MTW Historical Re-enacttment Battles

[Alrowan]

Well tonight i come off the field after having fought at Acre and at Poitiers. The french turned history arround at poitiers, and the crusaders won on the shores of acre, vs the muslim with handguns

both battles were epic, and both were fought within guidlines

for Poitiers, the english were required to use longbows as thier ranged weapons, and the french x-bows, the french were cav heavy, and the english infantry heavy. It was a well fought fight, and would be good to play it again

at Acre, the crusader armies (england and france only) lined up on the shores with thier armies (50% min crusader units) vs the turks and egypt. The battle was hard fought, but the franks gained the coastal flank with a great charge, and soon the epic battle was fought to a close

Why am i writing all this you might ask? well Kyle and I have thought it would be good to run some more re-enacments of some great battles in multiplayer. So this is a call for ideas and rules.

[ShadesWolf]

Great idea, we have tried over at OOOO, but never had much success.

We did start to rewrite Agincourt

- new map
- new stats

Tested it a few times, but that is as far as we got

Please keep us informed.

[Alrowan]

weve had a few more games... all are basic rules so most people can enjoy them

[ErikJansen]

Other lovely scenarios would be 4 russian defenders taking on the HRE Alexander Nevski style (winter campaign), Acre crusade castle siege, the fall of Constantinople (pretty lovely challenge if you love beating odds).....

Meself and MK_Henry_V have done 4v4 Agincourt re-enactments, tho without the unit restrictions/requirements... and believe me it was great fun seeing the Frogs make their revenge historicaly

Turcopoles in High rule

[Stormer]

id love this idea so people would be able to watch what really happened at agioncourt but wouldnt u need stuff from the battle saying exactly what happeneed and when.

[Shahed]

I'm In. Tried this when the game came out with existing maps e.g a desert skirmish, Crusaders hold a town, Muslim raiders attack...... Leignitz, the attacking armies have to march thru to the other side of the map, the defenders must ambush from both sides of the road.

The idea was not so much victory but an awesome replay to watch after

We could have much simpler battles as well, with particular points to be held on the maps. We could post the rulkes, objectives, game name, password, time, here in this thread.

[Shahed]

So when do we start I'm available tomorrow night 20:00 - 03:00 GMT.

Here's what I propose (hypothetical):

-2vs2 or 3vs3
-Desert Map
-Attackers --> Crusaders (English French) vs defenders --> Egyptians
-Attackers have to transit the map from one end to the other to win
-Attackers outnumber defenders, lets say combined force 32 vs 28 units
-Attackers armies must consist of 60% Crusader troops of which 70% must be foot
-Defenders armies must consist of 70% cavalry troops, of which 50% must be horse archers


Add/delete/suggest at will.

[Alrowan]

well sinan, the crusader armies are very capable of winning in the desert... ill have to send out acre replay

[ShadesWolf]

The idea with Agincourt was to use historic data, units, army make up, numbers, etc and then try and replay the actual events.To see how it could replay.

The first problem we came across was the lack of stakes, so we went about doing that.

The next thing I found was the map was the wrong way round, so I have corrected that.

They we decided that Longbows were not powerful enough, so we corrected that.

[ErikJansen]

I'm up for that Sinan, count me in

As for the Agincourt 4v4's we done earlier they weren't very historically accurate, part from the fact that we let the Frogs attack and the English defend

[Shahed]

Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ May 05 2003,17:57)]Add/delete/suggest at will.

Well it's just an example to get things going. Clans are good since you have a pool of experienced players able to act in cohesion. As such all clans are welcome of course.

Please do make suggestions, we could just start off with a game with some unit restrictions. How about HRE vs Polish. My idea is just to have some games while we are researching battles and modding the game to play those battles (if necessary).

For a Crusader battle we could use the Crusader Wars mod, for Agincourt we could use the modifications suggested by Wolf. We could use the Italian Wars for a battle between HRE & Italy.

My ideas are flexible, so just fire away.

About tomorrow Erik I guess for that battle we just need 2 more players.

All Welcome to The Arena as always.

*Salute*

[Shahed]

Just wanted to add that I believe there are clans out there who can easily take up the challenge of ambushing a march to Jerusalem. Nevertheless, let's not make this exclusive to anyone, All Welcome.

I'll play Crusader with pleasure. It will make for a great game, and a memorable replay.

[Sjakihata]

Hey

Talked with ErikJansen on the TW chat. He talked me into this

So I am up for it tomorrow (tuesday at 20 cet).

See you there

EDIT:

Quote[/b] ]I'll play Crusader with pleasure.

Sorry, you can't. Me and Erik need you for a Ottoman trio

[Shahed]

WOW great we need 3 more, or 2 if we want 2vs2. I'm honored you choose me as ally. *bows*

[PrithviRaj Chauhan]

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot?
I am in
muahahahahahaha

[ErikJansen]

I'm posting a notice about this in the Ravens forum, so we can expect some more avid desert dwellers to join us. We've recruited some lately, and if these times suit we should be able to field three or so Ravens

As for the game suggestions I've some ideas swirling about in this thick skull of mine, but we can better discuss that online

Louis had a great idea with the Russians vs HRE wintertime Alexander Nevski style scenario. How about it Louis? You coming or what?

Edit: I'll pop on around 20 CET

[starkhorn]

Just have to say that being involved in both the acre and poiters battles were great fun.

Most certainly two of the most enjoyable battles that I've encountered in my short time in the MP community eveb despite the fact of getting decimated in the acre battle.

Great fun and a great idea.....Can I have some more please sir ??

Cheers
starkhorn

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

20 CET is a nono for me... Way too early for me guys.

Map; Flatinland 22
Season; Winter, and you can hear the wolves...

That is the easy part... Now the trouble started... Pick up an era...

Army composition;

HRE to be true to the movie, 25 % Teutonic Knights... 25 % other order troops. No pav arb. other 50% whatever.

Russian is tougher...

Let me know what you think about it... But I like winter battle and snow storm...

Too bad there is no ice on the lake...

Louis,

[Alrowan]

sounds like this is al going really well.

im looking into the battles of the first crusade at the moment, and i am going ot start to organise an online campagin. This will simply be a chain of battles, one path will obviously be historically accurate, but im working on the campagin so as to have the "what if" factor.... so it will be a branched campagin with several possible outcomes. There will be rules and such as well.

Ill post more on this tonight when i get home.

[ShadesWolf]

If you are going to do any Agincourt battles please let me know.... As I and Tarrak would be interested.

[Alrowan]

will do mate, im home now so im beggining my research into a crusader campagin...

[ShadesWolf]

INFORMATION ON BATTLE OF AGINCOURT

The battle of Agincourt, was between the French and the English in 1415.

English force - 6000
- 5000 longbows
- 1000 Men-at-arms

French force - 30,400 (approx)
- Three battles
made up of
- Battle one
-- 8000 Men-at-arms
-- 1600 Cav
- Battle two
-- 6000 Men-at-arms
-- 4000 Archers & Crossbows
- Battle Three
-- 10000 Cav.



This is one of the re-drafts of the map I did.....

ShadesWolfs Redraft of Agoncourt battle map

MY suggestions would be use the above army make up on the original map first, and see how it plays. The battle is ok for a 2V3 or even a 3v4, you need at least 2 english.

when you decide that it is to easy for the French then you need to re-mod the battle, to do this add Stakes, and change the stats to make longbows more powerful.....

[Kongamato]

Hey

Let me suggest you try re-enacting the battle of Dorylaeum, one of the first major battles between Crusaders and Turks. It seemed to involve both of the essential strategies of the Crusaders and Muslims. It is a battle with a good story behind it, involving horsearchers, dismounted knights, peasants, "one rash commander and 40 followers", and last but not least heat fatigue, turtling, and flanking maneuvers.


Here is an article from Military History magazine describing it.

It may require a special map to play it, but this battle is sure worth re-enacting.

[Alrowan]

thanks for the links and such

Dorylaeum was going to be my starting point for the crusade MP campagin

[Shahed]

Yep that's one I thought about last night as well.
It will be awesome.

About tonight 20:00 CET. I will post:

-unit regulations
-game name
-password
-objectives

All this right here in this thread around 19:20 CET tonight 06/05/03.

Hope to see you guys tonight.

*Salute*

[Shahed]

If you need to get in touch and the links below don't work or something use email/msn:

katsujin_ken@hotmail.com

[LRossaLordJimi]

Very interesting idea We can play also some historical campagne of SP,Barbarossa in Italy for example.
Ave

[Alrowan]

the first of my campagins is now open

i would like some skilled players to sign up as the crusading faction. I have in mind my turks, so if your a turk diehard, post your interest as well.

The aim is to get 3 crusading players to beat back the turks to win the hoily land. The battle should culmunate in the fall of jerulelam, but should the turks eventually drive the crusaders back...

[Shahed]

Alro I signed up for the Turks, but please feel free to shuffle me into Crusaders if you deem fit.

[ErikJansen]

Many great ideas here

If anyone wants to work at recreating a historical battle, the way YOU envision it, why not post your ideas and setups here for everyone to see? Then we could debate it or agree on times to meet and play it out.

I'd love to hear what the Honorable LordJimi had in mind for the Barbarossa in Italy scenario

Edit: I downloaded your Agincourt map ShadesWolf, so I'm set and prepared for that one methinks.

Edit2: I'll be in the foyer tonight around 20.00 CET Sinan