"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
But the Queen has all the power. Theresa May is just a transient minister, albeit the one who (mostly) exercises the Queen's power.
This is not only true in the UK, even the more recent and more autocratic monarchs in Europe made it harder for dictatorship to "bed in" over the long-term.
In the case of both Italy and Romania the nations switched sides during WWI after the monarch/monarchist forces ousted the Fascist government.
The British Royal Family are the best at the "monarchy as democracy" thing though, partly because of long tradition but also partly because they have - since Queen Victoria - cultivated an image as "basically decent people."
The Queen is very popular, and whilst Prince Charles is often made fun of rarely is his character attacked. When it comes his time to be King you will find that the Commonwealth Realms will all accept him, I believe, because any alternative is more uncertain.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Doubly wrong as the gesture at the time had different connotations to what it has now. As far as many were concerned it was still the roman salute.
Last edited by Greyblades; 04-25-2017 at 14:55.
Am I attacking anyone? I referred to a universally known fact that at that time it was kinda fashion, infatuation with (at least) outward appanages of German nazism. Many people were "guilty"of this passion and the royal family was not an exception. It proves the fact that no one can deem himself superior to others and taunt their switching sides.
Expound, please.
Conservatives are so desperate, they are resorting to fake news about Corbyn again. If he is so unelectable, they wouldn't need to invent things, would they?
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
What's that from? Ie. what's the source?
The only scandals associated with them in the USA are a tendency toward marital infidelity by Charles, Diana, the erstwhile Yorks. Nothing regarding policy misrepresentation or failing in ambassadorial duties is bruited about over here. The Younger set are very well thought of.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
If you want to flaunt the UK opposing nazis I showed why you can't do this without reservations. As for Ukraine being pro-Nazi, it is not true.
First of all there was no Ukraine as a separate state in 1939, not until 1991. It is true, though, that the USSR was allied with Germany in 1939, but can Ukraine be considered more pro-Nazi than other 15 (at that time) Soviet republics? I don't think so. The responsibility for entering into alliance with Germany lies on the authorities of the USSR, not on non-existent independent Ukraine. Moreover, shall I remind you of Chamberlain's treachery to Czechoslovakia after hobnobbing with Hitler in Munich in 1938? Can we conclude that Britan was pro-nazi?
It is also true that there were some Ukrainians who welcomed German invasion. Does it make them pro-Nazi? I think this weclome is the reaction to the Soviet regime's policies to the people of Ukraine (and other USSR nations, btw). Were Ukrainians unique in their stance? No. The British can't be said to have suffered from a similar treatment by their own governmnet, but I can remember a picture of some British grocer sporting a sign "business as usual, Mr. Hitler". Can we conclude that Britan was pro-nazi?
So: I understand that you are hurt by any innuendoes that Britain wasn't (always) a lily-white everlasting opponent of Nazis. But the facts show that your stereotype isn't totally correct. As well as another stereotype of Ukraine "being pro-Nazi" after 1939 or in any other time.
Ukraine were more pro-Nazi than the royals as a set generally were (eg. Ukrainian concentration camp guards were noted by inmates as particularly brutal). If anything, from George V onwards, the British royals revised their image to more more British than the British, and defined their Britishness as Germanophobia. Which reflected anti-German sentiments in common British society. Pro-Nazi sentiments weren't likely to be popular in Britain, if only because Brits in general hated Germans.
Twitter by Suzan Walsh, Conservative Party Information Officer.
http://evolvepolitics.com/conservati...images-online/
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/0...he-opposition/
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Last edited by Beskar; 04-25-2017 at 18:27.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
after GE15 the labour party had an opportunity to wake up and realise that the ascendancy of the metropolitan left must come to an end, lest it divorce the party from the people it purports to represent. the economically left wing, socially conservative, working class. commonly considered to be the founding reason for the 'labour' movement. flag faith and family, i beleive was the commonly understood ethos in the first half of 20c.
having argued for years that UKIP was really labour's problem, not the tories, i rofl'ed big time at the damage they did in labour heartlands in northern england at GE15, and said that they needed an Alan Johnston type figure to reverse the northern rot in its core vote.
instead, what we got was an metropolitian 'ultra' from london who cared more about the injustice of palestine than the problems of Pontefract. so I rofl'ed some more. then rofl'ed gain when he proved to be completely imovable despite his utter inability to address the existential questions his party faces.
for all this talk of 'progressive alliances', i warn you all to accomodate yourselves to an 80-100 seat tory majority, and the utter destruction of the notion of the 48%. lest you become totally disillusioned with british politics. ;)
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
The problem is not left-wing politics as Theresa May is currently stealing ideas from 'red Ed' about capping energy prices. Yet, unlike her, she is not getting slammed into the dirt unlike he was. Having the Propaganda machine supporting your cause helps a lot.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
So, Ukrainian guards at concentration camps were brutal, ergo Ukraine was pro-Nazi?
Your conclusions are of the level: the Fresno black shooter killed three white men, ergo Fresno blacks are racists and murderers. Try to avoid generalizations and untangle yourself from the cobweb of myths and stereotypes spun by your propaganda.
No, it shows they were taught well.
Here's another generalisation for you. The British Free Corps, formed from British and Commonwealth POWs, had 54 members in total, with a maximum strength of 27. It's not exactly notable for having done anything practical, but there were quite a few complaints from the Germans that they were a waste of resources. Compare with Ukrainian recruits to the SS, both in numbers and activities.
Actually, most historians and history buffs don't think they were pro-Nazi so much as anti-Soviet(Russian). Ukraine had its share of jew-haters as well, but that was not exactly uncommon in Europe in the early 20th and Ukraine was not noted for being any worse than most of the other cultures in the region on that issue.
Records suggest that nearly 100k Ukrainians volunteered to serve with the SS, though far fewer actually served. To be fair, the per capita recruitment for the SS was higher in the Netherlands, Belgium, and in Romania than in Ukraine.
If anything, the Nazis missed an opportunity in Ukraine. They could have formed a satellite state that would probably have supported the war against the Soviets. However, they treated Ukrainians as "lesser men" as well and never truly made the effort to set up an independent Ukraine.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
The one thing that has perplexed me about British politics in the past few years has been the process of Party Leaders. I must be blind to the inner nuances of British society because Corbyn in my eyes just seems like a dud. He seems to be alienating to a large section of the public, and as the 'Leader of the Opposition' he certainly abandoned any efforts to represent the 48% who wanted to stay. He had a vote of no confidence just last year and now his party looks like it is on the verge of complete irrelevancy after the next election. How is this man still Party Leader?
In general, I really don't care if 60% had voted to leave. As a politician who is supposed to be looking in the best interests of the State, this drive towards Brexit at the possible expense of Scotland leaving the Union seems to be insanity. And over what, a non-binding referendum? Would a politician really be chastised in UK society for saying, "I will not vote for Brexit in the interest of maintaining a beautiful Union that has stood since 1707." I just don't understand and maybe I never will.
Last edited by a completely inoffensive name; 04-27-2017 at 08:03.
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