Feminism out of control?

[Montmorency]

Could have, bit too young for me

Is it related to the [REDACTED] incident?

[Fragony]

nah

[Gilrandir]

In the USA, we punted English quite a while back.

But not the language, though.

This campaign isn't directed at you. It's about a large number of men who do those things, as evidenced by countless examples from females across cultures.

I have a feeling that some campaigners join in for PR or some other reasons not directly connected to the ostensible aim. I mean how could you have been nonchalant and unperturbed and SILENT for dozens of years and then abruptly you claim to have been suffering most horribly.

[Husar]

I have a feeling that some campaigners join in for PR or some other reasons not directly connected to the ostensible aim. I mean how could you have been nonchalant and unperturbed and SILENT for dozens of years and then abruptly you claim to have been suffering most horribly.

Fear.
Fear of people who will start victim blaming and not believing them if they end up being the only ones, etc.
Fear of being alone in the spotlight as "the victim", becoming controversial, ruining other aspects of one's life and so on and on.

I often wonder whether I should tell others about the time I got robbed. On the one hand it's an interesting story, on the other hand it may skew their view of me towards "victim, weak" and so on and I may not want that. Being a victim can be like a disability, it may not be your own fault, but you may suffer in even more unrelated situations anyway. Certain people here also tend to use "Opfer" (victim in German) as an insult. Comes from Middle Easterners as far as I can tell, but Germans use it as well now.

[Sarmatian]

I do believe that things ought to be discussed, not swept under the rug, but I just don't see how anyone can maintain that there is institutionalized discrimination of white males in the western world.

It's just mind-boggling. Take any parameter you want, white males are always on top.

Certainly there are cases of discrimination against white males, but they are very rare, in contrast with discrimination of women or males of other skin colour.

[Gilrandir]

Fear.
Fear of people who will start victim blaming and not believing them if they end up being the only ones, etc.
Fear of being alone in the spotlight as "the victim", becoming controversial, ruining other aspects of one's life and so on and on.

I don't believe influential women have this fear. Oprah has been talking of her experience for years. The actresses involved in the Weinsten scandal couldn't have been that scared for that long.

[Viking]

I do believe that things ought to be discussed, not swept under the rug, but I just don't see how anyone can maintain that there is institutionalized discrimination of white males in the western world.

It's just mind-boggling. Take any parameter you want, white males are always on top.

No, it is not mind-boggling that resident populations of well-developed countries fare better off in their home countries than immigrant populations from poorly developed countries.

[Sarmatian]

No, it is not mind-boggling that resident populations of well-developed countries fare better off in their home countries than immigrant populations from poorly developed countries.

Que?

[Beskar]

The actresses involved in the Weinsten scandal couldn't have been that scared for that long.

It is an open secret and known by everyone and nothing was ever done about it.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/movies...unch-line.html

[Montmorency]

I don't believe influential women have this fear. Oprah has been talking of her experience for years. The actresses involved in the Weinsten scandal couldn't have been that scared for that long.

Why not? You lack the experience to understand, don't you?

I wouldn't lecture you on how you must really have felt when you visited America - that's your own story. People who visit America don't have a single universal experience.

[CrossLOPER]

I think what Fragony is trying to say is that he thinks it's really horrible what happened to that Weinstein character. He seems like a really friendly guy and all those sluts got what was coming to them. /src

If someone looks male to me but it identifies as a snail, I didn't insult them and it doesn't warrant any reeducation either.

I just ask if I am unsure, and go from there. I won't go beyond that, since it is an entirely different topic, but I felt the need to recommend this.

[Gilrandir]

Why not? You lack the experience to understand, don't you?

I wouldn't lecture you on how you must really have felt when you visited America - that's your own story. People who visit America don't have a single universal experience.

What does it have to do with sexual harrassment?

[Husar]

I just ask if I am unsure, and go from there. I won't go beyond that, since it is an entirely different topic, but I felt the need to recommend this.

And that can't backfire heavily when someone thinks they're obviously this or that and then you ask them how they identify?
I'm pretty sure there are bullying tactics based on that, which basically attempt to attack someone's self-worth. So I can see how that can be misconstrued easily.

What does it have to do with sexual harrassment?

It only means your argument about these women is disrespectful.
You cannot expect them to react like you think you would because you're not them.
The thing is that if you had made the same experiences, you wouldn't be you either, and might act more like them. Therefore judging their experiences using yours as a basis is nonsensical and one could say you're not taking them seriously as persons.

Monty said that if he declared that your experiences in the US made no sense because they didn't reflect his own experiences and declared you a liar based on this, he'd be doing the same thing to you. He's trying to transform the issue to a topic you might be more involved with in order to make his point clearer.

[Montmorency]

What does it have to do with sexual harrassment?

It has to do with anything in life. Harassment, losing a parent, playing the new popular game, hearing a song, cooking a meal, living through a popular revolt and national crisis...

Don't try to pre-define what other people go through on idle speculation.

[CrossLOPER]

And that can't backfire heavily when someone thinks they're obviously this or that and then you ask them how they identify?
I'm pretty sure there are bullying tactics based on that, which basically attempt to attack someone's self-worth. So I can see how that can be misconstrued easily.

From my experience with transpeople, it's generally not hard to make inferences and read social cues. I can't predict how every individual will react but you are usually given the benefit of the doubt if you show that you are trying to understand and respect this person. You can easily use common sense and just avoid the subject entirely if there is no need for you to delve into it, but don't overthink it. It is immensely helpful if you show that you are, at the very least, taking this person seriously.

If you are talking about otherkin, however, you're on your own. That is an entirely different subset.

[Beskar]

I am going to throw it out there in the topic about trans.

Why do you need to ask, or even care?

If you really think about it, do you need to know what the other persons genitals are?

It is kind of creepy in a way. Why do you really need to know if they go a penis or a vagina? Over 99% of communication does not require you to know unless you are some kind of gender-gestapo.

[Montmorency]

It is kind of creepy in a way. Why do you really need to know if they go a penis or a vagina? Over 99% of communication does not require you to know unless you are some kind of gender-gestapo.

Most communication is aided by knowing how the interlocutor wants to be addressed. You don't need to ask about their genitals to ask how they want to be addressed.

[Husar]

Ehm, yes, I don't need to care or ask, that's why I also don't need to know anything about gender fluidity or the 50 different types of gender identity or whatever. Wasn't that my original point?

[Beskar]

Most communication is aided by knowing how the interlocutor wants to be addressed. You don't need to ask about their genitals to ask how they want to be addressed.

You can address them in a gender neutral manner. Common in English is the singular "they" or even using their name. If you think about it, there is very little for when it is needed.

[Husar]

You can address them in a gender neutral manner. Common in English is the singular "they"

I don't agree with they on this?!

[Montmorency]

I don't agree with they on this?!

Them.

[edyzmedieval]

How about just use "him" or "her" because people identify in one way or another more closely to a specific gender. Just ask them and be done with it, nobody cares what you consider yourself as, just be a nice person overall.

[Beskar]

How about just use "him" or "her" because people identify in one way or another more closely to a specific gender. Just ask them and be done with it, nobody cares what you consider yourself as, just be a nice person overall.

Or use gender neutral instead then no need to ever switch and it says the defaulting of the other as a male which was very common in academia and law. Imagine you are reading something which applies to you and it was saying "woman" all the time, it would come across as rather jarring, then having women argue "well, it means both genders." - this is what they put up with, in the inherent bias.

[CrossLOPER]

gender-gestapo.

Pronouns, I'm looking for pronouns. As others said, you can default to they, which is what I usually do.

[Husar]

Them.

I'll just stick with "you", thank them very much.

I mean, eh, forget it, I was originally talking about lists like this: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...acebook-users/

Why anyone would be insulted if I don't know how they identify on such a list was my original question if I recall correctly. I'm getting confused by them/that/this/it/us/you?!?!? now.
I mean I wanted to tell Fragony that it's probably not worth getting bothered by it just because someone thinks that's what the options should be. And no, I usually don't ask anyone what they would pick from that list, what weirdo came up with that idea again? Wasn't me!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

You can address them in a gender neutral manner. Common in English is the singular "they" or even using their name. If you think about it, there is very little for when it is needed.

The signature blocs of many of the faculty and staff at my school state the preferred pronoun choice of that person. Simple courtesy suggests you should -- barring some label or form of address clearly used solely to be flippant -- address and refer to that person in the manner that person requests.

[Fragony]

I'll just stick with "you", thank them very much.

I mean, eh, forget it, I was originally talking about lists like this: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...acebook-users/

Why anyone would be insulted if I don't know how they identify on such a list was my original question if I recall correctly. I'm getting confused by them/that/this/it/us/you?!?!? now.
I mean I wanted to tell Fragony that it's probably not worth getting bothered by it just because someone thinks that's what the options should be. And no, I usually don't ask anyone what they would pick from that list, what weirdo came up with that idea again? Wasn't me!

Just one example out of many, many examples become a trend. I cannot ignore it unless I stop reading newspapers, magazines, stop watching tv, etc.

Latest one, in England this time, sorry my person can't come to the party, my person is pregnant. 'What is it?', it's a ehhhhh person

Totally necesary as the pregnant woman could be a transgender

Can we talk about sexual-marxism yet? Touchy I know

[Husar]

You still watch TV?

[Fragony]

You still watch TV?

Haven't for ten years or so but I do get the tasty bits

[Husar]

Haven't for ten years or so but I do get the tasty bits

Then I can only assume you go to right wing blogs and/like geenstijl and they bombard you with leftist propaganda for you to hate and then you blame the leftists for being pushy because the right wingers show their ideas to you every day. Does that come close?