Cereal killer mafia

[Gemma]

dvc: https://discord.gg/nXFDntvB4
wolf chat: https://discord.gg/9y8SGUaxp

[ladd]

Dvc link?

[Jan]

Holy smokes, well played Jan!
Thanks for the game!

Letting you die was by far my biggest regret this game.

I didn't realize that the eod time changed because clocks had changed for me and I had you so locked in as villager with you latest posts and you only got any heat because the immediate poe mostly claimed pr.

I soulread you d1 and confirmed it for myself just a little too late.

[Gemma]

I'll write some postgame thoughts later, thanks everyone for joining. Well played all, very impressive f3 from Jan and ladd. Big kudos to Ender for going for the big plays and fighting the good fight despite being in a massive hole from eod1 onwards. Really, mega job Ender, your posting in f3 was good too and I hope you're proud of yourself despite the loss.

[Syn]

gg wp

[Gemma]

Modthoughts:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Apologies to the players. The vest role was not intended as a kind of fakeout or somesuch with the idea of fooling town into thinking a wolf was mech clear. In that regard, I didn't anticipate villagers having so little paranoia about a claimed vestgiver not dying and I think I put more on town than was fair or reasonable (tbh I was more worried about cases like a potential f5 where the vestgiver might be able to leverage their claim into winning the game on the day without having to survive a night, or both roles alive+unclaimed until the day before f5). I don't think I could have ever predicted the exact things that happened this game to create a gamestate where Ender wasn't being sussed for staying alive through 2, 3, 4 nks, but it's still me who put the role in the game so the responsibility is entirely mine. Needless to say it's not a role I'll be using again.

I do think village could have approached the claim from much more of a 'is vesting/instapopping n1 something Ender would do/had motivation to do as a wolf' angle than a 'where does this role fit in the setup' angle,' as I think the latter is sort of just wifom outgessing the mod type stuff whereas the former actually had a lot pointing towards it being the case and is more something you can actually think about logically and come to a real conclusion on.

Jan's reasoning in f3 re: the role/setup was super good and accurate, and was the type of post I expected him and maybe others to make much sooner in the game. Obviously that didn't happen. I think if the fakeclaim doesn't happen day 2 then Ender's play doesn't pay off the way it did - Syn likely doesn't claim that dayphase whereas Ender is probably still forced to claim, has no cover from other villagers and is just outed essentially the next dayphase. I think in other worlds where the wolfteam is more active, villagers have a much easier time world building, reading for unalignments, etc and probably end up with much more pointing at vestgiver being a wolf than they did than this game where Ender was largely solo. But ultimately the problem is with the role imo and if it wasn't the fakeclaim in this game it coud've been something else leading to a similar situation for town and that's my bad.

All that said, thank you everyone keeping the game fun and chill. I enjoyed the experience and most of you seemed to as well for the most part! Thanks to the subs, thanks to rask for helping with contacting folks, and most of all thanks to Cuth.

[Jan]

Modthoughts:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Apologies to the players. The vest role was not intended as a kind of fakeout or somesuch with the idea of fooling town into thinking a wolf was mech clear. In that regard, I didn't anticipate villagers having so little paranoia about a claimed vestgiver not dying and I think I put more on town than was fair or reasonable (tbh I was more worried about cases like a potential f5 where the vestgiver might be able to leverage their claim into winning the game on the day without having to survive a night, or both roles alive+unclaimed until the day before f5). I don't think I could have ever predicted the exact things that happened this game to create a gamestate where Ender wasn't being sussed for staying alive through 2, 3, 4 nks, but it's still me who put the role in the game so the responsibility is entirely mine. Needless to say it's not a role I'll be using again.

I do think village could have approached the claim from much more of a 'is vesting/instapopping n1 something Ender would do/had motivation to do as a wolf' angle than a 'where does this role fit in the setup' angle,' as I think the latter is sort of just wifom outgessing the mod type stuff whereas the former actually had a lot pointing towards it being the case and is more something you can actually think about logically and come to a real conclusion on.

Jan's reasoning in f3 re: the role/setup was super good and accurate, and was the type of post I expected him and maybe others to make much sooner in the game. Obviously that didn't happen. I think if the fakeclaim doesn't happen day 2 then Ender's play doesn't pay off the way it did - Syn likely doesn't claim that dayphase whereas Ender is probably still forced to claim, has no cover from other villagers and is just outed essentially the next dayphase. I think in other worlds where the wolfteam is more active, villagers have a much easier time world building, reading for unalignments, etc and probably end up with much more pointing at vestgiver being a wolf than they did than this game where Ender was largely solo. But ultimately the problem is with the role imo and if it wasn't the fakeclaim in this game it coud've been something else leading to a similar situation for town and that's my bad.

All that said, thank you everyone keeping the game fun and chill. I enjoyed the experience and most of you seemed to as well for the most part! Thanks to the subs, thanks to rask for helping with contacting folks, and most of all thanks to Cuth.

I don't think it was a design flaw. With 3 "confirmed villagers" there was no real reason to push him earlier.
You could not expect taffy to make that fps play which bought ender a full dayphase. (Otherwise the same evaluation would have happened in final 5 instead).

You always give prs the time to resolve and pray that you have enough time to kill them after if needed.
This one just got really close.

And in the end this game was really really hard for wolves.
In most games wisdom cape and rask never get touched during the day because they were all fairly clear villagers and they only died because enders fps play was really well done. (and even in final 3 he had really great tone after ladd voted him).

[Jan]

I expect nothing less than 48 hours worth of memes folks. lettuce go

And now my friend is the time for this. :P

[EnderWiggin]

GG WP.

Very well done Jan. Honestly wanted to break you and ladd up earlier because I had a feeling this exact f3 would look like this but couldn't find the time/ability to =P

In retrospect I really should've wasted a turn and left pr claims alive but that's all hindsight =P

[Raskolnikov]

And now my friend is the time for this. :P

Haha yeah.

Gg WP. Both you and Ladd played this F3 very well!

Sick play Ender ;)

Tx for hosting Gemma.

[Totally not Taffy]

Modthoughts:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Apologies to the players. The vest role was not intended as a kind of fakeout or somesuch with the idea of fooling town into thinking a wolf was mech clear. In that regard, I didn't anticipate villagers having so little paranoia about a claimed vestgiver not dying and I think I put more on town than was fair or reasonable (tbh I was more worried about cases like a potential f5 where the vestgiver might be able to leverage their claim into winning the game on the day without having to survive a night, or both roles alive+unclaimed until the day before f5). I don't think I could have ever predicted the exact things that happened this game to create a gamestate where Ender wasn't being sussed for staying alive through 2, 3, 4 nks, but it's still me who put the role in the game so the responsibility is entirely mine. Needless to say it's not a role I'll be using again.

I do think village could have approached the claim from much more of a 'is vesting/instapopping n1 something Ender would do/had motivation to do as a wolf' angle than a 'where does this role fit in the setup' angle,' as I think the latter is sort of just wifom outgessing the mod type stuff whereas the former actually had a lot pointing towards it being the case and is more something you can actually think about logically and come to a real conclusion on.

Jan's reasoning in f3 re: the role/setup was super good and accurate, and was the type of post I expected him and maybe others to make much sooner in the game. Obviously that didn't happen. I think if the fakeclaim doesn't happen day 2 then Ender's play doesn't pay off the way it did - Syn likely doesn't claim that dayphase whereas Ender is probably still forced to claim, has no cover from other villagers and is just outed essentially the next dayphase. I think in other worlds where the wolfteam is more active, villagers have a much easier time world building, reading for unalignments, etc and probably end up with much more pointing at vestgiver being a wolf than they did than this game where Ender was largely solo. But ultimately the problem is with the role imo and if it wasn't the fakeclaim in this game it coud've been something else leading to a similar situation for town and that's my bad.

All that said, thank you everyone keeping the game fun and chill. I enjoyed the experience and most of you seemed to as well for the most part! Thanks to the subs, thanks to rask for helping with contacting folks, and most of all thanks to Cuth.

I think you're being too hard on yourself, players will always find ways to use any mech to their advantage and you can't be expected to predict everything.

My wolfrange is "Yes" if that helps.

It really is, very well played

Thanks for the game everybody!

[ladd]

Modthoughts:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Apologies to the players. The vest role was not intended as a kind of fakeout or somesuch with the idea of fooling town into thinking a wolf was mech clear. In that regard, I didn't anticipate villagers having so little paranoia about a claimed vestgiver not dying and I think I put more on town than was fair or reasonable (tbh I was more worried about cases like a potential f5 where the vestgiver might be able to leverage their claim into winning the game on the day without having to survive a night, or both roles alive+unclaimed until the day before f5). I don't think I could have ever predicted the exact things that happened this game to create a gamestate where Ender wasn't being sussed for staying alive through 2, 3, 4 nks, but it's still me who put the role in the game so the responsibility is entirely mine. Needless to say it's not a role I'll be using again.

I do think village could have approached the claim from much more of a 'is vesting/instapopping n1 something Ender would do/had motivation to do as a wolf' angle than a 'where does this role fit in the setup' angle,' as I think the latter is sort of just wifom outgessing the mod type stuff whereas the former actually had a lot pointing towards it being the case and is more something you can actually think about logically and come to a real conclusion on.

Jan's reasoning in f3 re: the role/setup was super good and accurate, and was the type of post I expected him and maybe others to make much sooner in the game. Obviously that didn't happen. I think if the fakeclaim doesn't happen day 2 then Ender's play doesn't pay off the way it did - Syn likely doesn't claim that dayphase whereas Ender is probably still forced to claim, has no cover from other villagers and is just outed essentially the next dayphase. I think in other worlds where the wolfteam is more active, villagers have a much easier time world building, reading for unalignments, etc and probably end up with much more pointing at vestgiver being a wolf than they did than this game where Ender was largely solo. But ultimately the problem is with the role imo and if it wasn't the fakeclaim in this game it coud've been something else leading to a similar situation for town and that's my bad.

All that said, thank you everyone keeping the game fun and chill. I enjoyed the experience and most of you seemed to as well for the most part! Thanks to the subs, thanks to rask for helping with contacting folks, and most of all thanks to Cuth.

it was a fun game :y:


an unfortunate series of events mean ender had cover until f3 for not being dead

tbh i think if he nightkills jan he wins the game. maybe even nk 1 of me/jan/suibian before killing syn (alas n3) so then he has cover for not dying until f3 and he wins



so ya close game

[katze]

lol i almost certainly lose that f3

i dont think the role is problematic fwiw gemma

not enough cereal killers tho

[Montmorency]

Interesting, a minimalist setup - 1-shot vig vs. 1-shot vest-giver, with an edge on Mafia side for FPS claims.

Ladd actually put together a great case, heavily emphasizing Ender's scummy D1 (which had been washed away by D2-3).

Ladd accomplished what I could not in our shared Org game a year ago. gg

But did Ender really vest Visor N1 and stack onto me? I didn't catch the reveal if there was one.

[Montmorency]

I see, it was a vest&shoot play. Very risky to start with. There's a few ways this could have gone differently with a true N1 kill.

EnderWiggin — 10/27/2023 11:44 PM
Mmmm
Town!Ender probably gives it to Visor
Maaaaybe Ladd

Gira — 10/28/2023 12:50 AM
okay yeah we gotta kill one of them, non-negotiable
boy do i regret peacing out at eod

EnderWiggin — 10/28/2023 1:12 AM
Gira, do we think we can survive 1 more day if I pull the
Give vest to Visor, shoot visor play

Gira — 10/28/2023 10:20 AM
sure why not yolo
we're in a hole already so let's live dangerously

EnderWiggin — 10/28/2023 10:38 AM
Gira Carries kill to Visor
Ender gives vest to Visor
(I have become invested)
This could backfire hilariously
But what's life if you're not willing to be a lil crazy

Gira — 10/28/2023 11:41 AM
if we fall flat on our faces that in and of itself is iconic

[ladd]

lol i almost certainly lose that f3

i dont think the role is problematic fwiw gemma

not enough cereal killers tho

You would have mislunched me dont lie eheh



I think this was my first f3 as a villager, i have been in f-5 and f-7 but idr any f3s as a villager. Achievement unlocked i guess

[Cuthillius]

Interesting, a minimalist setup - 1-shot vig vs. 1-shot vest-giver, with an edge on Mafia side for FPS claims.

Ladd actually put together a great case, heavily emphasizing Ender's scummy D1 (which had been washed away by D2-3).

Ladd accomplished what I could not in our shared Org game a year ago. gg

But did Ender really vest Visor N1 and stack onto me? I didn't catch the reveal if there was one.

ender vested and shot visor, syn shot you

[Hally]

damn ggwp everyone

i definitely would have gotten that wrong lol

amazing F3

[Sleep]

gg all, great effort ender, couldn't get it over the finish line but this was always going to be an uphill battle after D1

sorry i couldn't be more useful, i simply had no spark this game and not being able to be present for EOD didn't help. i kind of feel like even if i had played a better game not a lot changes - felt like the yeets that happened were more or less inevitable, at best i could have bought myself another day or two


i don't regret going for the risky N1 play - in hindsight, maybe it wasn't the right call, but at the time with the info we had i think it made sense - i knew ender was going to get pressured a lot for his day 1 and i wasn't really going to be able to townclear myself. in that light we needed to take a risk to have a hope of winning, but the difficulty was always going to be the final day. i'm not sure there was a true path to victory after day 1 but it was fun to try

[ladd]

The n1 play was def the best move imo

As i said if you mix up the nks you probably win and even like this it was super close

With no n1 play ender dies d2 prob and then game would have probably been over in 2-3 days after

[Zack]

gg

[Cape90]

GGs everyone! Should have considered that Ender was fake, just felt like 2 town PRs felt right.

[Gemma]

yes the night actions were

N1:
Ender vests Visor
Syn shoots Monty
Gira shoots Visor
N2:
Ender shoots Taffy
N3:
Ender shoots Syn
N4:
Ender shoots Visor
N5:
Ender shoots Suibian

[Gemma]

gg all, great effort ender, couldn't get it over the finish line but this was always going to be an uphill battle after D1

sorry i couldn't be more useful, i simply had no spark this game and not being able to be present for EOD didn't help. i kind of feel like even if i had played a better game not a lot changes - felt like the yeets that happened were more or less inevitable, at best i could have bought myself another day or two


i don't regret going for the risky N1 play - in hindsight, maybe it wasn't the right call, but at the time with the info we had i think it made sense - i knew ender was going to get pressured a lot for his day 1 and i wasn't really going to be able to townclear myself. in that light we needed to take a risk to have a hope of winning, but the difficulty was always going to be the final day. i'm not sure there was a true path to victory after day 1 but it was fun to try

it was very likely not what i would have done as a wolf there but i think it was the move that gave the team best winning chances in hindsight, i think later kills could've gone different ways probably shooting into jan going into f3 wins more often than other kills, but yeah n1 not a mistake imo. and thanks for playing we all have off games so don't be too hard on yourself, your posts were good when you were making them

[Suibian]

gg wp everybody

so glad that Jan and Ladd were able to sync up in f3! That was amazing!

I very much enjoyed playing with all of you. It was nice that even though it was a 48/24, it was slow enough paced that I could fit it into my schedule.

Thank you for running it Gemma!