Shogun Total War mod for MTW-VI

[barocca]

we all know what Shogun is,
it's late, i'm tired,
a rough beta will be out for testing soon,

so heres some pics...

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[Antalis::]

Looks great .


Do you also plan, to implementate that you can fight against european forces (I know it would be not historical correct then, but would be a nice feature) (Portugise?), invade japan?


Oh, wow, you´ve implementated ships


Antalis::

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (Antalis:: @ Sep. 21 2003,07:54)]Looks great :D .


Do you also plan, to implementate that you can fight against european forces (I know it would be not historical correct then, but would be a nice feature) (Portugise?), invade japan?


Antalis:: :wave:

not yet,
let me get Shogun mod working first,

it is still rough, i am currently bug fixing castles

can't make any promises for time, i work 10hr shifts,
was hoping to have a beta today, but the castles bit me...

[barocca]

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the viking ship has been replaced in the latest test version by one especially made for the mod

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[Lord Of Storms]

Greetngs B, Looks like all your hard work is paying off The Mod looks great looking forward to playing this, it has such a totally different look to it, I cant wait.and I dont play many Mods of late or MTW for that matter. LOS

[amagi]

Looks good

What size are the units going to be, the same as Shogun 1.03, or all 60 on normal?

When I was writing about the campaigns I was working on for Shogun I suggested that the maps could be easily replaced with large maps, if there were enough large maps. What maps do you intend to use for your mod? I started work on a replacement Hitachi without its characteristic large wooded hill that makes every defensive battle into mountainous highlands, but it was taking too long for me to do all sixty alone.

[CBR]

Looks good Barocca

CBR

[Díaz de Vivar]

Impresive

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 21 2003,11:15)]Looks good

What size are the units going to be, the same as Shogun 1.03, or all 60 on normal?

It is entirely possible to have multiple campaigns available, in a similar vein to early, late, high.
The unit sizes can also be set in seperate unit_prod files.
It is my hope to have a set of unit/prod stats as close as possible to original Shogun stats, a set for the mongol invasions, and a few custom sets.
I am hoping that during beta testing we can define a specific set for online play.

Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 21 2003,11:15)]When I was writing about the campaigns I was working on for Shogun I suggested that the maps could be easily replaced with large maps, if there were enough large maps. What maps do you intend to use for your mod? I started work on a replacement Hitachi without its characteristic large wooded hill that makes every defensive battle into mountainous highlands, but it was taking too long for me to do all sixty alone.

Unfortunately i have not discovered how to assign a single map to a single province, but i can assign a map folder from which battles can be fought.
Also i can assign specific castles to specific provinces and specific castle map sets to specific castles.

I have made a model pack for MTW, i intend to update that to VI including a gateless enclosure - similar to the warrior hold enclosure.

A few shogun map conversions already exist, i'll be having a look at those and changing any models on them to Shogun models,
but i am not a map maker, it is my hope that once i have the model pack finished members of the community will "convert" their favourite shogun maps for this mod.


Many people are contributing to this mod, making portrait sets, info pics and the like, there is still plenty of "polish" to add to the mod, and an unpolished beta version will be out soon.

[Wellington]

Hi B,

This looks very impressive. I'm eagerly awaiting your release of this as I hope to utilise your hard work by checking the VI files you've created for the campaign map stuff and adding the necessary support into LMM.

Two questions, regarding the maps -

1) how are you planning to offer the map TGA's? via a 45meg download or via a smaller download that may be resized?

2) do you have anything to convert the STW BP8 map format into a TGA (or even a BMP)?

Welly

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Sep. 21 2003,15:18)]Hi B,

This looks very impressive. I'm eagerly awaiting your release of this as I hope to utilise your hard work by checking the VI files you've created for the campaign map stuff and adding the necessary support into LMM.

Two questions, regarding the maps -

1) how are you planning to offer the map TGA's? via a 45meg download or via a smaller download that may be resized?

2) do you have anything to convert the STW BP8 map format into a TGA (or even a BMP)?

Welly

Hi Welly,

i am hoping the script files i made for this mod will help you define same for LMM, i actually used LMM to get the origins, borders, castles and ports and to create the lukmap files,
then i copied the scipt data across into a viking startpos file.

For the tga map downloads that is something i am going to have to research, what is the best way to convert the file so that a resized image remains as close to a perfect copy as possible?

For the Shogun map i used Fodders as a test set, but i did extract the tgas from the bp8 formats and edit those for the final version.

There should be a bp8 decompressor in the tools downloads and THERE is a copy in your email inbox too
:-)

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (barocca @ Sep. 21 2003,15:34)]For the Shogun map i used Fodders as a test set, but i did extract the tgas from the bp8 formats and edit those for the final version.

There should be a bp8 decompressor in the tools downloads and THERE is a copy in your email inbox too
:-)

For the tga map downloads that is something i am going to have to research, what is the best way to convert the file so that a resized image remains as close to a perfect copy as possible?


I have a few thoughts about this B. I'll E-mail you with a few simple suggestions you may wish to try out and see what the consequent loss of resolution is.

Ideally, if I knew the format of a BP8 graphics image, considering many recipients of your mod will already have Shogun it could be a good idea to allow the recipients of your mod to recreate the large TGA's on their own PC's - (via LMM or another small utility).

Ok, I know you've had to amend the image to add the sea region borders but this is'nt really a big problem - the csImageFile software that LMM utilises has a merge function and such a 'problem' with modders having to amend 'standard' maps can be circumvented quite easily. Think of it like this. If we have a small tool (or LMM) that performs merging of images upon images (be they maps or anything) then you can -

1) allow the user to convert the BP8 to a BMP on his own PC (providing he has STW)
2) provide another 24-bit BMP in the download that is the same size as your Shogun map and is just a plain white background but with the drawn sea borders on (ok the BMP may be up to 36 meg - but, considering the sea borders take up so little proportion of the BMP, when zipped it will be less that 60K or so). Try zipping the 30+ meg "Ref_Features.txt" that LMM produces for large maps - you'll see what I mean.
3) LMM or another small utility can do the merging of the users STW map, and your additional BMP that outlines the sea borders.

The result. Small downloads but exactly the same map image as the modder (you ) have residing on your PC.

LMM5 already offers the merging facilites.

If, however, the recipient does'nt have STW - we are back to providing an alternatiove downbload that does'nt lose too much resolution.

Expect an E-mail B.

Welly

[rory_20_uk]

OHMYGOD It looks AMAZING And you've even done the map... I am speechless Congratulations - I can hardly wait to play it Oh, is it installed alongside MTW, or does it require alterations to the existing maps???

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (rory_20_uk @ Sep. 21 2003,16:24)]is it installed alongside MTW, or does it require alterations to the existing maps???

off to work soon so i cant get into too many details,

at this time it is still my intention that this is an expansion mod,
you will still be able to play vikings and medieval,

i am still trying to solve the castles bug, i have already determined that you can have no more than seven different campaign map castle pieces, the flag position command in the campaign script chucks a wobbly at more than seven,
i have got 4 of my seven castles functioning, i suspect my problems were simply an errant comma in the build prod file, but that will have to wait 12 hours till i get home from work...

[Eastside Character]

No doubt this MOD will rock
Barocca - you're the man

[Trousermonkey]

This is great I've been waiting for something like this to come along.

I'll be watching this space to see how it turns out.

Tm

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

This look awesome. I'll probably install another VI so I can make some new bif textures and add some factions

[dlundie]

makes me happy to see mods like this coming..glad i am a total war fan.

[todaswarriors]

HeHeHe....happy days....
I like it
"& about time 2"...been a long time coming...
leaves dribbling...muwhaaaa
Goes looking in kitchen for matches to set soup pot alight once again...
Nice 1 B
A "must" download of 2003

[AggonyShim2]

time out ok let me make sure i am getting this right... this is a mod for VI that will include a Shogun campaign? barocca i must say that the grahics look incredible plus i like how the spears do if this is only for VI... i will have to step up my efforts to earn money

[BDC]

Looks fun, might not be worth buying Warlords Edition now... Well it's only a fiver. Good job anyway

[amagi]

Barocca,
I've had a look at the 'classic' Shogun maps included in the latest medieval mappack and they just seem to use the original files, so the textures don't match. If you were just going to use random maps from a few map folders that might work, correcting the problems like the Shinano 'cliff' and the Mutsu 'wall' which makes some provinces very difficult for the AI to attack.

Shogun has an excellent interface and runs smoothly, and is also very atmospheric with the mini-movies, music and fog. Apart from the emissary and port 'bug' (is there a mod that stops this?) the major problems are the maps and the AI strategy. The first will take a lot of work to produce sixty quality maps, the second takes a lot of playing and testing and changing numbers. Larger maps with flatter hills and more river crossings would be easier for the battle AI, which makes the campaign better balanced. Better strategy is just fewer attacks and better building choices, so that the game isn't over in the first three years when two of the clans go out over-expanding and causing rebellions.

How much of the original game are you going to attempt to get into Medieval? Are you going to be able to keep features like the seasons rather than the years? If I was going to make a lot of maps for a new Shogun campaign they wouldn't convert to Medieval. A combination of the two games could be better than both of them, but I wouldn't want to lose Shogun's seasons and spy/ninja system to add naval combat and trade.

[barocca]

Fistly some more teaser pics,
i am battling to overcome a few bugs that crept in, as such things do, currently trying to define all the desired units (which is a little awkward)and add names to factions (which is fairly simple)


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Last Ditch Defence

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Rebel Cavalry advancing

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)]Barocca,
I've had a look at the 'classic' Shogun maps included in the latest medieval mappack and they just seem to use the original files, so the textures don't match. If you were just going to use random maps from a few map folders that might work, correcting the problems like the Shinano 'cliff' and the Mutsu 'wall' which makes some provinces very difficult for the AI to attack.

The Shogun Tile Sets are available for download, BUT they require an enormous amount of tweaking to bring them up to Medieval standard, the originals are (i think) one quarter the size of MTW tiles,
further MTW has a definate limit on the maximum tiles in a terrain folder, meaning we cant just convert the Shogun tiles and drop them in, i think the limit was either 190 or 200 tiles, i did try this when medieval was released but that was a while ago...
So if someone tweaks some Shogun Tiles up to medieval standard they have a finite limit to work in, meaning some will naturally have to be dropped.

Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)]Shogun has an excellent interface and runs smoothly, and is also very atmospheric with the mini-movies, music and fog.

The mini movie option is not available in the MTW engine.

I can't do anything about atmospherics (fog), those are hardcode, personally i loved playing in fog, some of the old hands around may well remember classic ambushes on fog bound battlefields by me, involving weak decoy forces making frontal assaults while pumped up units made the real assault round the flank...
Shogun featured a "shock" modifier, which i do not think made it into medieval, or if it did it has been reduced somehow, either by units sighting ranges increasing or by the "penalty" being somewhat smaller and applied only to flank attacks. In Shogun the "shock" modifier seemd to work thusly, whereby being charged from any angle by a previously hidden unit that was within normal engagement range caused a morale penalty, many times i watched units with no casualties flee when rushed from close quarters by a hidden unit.

To hear the music you'll need a copy of Warlords, those files are way too large to include in any download.

Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)]Apart from the emissary and port 'bug' (is there a mod that stops this?)

that was both a bug and a feature - seriously,
the AI did use it, but only when the AI could see the port using a watchtower/border fort and had troops elswhere in a province that had a port - i played a lot with matteosartori turned on, the AI did not like committing troops to long distance invasions.
This mod is using the MTW engine, therefore MTW rules apply, ships block invasions, and you cant invade without ships of your own.

Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)] the major problems are the maps and the AI strategy. The first will take a lot of work to produce sixty quality maps, the second takes a lot of playing and testing and changing numbers. Larger maps with flatter hills and more river crossings would be easier for the battle AI, which makes the campaign better balanced. Better strategy is just fewer attacks and better building choices, so that the game isn't over in the first three years when two of the clans go out over-expanding and causing rebellions.

Maps, these cannot be converted direct from Shogun to MTW easily, no-one managed to make a map converter, plus then you have the tiling problems i mentioned earlier,
my hope is to "borrow" some generic maps from medieval, remake them using converted Shogun Models, (which i have made almost all of already, just a few more to go), then i can assign a map folder to the mod.

As for AI strategy, again the MTW engine rules apply.

Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)]How much of the original game are you going to attempt to get into Medieval? Are you going to be able to keep features like the seasons rather than the years? If I was going to make a lot of maps for a new Shogun campaign they wouldn't convert to Medieval.

Seasons will not be imported in this mod, this is an expansion and must use the MTW engine and rules,
later i may make a reskin and overwrite mod, then i could adjust the years to seasons BUT you would stll get a harvest each season - not very realistic IMHO,

Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)]A combination of the two games could be better than both of them, but I wouldn't want to lose Shogun's seasons and spy/ninja system to add naval combat and trade.

I cant do that, that would involve dis-assembly and hardcoding, something not permitted. Besides, thats beyond my skill range anyway.

Did i miss anything?
B.

[amagi]

No, that was a comprehensive reply

I've now realised that if I don't have to have large sized maps I can just try out my theory using edited versions of the original maps, so I've been lowering the terrain to see if the AI improves. There is no bridge texture on the editor for large bridges, just a footbridge, so I haven't been able to make all bridge provinces two bridges, but the entire set should only take me about a week. If none of the multiplayer maps have giant cliffs to get stuck at the bottom of, I don't see why the AI should have to cope with it in SP. I seem to remember that MTW maps are flatter as well, though I'm waiting for the VI patch before I try SP MTW again.

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 24 2003,20:26)]There is no bridge texture on the editor for large bridges, just a footbridge, so I haven't been able to make all bridge provinces two bridges, but the entire set should only take me about a week.

try placing a bridge, even if it looks too short,
then save the map, quit the editor and go back in again,
i seem to remember some glitch with bridges not always "snapping" to the edges of the rivers when you first place them,
let us know if it works,

Will be very glad to have a set of province maps to use especially for the mod,

I really must get into gear and finish my model pack, that will allow some castle conversion maps as well...

[TenkiSoratoti]

I can imagine the stress of bringing those tile sets up to MTW BIF standard, very well done
I will not only have a seperate installation for NTW, I will also have one for Shogun

TP