame. Now you have us allied subordinates pitted against great civilizations and movements looking for regional self-determination. You must have broken a record for most countries defecated on? Setting Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan back decades.

I’m happy in the mile high, I don’t want to get lynched by nativists with a god complex talking about the middle east. I’ll be in Austin this spring break, you know those people who realize it’s 2016. Come through, I feel it will prove my point that people who share your views tend to sing a different tune when it matters. Frankly I wish you would. I only know one friend from Florida who admitted he’s a fan of Trump. If you’re ashamed of your candidate, don’t vote for him. Silent majority my ass.

[Strike For The South]

I did not vote for Trump. You wishing I had does not make it so. There was a small moment in time when he had my attention, mostly as a reaction to Hiliray and DNC shenanigans. That passed once it became clear He was just riding anger. Also it very much is a silent majority if none speaks up

Austin and SXSW are overcommercialized tourist traps. Still better than Boulder. The music still has some bright spots though. It's worth going once.

I will say this, don't let someone rope you into going to Franklins. Go to the salt lick in Dripping Springs or any of the 3 in Lockhart.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I did not vote for Trump. You wishing I had does not make it so. There was a small moment in time when he had my attention, mostly as a reaction to Hiliray and DNC shenanigans. That passed once it became clear He was just riding anger. Also it very much is a silent majority if none speaks up

Austin and SXSW are overcommercialized tourist traps. Still better than Boulder. The music still has some bright spots though. It's worth going once.

I will say this, don't let someone rope you into going to Franklins. Go to the salt lick in Dripping Springs or any of the 3 in Lockhart.

Salt Lick is first class 'cue. And God bless Huts

[HopAlongBunny]

[Beskar]

Had to laugh when I saw this.

[Greyblades]

And in this cage we have the increasingly endangered Self-hating Brit.