Let's talk about Thief

[Quessa]

Most of us know Thief series (The Dark Project or the sequel, Metal Age), the best of us have played the game and those who haven't shall either run straight into the nearest local games' market (or like me, take a bus to the nearest big town) or perform seppuku without further thinking.

Thief was probably the first game that took sneaking along with an idea of remaining undetected deeper then any other game before (seriously, forget the Nethack or those other old-scholar games) and thus fonding a completely new gaming genre. Thief is the best, isn't it?

Now, Ion Storm (the developers of the Deus Ex series) is developing the second sequel of Thief, apparently called Thief: The Deadly Shadows. At this point I always begin to lose my temper. Thief: The Deadly Shadows? What happened to those three slashes resembling that this truly is a SEQUEL

Secondly, I begin to hate the idea of having 3rd view ingame (ha, I bet they're soon announcing game-engine rendered cutscenes in-game).

Dagger? Why dagger? Why not a trustful sword, common to the older and original (as developed by Looking Glass) sword? What's wrong here? I understand dagger but I don't understand why couldn't he wield them both or depending on case, a peice of iron he happens to choose?

Water not swimmable? Bleh, this kind of terminates that atmosphere of the older games when Garrett would end up being pursued by the enemy guards and saving his a**e by jumping into that cold water and vanishing into the sewers or the other side of a canal.

___

Ok, that was for the cons part.

Personally, I love the graphics and find them particularly more interesting then Far Cry's (another top-notch graphics-advertising game). But should the screw up with those sounds, well, it isn't too hard to send a bomb-letter is it?

Anyhoos, I'll keep my tiny thumbs up for those IS guys .

[Lehesu]

Are you serious about the water thing? That can't be possible

[Quessa]

Aye, it will be there but not as a game-space. That's what I've read, straight from the top (null was the name of that peep).
Water should have reflections and it acts like water when shot at (by arrows obviously) but there will be some kind of a restriction (I believe it'll be either some wacky über-fences or then the player simply CAN'T pass the boarder between the water and the surface).

Or then Garrett has some kind of Jeesu abilities, GAH

And I forgot one thing from my original post, Thief III won't have rope arrows either, Garrett will be wielding wall-climbing gloves.

Hullo, I'm the not-so-friendly neighbourhood Spider-Thief passing through

[gaelic cowboy]

Yah 3rd view will be in but 1st person is there as well so it wont matter much.

[Cebei]

Quessa you got a drink on me for this incredible news AT LAST THIEF 3 Yipeeeeeee

But actually I couldnt see toooo much new things brought into the game, at least nothing that can compensate for the long time weve been waiting. I can understand the water thing but the rope arrows were most unique.. GAH

Looking glass studios were better IMO

[Quessa]

Cebei, I back you, LGS were better (while we don't know for certain yet, obviously). And then, I prefer a big glass of cold ale straight from Germany, not that bloody warm liquid from Britannia (while that Irish stuff kicks a**e).

Some screenshots.

This MIGHT hurt a little...
Now don't thou look behind thyself..
Yup, it's me, ol' good Garrett, lost my cloak tho
Now is this concept or in-game picture?
Wacky lighting effects
Secret Agent Garrett Stabber performing a stylish stealth-kill (Splinter Cell anyone?)
Nasty dagger.. Now is that a bottle of booze on the right edge?

[Sir Moody]

as i understand it Garret isnt so helpless in this one he supposed to be stronger and be able to fight reasonable well - this is the biggest let down in my opinion the whole fun part of the First and Second games was the fact he was a thief not a super hero he could take on one Guard if he was careful but more than one and hed be in a world of hurt - it made you sneek around and dispose of guards on the stealth you couldnt throw yourself at your enemys you had to think...

[Fragony]

It gets worse......no rope arrows Instead he gets some lame wallclimbing glove. They are transforming him into a medieval spidermen.

I repeat, no rope arrows.

Ah enough I can't talk about thief without extreme fanboyism, and that gets annoying ;)(edit: see, someone allready mentioned the rope arrow and I didn't even notice it) I hope those IS guys don't f*ck it up like they did with Deus-ex

[frogbeastegg]

Well this was going to be my 1,000 post dedicated to the game I got my name from but I helped someone in the Entrance Hall so it's 1,001 instead. Ooops

This topic lists the many reasons why I am not really taking any notice of Thief III until it comes out - if it is good I shall be buying it, if it is as bad as it sounds I shall pick it up for £5 budget in a year or two. If it is even worse I shall ignore it totally and command my fellow frog beasts to attack Ion Storm headquarters

Not being able to go in water is not something I have heard of, a stupid idea. Now I can't repeat the surreal feat of being chased around underwater by a guard in chain mail who doesn't notice he is drowning until he keels over.

I hate the way they have made him more combat able - this is coming from someone who plays Thief in sheer terror of dying I would rather die over and over again having a near heart attack each time Garrett starts to drop to the floor than be a combat ready thief. There is something incredibly uplifting about fleeing in terror, moving as fast as you can and trying to go faster, hearing your feet striking the floor so loudly as you nearly fly along trying to put your bow away so you can go still faster, then diving into cover and waiting. Waiting. Waiting and watching as the guards run into the area close on your heels and start searching, calling out for you to show yourself, coming closer and closer as you hold your breath and hope they down take that extra step forward, knowing there is no where to run this time...

Spider Garrett, not good.

Anyone else hate the new hud? The light gem is ugly and that huge compass is going to distract me because it will be spinning around all the time. I never needed or used the compass in the existing thief games. Hope there is some kind of toggle for that.

The dagger I can just about live with...maybe. I admit it - I have a thing for sword fighting and daggers just aren't the same They say the dagger makes him more thief like and encourages the player to be stealthy because they can't fight as well as the guards, then they say Garrett's combat power has been beefed up?

I think they only need to bring a handful of things from the previous games to the new one to make it successful, sadly those things are the hardest to create. Tension. Atmosphere. Story. A living, breathing world. Comedy. Detail. Style.

[Basileus]

Sad thing is that this could have been a good game but it will propably suck

[Quessa]

BTW, it appears that in nearly every screen-capture we see from the game, Garrett is always about to kill/knock out someone.

Where's the old and original Thief atmosphere. I truly wish that this game won't be influenced by games like Deus Ex .

[Fragony]

If they get the atmosphere right I 'may' be able to live with the changes. Why they decided to remove the coolest feature to ever grace a game (the rope arrow) is beyond me. I hate the idea of climbing gloves, it will probably become a 'feature game' instead of creative thinking. Oh look a wall, I wonder what I should do there =(
If Thief will have the same sinister feeling as the previous games (more Thief1 then 2) I could be happy. I actually felt I was 'there' in Thief1 (the old quarters of the city and the boneheart were just dripping with atmosphere, oh I love the undead), and I have never been so terrified in a game, not even in system shock2. damnit there I go again. Someone help me ;)

ps, anyone here playing the (oh so gorgeous) fanmissions?

[Quessa]

Sign me up, fanmissions here as well.

Anyone tried out that Embracing the Enemy or Equilibrium? Apart from the textures and other graphical stuff those levels were just , especially Embracing the Enemy, a way too good level to spoil (although it's only a fan-level).

Inverted Mansion, however, I disliked. While it's been graced with the Golden Hammer awards and things like that, I've never liked the map. Gets me on Buffy the Slayer mood when those poor corpse-gnawers fall by a sword slash. The rest-end of the level was pretty breath-taking IMHO, but still I didn't find it as the best map for Thief, no sir.

PS, I strongly recommend the peeps here to check out Thief: The Circle of Stone and Shadow website, which's basic idea is pretty much similar to Org's, one of the best (if not the best) fansites for Thief series out there.

[Fragony]

I loved the inverted manse, but a golden hammer may have been an little too much honour. It was however very refreshing to have a undead mission after those stupid robots of Thief2. I loved the new haunts The other goldie 'Calendra's legacy' deserves platina. If you haven't played that one you should be shot.

[Quessa]

I bet that Calendra's Legacy was the one of approx. 300Mb of downloading for Thief 2?

I tried the older part of Calendra's (can't catch the name) for Thief: The Dark Project and that was some good stuff, that's for sure.

Or I don't know for sure, what was the general plot in the Legacy then? I remember I didn't download it in the past hence I had 56kb connection, but for I now have 512kb I might give it a try.

[Fragony]

You won't regret it, it is actually better then any original mission imho, and you HAVE to ghost some parts. It is truely a masterpiece.

[Quessa]

Um, now I remember Calendra's Legacy was the one with that creepy old mansion and those scary catacombs, right?

Aye, I second you on that Fragony, everyone should try out Calendra's Legacy.

Mmm, there were some more of those brilliant FMs.. Got to visit The-Circle again, that's for sure

[Fragony]

That is the seventh chrystal you are describing, Calendra's Legacy is more of the free roaming aproach. It actually does a better job of making a city seem alive then the lookingglass team did with 'Life of the party'.

Who said games can't be art ^^

[Quessa]

Bleh, I know one as I went down to the Circle . Started to download Calendra's Legacy though .

I hope that the Author of Calendra series will make some FMs for Thief III as well . And now I remember the name of the older Calendra story, Calendra's Cistern, awesome story, breath-taking city and well designed gameplay.

[TonkaToys]

What format is this out on?
3rd person...
Simplified interaction...
More emphasis on combat...
More restrictive environment...

Sounds like they are lining it up for Consoles to me.
Not that I mind consoles, I've got a PS2; but they do dumb down games.

PCs just give you far more flexibility, and you can't beat the keyboard/mouse interface.

[frogbeastegg]

Thief I and II are PC only, now available on budget. Thief III is going to be PC and X-box just like Deus Ex 2. For games like Thief the PC cannot be beat, consoles don't have that fine control and multitude of keys to bind commands to. Who cares about analogue controlled lock picking when you can't lean forwards and around corners? As far as I know leaning is still in but Deus Ex 2 was missing it and it's the same game engine...

I've never played any of the fan missions - I haven't even finished all the original missions yet I keep having to stop playing for months at a time, then my skills rust so I have to start from mission 1, then I have to stop playing after a few missions, then my skills rust...endless cycle that has been going on since Thief first came out I don't even know how to play fan missions.

[Fragony]

Actually I think that a game like Thief can do very well on a console, the analog control may even be better suited for a sneaker. I don't mind crossplatform releases, as long as the pc version isn't compromised. But I have this nasty feeling in the gut that the 'reaching a broader audience' means dumbing down, but we will see.

Frog, for fanmissions you need to get the darkloader from www.thief-thecircle.com, happy taffin.

[TonkaToys]

The closest thing to Thief on a console was Metal Gear Solid wasn't it?
I've got it but not yet played it... but I've seen it played and it didn't look so sneaky as the king of the sneak'em'ups, good old Thief.

Why is it that consoles don't like 1st person viewpoints for these games?

It is these little things that compromise console games.

[Fragony]

Hmmm splinter cell was pretty sneaky, but was unlike Thief a set path. Makes it more a puzzle game then a sneaker, same with metal gear solid. Not bad games at all, but there can only be one. Consoles are just suited for different kind of games, I have a nintende for some quality 'simple' fun, first person games are just better on pc with high resolutions. Thief may work though, it is a slow game. Being able to move precisely as slow and quiet as you want is only possible with a console-like pad.

[frogbeastegg]

I have been to thief the circle and I've got darkloader and I am downloading Cassandra's legacy...only 3 and a bit hours until it is finished. Slow pipeline, my poor old broadband is wasted There are loads of other missions there that look good, all smaller but still on a slow pipeline. Oh well, looks like another few days of starting downloads and leaving the computer unattended. Joy.

[Quessa]

Frogbeastegg, I can only recommend levels like The 7th Crystal, Embracing the Enemy, Equilibrium (an excellent choice when you want something different for a change)

[The Wizard]

This game kind of reeks of the Deus Ex 2 virus. :\



~Wiz