Futuramafia [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Meh, could be a style thing but I think if the wolves take the risk of not role hunting on purpose to remove a strong player (read: particularly in read quality and effort), the punishment is that they don't kill a pr, they don't need to be punished twice.

I understand why the roles can't talk after death but it just seems a bit volatile in terms of certain things being at odds with player styles.

Well, to be fair, in those games there were no power roles. Maybe a single cop.

That's how you got balance. Also the scum team was smaller, so you'd have more mislynches in play for the scums and more places to hide early, and less chance of any individual townie getting successful with their votes.

Scum won more than half of those games.

How you design the game is how it's balanced. More vanilla townies means more mislynches which is a net positive for the scum team. Low percentage chance of being correct early means tons of mislynches and people to blame for the town's failures.

Know nothing vanilla townies add to the scum's power, unless they, as an individual player, are both good enough at scum hunting and charismatic enough to change minds, and can single-handedly turn the tide of a bad game.

Those setups separate the adults from the kids, because towning is seriously difficult there with so many voices drowning you out, almost all of them dead wrong to boot.

[Stork]

We *didn't* get Dead Chat. Only the power roles did.

Well, would have, if Zack had remembered to set up the QT and give players a link to it.

I opened it a few days ago, saw someone call pizza town and then closed it before my brain exploded.

[Askthepizzaguy]

IIRC the cop was added just to give townies a fighting chance in those games, because we sucked out loud without one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I opened it a few days ago, saw someone call pizza town and then closed it before my brain exploded.

LOL

I want this link plz

[Stork]

Well, to be fair, in those games there were no power roles. Maybe a single cop.

That's how you got balance. Also the scum team was smaller, so you'd have more mislynches in play for the scums and more places to hide early, and less chance of any individual townie getting successful with their votes.

Scum won more than half of those games.

How you design the game is how it's balanced. More vanilla townies means more mislynches which is a net positive for the scum team. Low percentage chance of being correct early means tons of mislynches and people to blame for the town's failures.

Know nothing vanilla townies add to the scum's power, unless they, as an individual player, are both good enough at scum hunting and charismatic enough to change minds, and can single-handedly turn the tide of a bad game.

Those setups separate the adults from the kids, because towning is seriously difficult there with so many voices drowning you out, almost all of them dead wrong to boot.

I think I have to fundamentally disagree with this, even a bad townie will present something (either through rightness or wrongness) that will illuminate things to the live players I would think compared with simply no information from them.

Sure the scum can manipulate it, but I think its probably just as easy to not have to worry about it and focus elsewhere if given the choice.

I think if given the option on night 0, scum would choose VTs cannot talk after death over can every time.

I agree with you wrt having more vanilla townies in the game though, each vanilla town you add, especially where the slot is filled with (new/inexperienced/wrong/obnoxious/whatever anti-villa trait you can think of) players, it only gives the scum a greater chance to kill the players that aren't like that during the night after their mislynches.

[El Barto]

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/xnthqUHLKXu

[El Barto]

*waits for atpg to conjure up an über-answer to all 31 posts in the dead QT.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh, also one more thing I'm trying to figure out. Why did you keep wanting to NK me? I wasn't doing anything particularly threatening, but my name came up reasonably often in discussions of who to kill. Why not go after someone who appeared to have a power role? The only solid rationale I saw for my death would be that it would confuse people, but I can't see how.

Sorry, missed this post.

You were correctly being read by townies as town, and none of us could find anything to call you scummy about.

This is the main reason why you were so dangerous. It's a gift to be so naturally obviously townie.

This gift will fade after we see you scum a couple of times and do just as well. But I think it was more than just that. I'm very good at twisting everything to look scummy, and you were bulletproof in that regard.

I never had any confidence I could lynch you or even make you look like my partner if I died. It was merely possible, never likely.

[Askthepizzaguy]

*waits for atpg to conjure up an über-answer to all 31 posts in the dead QT.

Brain slug made me do it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

leaving GH alive here inspired by leaving choxorn alive in the Ciretako game. A live protective role for town that cannot scan is a reason why a super-townie player or a claimed town power role isn't being murdered by scum. Not quite enough for my purposes here, but with Winston's role in play and Riedquat's, I was able to successfully argue why my slot wasn't being killed. The mafia had their hands full argument.

There was also some value in letting people think he's a scum roleblocker (or whatever) while specifically defending him. No matter what happens next, people either lynch him, lynch me and then lynch him, or I might have an extra vote.

It's rare that it would then go, pizza lynches, GH doesn't.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Announcing my absence again. Off to school.

See you in the next game!

[novice]

Good game, all.

[novice]

I skimmed the mafia thread. My mind is reeling a bit with the amount of not only skill, but also effort, put into the game. Well played.

[CrimsonFox]

"This is Good Pelican"
"No way this is bad pelican"
"nah pelican isn't a wolf"

---Things dumb people say

[CrimsonFox]

i really did hate pelican's posting but i probably would not have shot at him.
I was obv looking at Hanky as someone I thought was wolfy

figured pizza would get lynched but i didn't have wolfy feelings for him.


the inactives would have been targets too just because i am so sick of inactives coasting in games/not helping that killing them seemed a good idea.

modkilling john without getting a replacement....boooo...

[CrimsonFox]

but grats pizza....being THE PERSON up for lynch EVERY DAY and talking your way out is pretty cool

[CrimsonFox]

now i realize what happened...every day i saw the statement "today's the day we lynch pizza"

then none of novice, mursska, or atheotes fought their own lynch :(

[Askthepizzaguy]

"today's the day we're going to lynch the piiiiiiiizza"

[Askthepizzaguy]

Monty posting his way to town reads everywhere was pretty impressive, btw. I haven't seen Monty as scum and WIMming it up before, as he did this game.

[CrimsonFox]

"today's the day we're going to lynch the piiiiiiiizza"

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

[novice]

WIM?

then none of novice, mursska, or atheotes fought their own lynch :(

I don't remember not fighting my own lynch. Although much of it happened in my sleep.

[novice]

By the way, was Monty really being himself?

[Murska]

Murska what in the world were you doing?

Not much. I was busy, as I mentioned a bunch of times.

[Askthepizzaguy]

WIM?

Wants It More.

It's a shorthand of referring to the concept that the player that posts hard, tries hard, and is the most townie-looking will win the game, regardless of alignment.

This is unfortunately valid, if you're a player who doesn't make any long analysis posts or if you don't post frequently enough, it's tough to swing people's opinions.

I think players in the game sometimes under-value the contributions of a player that is, in fact, participating, voting, and making cases that seem valid, but isn't in the top half of the posters list. Anything above the minimum is just icing on a cake, dressed up elaborately and covered in sprinkles. But the cake underneath is still delicious.

The trouble with the WIM theory is that sometimes, even a guy like me does not want to post 500 times that game and I will get lynched for it, and I'm probably a townie when that happens. Although I have allowed myself to slack off in some recent wolf games to give myself breathing room too.

And, if you're someone who doesn't have the time to "impress" people with WIM, then it can feel like the game is rigged against you.

A vote for a scumbag is worth as much as any other vote for a scumbag. The post count / word count / WIM of the person who made it shouldn't be a factor, but it is.

Murska, for example, is among the better players on his home forum, and voted scums in this game, but had trouble getting people to follow him.

The only solution off the top of my head is to sometimes give one of those lower posting players a megaphone and a big stick and help them attack their suspects. Decide on your own if their suspect is scummy, or if they're townie, and then give them more support.

If I want to post more and try to clear myself that way, I can clearly do it as scum. So don't let the post count alone sway you. Monty can do it. Plenty of people on other websites can do it. Visor can do it.

Postmore =/= townie.

[Montmorency]

Good work all.

I fell for atheotes' trap and died for it - fair enough.

I wish I could have had more time to work with Khaan.

Dp101, in my first game ever here I contacted Visorslash and Ishmael privately in a vanilla game because I thought they were townie and tried to organize cooperation in the thread. IIRC, Visor played it off well but he was last surviving non-inactive scum and he used us to win the upcoming endgame. But old habits rarely change. I would have had a field day with Stork's role.

By the way, was Monty really being himself?

Sort of. After I got onto the Pizza train D4, my post-trend diverged heavily. As town, my activity would alternate between lurking and berserking, increasing in volume as the game progressed. I never start heavy like that and try to maintain it. By how much I was posting, a guess would bring you to assume this was a game with private communication, though obviously that wasn't the case.

Also, my self-defense on D2 was a bit whinier than usual, but I attribute that to culture clash with you guys.

[Montmorency]

The Riedquat thing was hilarious. We had been tracking you, and you even were willing to work with Mafia, in the end, but it seemed nothing short of, "We are Mafia vote this way for God's sake" could have gotten through to you.

So we had to spank.

[Askthepizzaguy]

At least I can follow his thought process now. Riedquat, we trusted you and we knew you had scanned two of us. Turns out, you couldn't actually see us properly, lawl. But still! That's a huge risk on our part. You should take a leap of faith and trust me once in a while, what could the harm possibly be, said the guy who killed you in cold blood and buried many villagers in two faced fashion.

Ok, it was a strong point until I finished that sentence.

I think the funnier part was that me and Monty were directly and somewhat openly telling the neutral that we were scum and that we knew he was trying to work with scum, and to unvote a mafioso, repeatedly.

Then, the next day, three villagers trusted me again.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mind control ray. No, you can't have one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Dang it, real life, I don't even get an achievement unlocked for THAT?

Scientists are wrong, we're not living in a simulated reality. Otherwise there would have been like a sound effect and a visual cue when that happened.

[seireikhaan]

Thanks to Zack for organizing and hosting this game.

Thanks to Khaan for being a valued member of the team, I think you played well enough that if it wasn't exactly the town vig you were voting, you'd have gone undetected for a while.

That's nice of you to say, but I didn't do jack other than I guess draw out CF's role with my body. After skipping a phase out of annoyance to mellow myself out, I was naturally totally lost, and didn't have the time or energy to catch up, hence my absence from the qt. Besides, this game had me out of of my element. If it's not capo, 3200 posts is just too much for me and I won't lie, 70% of it sure looked like meaningless fluff to me. Excellent work and praise to my teammates for captaining the boat.


Edit: And of course, thanks to Zack for the game. Yes, I'm editing a post! BWAHAHAHAHA

[Winston Hughes]

Thanks for another great game, Zack.

And, as per my comment in the dead QT, congrats to the scum for a magnificent performance. This game contained plenty of hazards for them, but they fairly strolled it home.