Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[Zack]

Is it wrong to village read novice for doing the post counts?

yes

[Champ]

yes

Ok I'll make up a fake reason then

[novice]

D1: Sooh, Novice, and Viper dominate the first half discussing meta and stuff. In the second half, GH creates the Khaan wagon, while Choxorn and I say some things that people don't like and become wagons.

D2: Chox is again a target, but the first half of the day is dominated by Barto and Manasi and the poisoning issue, as well as discussion over block claims. Barto issue fades for resolution overnight. GH is still low-key. Wants Choxorn, auto, and Barto lynched. GH deploys a customary chaos-dunk on Raith at the very end that could make himself look better in the long-run, even if it may piss a few people off for D3.

Yes, this is very nicely played by scum GH if that's your point. I don't see how that supports your argument that he is scum though.

[novice]

D1: Sooh, Novice, and Viper dominate the first half discussing meta and stuff. In the second half, GH creates the Khaan wagon, while Choxorn and I say some things that people don't like and become wagons.

What had happened so far on day one for you to decide that trapping GH was better than sheeping him when he made his Khaan case?

(Refer to this post for elaboration:)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So Monty, upon seeing GH make a case against Seireikhaan and noticing yourself a possible scum tell on Seireikhaan, you decide that this scum tell should be used for trapping scum GH, based on the questionable assumption that only townies would add said scum tell to their case?

It sounds incredibly contrived. Why not just join GH on the Khaan wagon and evaluate GH after seeing Khaan's flip?

[Montmorency]

Yes, this is very nicely played by scum GH if that's your point. I don't see how that supports your argument that he is scum though.

Zack asked me what was different between D1 and D2. My post only addresses that question.

[novice]

Zack asked me what was different between D1 and D2. My post only addresses that question.

OK, thanks/sorry.

[Montmorency]

What had happened so far on day one for you to decide that trapping GH was better than sheeping him when he made his Khaan case?

(Refer to this post for elaboration:)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It's hard for me to think of a time when I would sheep someone I think is scum for the sake of collecting data. I'm sure it must have happened once or twice, but it's not a natural impulse for me. Also, as I said, I wasn't around to do anything else D1.

[Zack]

Zack asked me what was different between D1 and D2. My post only addresses that question.

The answer is nothing to support your claim that scum avoid attention d1 and relish it d2.

[Zack]

It's hard for me to think of a time when I would sheep someone I think is scum for the sake of collecting data. I'm sure it must have happened once or twice, but it's not a natural impulse for me. Also, as I said, I wasn't around to do anything else D1.

How did you think he was scum? He hadn't failed to respond to your khaan thing yet at that point in time.

[Montmorency]

The answer is nothing to support your claim that scum avoid attention d1 and relish it d2.

I'm not going to debate that the theoretical matter with you. For this game in particular, I think it shows that the players in question aren't inviting excessive attention by their own behavior on D1.

How did you think he was scum? He hadn't failed to respond to your khaan thing yet at that point in time.

I gave my warning "going for the badge" post, and was unavailable soon after.

[Zack]

I do still think novice/Zack/SV/GH/Csargo are villagers so should be fine running with that for a while.

Why Csargo?

[Zack]

I'm not going to debate that the theoretical matter with you. For this game in particular, I think it shows that the players in question aren't inviting excessive attention by their own behavior on D1.



I gave my warning "going for the badge" post, and was unavailable soon after.

but they were on d2, so your point that they avoided attention as a strike against them is meaningless

why did you think he was scum at that time?

[novice]

Tally as of post 972:

Lynch votes
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency, Logic)
2 votes: Champ (BSmith, Csargo)
2 votes: Montmorency (Zack, novice)
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto, GeneralHankerchief)
1 votes: Zack (Jabbz)
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

Jabbz

Bsmith

Champ

Montmorency

Logic

Novice

Logic

[Montmorency]

but they were on d2, so your point that they avoided attention as a strike against them is meaningless

why did you think he was scum at that time?

But I wasn't using it as a "strike" against them. ???

GH? All that has been said before serves as my explanation.

[Zack]

But I wasn't using it as a "strike" against them. ???

GH? All that has been said before serves as my explanation.

um, yes you were

you have said scum avoid attention and stuff as a reason to condemn gh

when i pointed out this isn't true, you made up a non sequitur about how it's different because it was d2. I pointed the same thing out for barto, and when I refuted your claim that he loves attention as scum you didn't respond.

[novice]

Since there's no posting at night I'll do one of those cheesy "If I'm killed" speeches now.

Given the split votes right now there must be some scum in the danger zone. The split might look comfortable for scum because town is so disorganized, but it's also highly volatile and thus uncomfortable for scum (thanks to Pizza for teaching me this).

Remember this tally and subsequent vote switches when analyzing today.

[novice]

why did you think he was scum at that time?

GH? All that has been said before serves as my explanation.

You must have felt that he was scummy prior to laying a trap for him?

[Montmorency]

um, yes you were

you have said scum avoid attention and stuff as a reason to condemn gh

when i pointed out this isn't true, you made up a non sequitur about how it's different because it was d2. I pointed the same thing out for barto, and when I refuted your claim that he loves attention as scum you didn't respond.

No. I said that because scum prefer to conserve force on D1, and because town GH tends to be diligent and responsive, the fact that GH took his case seriously only to the extent that it was set in motion, without adding to it, even when boosted, counted as a scumtell.

I speak for what I have seen Barto do, you speak for what you have seen.

[Montmorency]

You must have felt that he was scummy prior to laying a trap for him?

I've said that I didn't like GH's case, so in the way of early hunches I needed to explore it.

[Zack]

GH? All that has been said before serves as my explanation.

No no no. You told novice that you already suspected GH before any perceived failure to follow up on his khaan case (when he asked you why you wanted to trap GH by offering a bone with khaan instead of simply pursuing khaan, you told him because GH was scum, when your main reasoning that I've seen for GH being scum is how he reacted AFTER that). You haven't talked about that reasoning afaik.

It's hard for me to think of a time when I would sheep someone I think is scum for the sake of collecting data. I'm sure it must have happened once or twice, but it's not a natural impulse for me. Also, as I said, I wasn't around to do anything else D1.

Why did you think GH was scum?

[Montmorency]

No no no. You told novice that you already suspected GH before any perceived failure to follow up on his khaan case (when he asked you why you wanted to trap GH by offering a bone with khaan instead of simply pursuing khaan, you told him because GH was scum, when your main reasoning that I've seen for GH being scum is how he reacted AFTER that). You haven't talked about that reasoning afaik.



Why did you think GH was scum?

Yes, I have. GH did something weird. I prodded him. He didn't react in a clearing way.

Do you imagine there's no gap between initial suspicion and time-to-Tdome?

[Zack]

No. I said that because scum prefer to conserve force on D1, and because town GH tends to be diligent and responsive, the fact that GH took his case seriously only to the extent that it was set in motion, without adding to it, even when boosted, counted as a scumtell.

I speak for what I have seen Barto do, you speak for what you have seen.

Why d1 specifically and not d2? That's just arbitrary.

Are you now doing with Barto what you accused GH of doing with khaan?

[Zack]

Yes, I have. GH did something weird. I prodded him. He didn't react in a clearing way.

Do you imagine there's no gap between initial suspicion and time-to-Tdome?

You said, "someone I think is scum"

You thought GH was scum based solely on that post about khaan? Seems like a huge leap, which I guess is why you're now trying to back down and say it was "something weird" you "prodded". But you told novice you thought it made GH scum, not weird.

[Montmorency]

Why d1 specifically and not d2? That's just arbitrary.

Are you now doing with Barto what you accused GH of doing with khaan?

D1 more so than other days, by default. It's not arbitrary, it's related to game flow and stages.

Make your case.

[Montmorency]

You said, "someone I think is scum"

You thought GH was scum based solely on that post about khaan? Seems like a huge leap, which I guess is why you're now trying to back down and say it was "something weird" you "prodded". But you told novice you thought it made GH scum, not weird.

I've already answered this.

[Zack]

D1 more so than other days, by default. It's not arbitrary, it's related to game flow and stages.

Make your case.

It is arbitrary in how you're applying it. D1 it's a scumtell for how he avoided going further in on khaan, on d2 when he brings a whole load of unnecessary attention to himself for little gain, you brush it aside as irrelevant.

Make my case on what? I gave an example of where Barto as scum that refuted your assertion he loves to be in the middle of attention as a wolf. You ignored this and refuse to go deeper into it.

I've already answered this.

Do it again.

I want to hear you explain why 90% of the game is null because lolidk, but you decided GH was scum and to trap him based on that one post about khaan.

[Csargo]

Are we just ignoring the fact that auto came in with that readlist with 2 scum leans and then voted BSmith? Is that not as weird as I think it is?

Unvote: Champ, Vote:autolycus

I'm just going to blindly trust Zack on Champ I guess, plus he was here and posted so seems good.

Why are we still discussing Monty's case on GH? It's bad, I thought that was already established. Discussing it further doesn't make it more or less bad. I don't know what to say at this point really.

Zack's stock is on the rise it seems.

[El Barto]

Barto in particular likes to take the center of attention with panache, especially as scum.

Well, it is all a matter of theatrics, n'est ce pas?

It also bothers me how you just call everyone neutral. Add on to that your barto and gh reads, and it feels like you don't really care that much about finding wolves. Your only scum leans are contrived for reasons I've pointed out (they did ONE THING you DID NOT LIKE so you won't let it go and you'll stay in that tunnel while they live), and you don't even bother to try giving a read on most of the game.

I agree that M. Montmorency does not look good in this light.

Ok I'll make up a fake reason then

(!)

Good God, Lemon Champ.

Since there's no posting at night I'll do one of those cheesy "If I'm killed" speeches now.

Given the split votes right now there must be some scum in the danger zone. The split might look comfortable for scum because town is so disorganized, but it's also highly volatile and thus uncomfortable for scum (thanks to Pizza for teaching me this).

Remember this tally and subsequent vote switches when analyzing today.

That is, assuming that there are actually any mafiosi in what you refer to as ‘the danger zone’.

[novice]

That is, assuming that there are actually any mafiosi in what you refer to as ‘the danger zone’.

One could argue that 0 votes is also in the danger zone.

[El Barto]

One could argue that 0 votes is also in the danger zone.

One could, but does one?