Map Update: Scandinavian regions done.
Map
What do the crosses mean? Looks damned good, very representative of the historical reach of the vikings.
NORSEMAN -känner jag dig från 'asatrulore' kanske?
Crosses are unpasable regions of mountains/wilderness. Will be like Frankland in VIOriginally Posted by [b
Thanks Nice to hear, because that is the goal of the mod.
Probably not, cause I didn't even know about the place until you askedI'll take a closer look at it later though, it looked interesting.
Fury of the Northmen mod
LoS, this Mod is still active, we're just not posting much. Should this thread be moved to Edit3 as well?
Fury of the Northmen mod
Done, moved to Edit3 you may follow this topic there...LOS
Taking life one day at a time!
Do you have any screenshots?
Antalis
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CHIEF ARCHITECT
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We're working on two things at the moment. I'm planning tech-trees, unit rosters and other background work, while the strat-map is in the hands of PseRamesses. He will do some more changes to it, and when he is done we will hopefully be ready to make the LBM strategy map and post some more screenshots.
Fury of the Northmen mod
Just to let you all know that work is in progress as stated in Norsemans post above. We have both been sick, musta been from the mushroms we had in the mead-hall at the latest home-comming party for our victorious raiders.
We had an idea for a speacial feature or unit for this mod but haven´t got around to solve it. I call it The raiding-party and what we would like to do is to make a crusade-unit to raid shore- and inland provinces with rivers from the sea.
The problems are numerous like the hardcoded Crusade-unit, attacking inland provinces that have a river in it from the sea etc etc. If anyone of you brilliant guys can solve this, make suggestions or be of any assistant it would be greatly appreciated and as a reward we offer an invitation to our mead-festival at midsummers-eve.
Now that would be very Intersting Indeed to sea, also vey scary if your the defender though
I WANT ROME - TOTAL WAR
That´s the meaning of it but I´m afraid it looks impossible to pull off. That´s why the cry for help since I know that this feature will be a killer.Quote[/b] (Sir Zack de Caldicot @ Mar. 23 2004,06:35)]Now that would be very Intersting Indeed to sea, also vey scary if your the defender though
Maybe too much of a Killer
Anyway, couldn't renaming the crusade and give it some Viking only units and make only the vikings be able to make them work, possibly include some ships work. Tell me more about what you wnat this crusade to do and I'll do my best
I WANT ROME - TOTAL WAR
As my man Norseman is the code-hacker he found 4 major obstacles to make this come true:
I) Crusade is defined as a CATHOLIC cultural thing. There are two different solutions for this:
a) Everything related to catholic must be converted to appear pagan, and we must find a replacement for the catholic. However this implies that we can't use the correct strategy AI behavior. That is BARBARIAN_RAIDER for viking factions and CATHOLIC_something for most others.
b) Try to change the Crusade unit into a pagan unit. This is by far the best solution when considering workload. However, I don't know if a faction with the BARBARIAN_RAIDER strategy AI is capable of using a crusade. My guess is that it is not, as it wasn't meant to be.
II) There are 4 regions that are hardcoded to be more likely to attract crusades: Jerusalem, Tripoli, Antioch and Edessa. We don't know where LMM will redestribute these regions on our remade strategy map.
III) The biggest problem though is that to launch a crusade you need a POPE faction in the game.
IV) If we rather try to use the Jihad, which will solve all the above problems, we will have the hardcoded limitation that you can only raid regions you have lost earlier in the game.
What we would like this unit to do is,
1. The raider-unit should work in a satisfactory similar way as the original crusade if possible.
2. The unit should have the ability to travel even seasquares, without the required ships, to reach selected target.
3. The unit should be able to attack inland-provinces IF that region contains a river. Ex: The Swedish raids through Russia.
HEY NORSEM AN IF U NEED HELP WIT ANY STUFF I CAN HELP OHG YEAH THE MOD LOOKS VERY GOOOD
Hi JAY THE CONQUEROR
A little bit of help would be nice Do you have any modding experience, or any other skill you think can be useful?
Fury of the Northmen mod
Do you have any screenies to show us? Good luck with the mod, I'm sure it will be great
i do hav a fair bit of modding experience, but i dont release my stuff cos i probably wouldnt interest anyone, plus i know a dogpile about history and stoof, my msn name is JayDaConqueror@hotmail.com
I must say I like the sound of this mod, being from the north myself and with a keen interest in the viking era, and I hope you can pull it off. I'm looking forward to some screenshots. Nice division of the Scandinavian regions by the way.
Polyphemos,
Nice to get the aproval of a countryman. Screens are comming. First of all I´d like you to know that both Norse and I are more into this mod for the reason of historical accuracy rather than speed and both of us don´t have unlimited time on our hands to finish this. We are both keen on releasing this befor RTW comes out though. If you think you can contribute in anyway please feel free to drop Noreseman a line. Take care... och glad påsk
Yes, there most defenitely will be. Basically you´ll find the factions of the original VI game. We´re also looking into adding provinces on Ireland, maybee a new faction there. On main land Europe you´ll find factions from France to Russia. We haven´t decided yet of how many factions we´re going to include since it´s a question of game-balance. I know Norse and many of you players agree that including as many factions, as kingdoms - major or petty, from the viking time period would be the best thing since we both have the ambition to portary our ancestors world in the best way possible.
You can choose to play three different viking factions: Danish, Norvegian and Swedish plus the other factions available, starting with one or more provinces. The goal should be to unify your respective kingdoms and raid/ conquer others.
Regarding inland European and Russian provinces they shouldn´t be able to conquer. We´re on the other hand looking in to the possibility to create a unique raider unit, much like the crusade unit in MTW so that you can raid inland provinces that has a river in it. Since you can´t conquer the entire map and GA-goals are hardcoded we´ll have to satisfy you guys with a 60% win situation, sorry, if we won´t come up with a better idea before the release date that is. Basically we´re aiming at the maximum amount of provinces and if it´s doable the maximum amount of factions with a completely new tech-tree - makes you drool, huh?
Work in progress: Norse is buried in the text files, I´m making the strategy map and Norse mailed me a portion of the sheilds yesterday.
The strat-map covers Scandinavia up to the region of Trondheim in the north, Ireland in the west, Novgorod in the east and Paris in the south. The problem is that we actually have to tilt the map some 8-12 degrees to the east to avoid including as many inland russian provinces as possible which causes a visual disturbance since the viewer is not used to se the map in this fashion. Some parts are wrongfully going to be widened, ex. the Northumbrian part of England, and some enlargened, ex Ireland, Manau, Gotland etc.
We´ll post the basic strat-map here shortly. Then I´m going to re-work the graphics of the strat-map to give you a completely new ambience of the game. What I´m aiming for is a mor CIV III-feel in apearence.
Just dropping of a few lines before I leave on easter vacation.
EC, I'm having trouble finding any good info on what was going on in Prussia/Poland in the timeframe 800-1100. Was there any factions or factionlike groups there we should know about? My understanding is that there were pretty much just small slavic tribes, and some trading towns along the baltic coast. Pretty much just rebels in MTW terms. When did actually Poland(or a group that one day ended up being Poland) emerge as faction to be reckoned with? What kind of units would one expect to find in these regions? Did they fight mounted etc.?
BTW, a bit off-topic: I noticed you mentioned some possible unique polish units for the MTW timeframe in another thread, like Czelads, Pancarni, Streltzy,Kn of Dobryzin etc.(spelling??). Could you maybe write a littlebit more about them? like what was the difference of Czelads and Strelzy? I thought they both were some kind of sergeants/retainers? What was the historical background of the Pancarni(when I searched I got sites about tanks, so I'm guessing pancarni means armour)
Any info would be very helpful, thanks
Fury of the Northmen mod
The norse sagas tell of the kingdom of finland, the kvens or quens in the north. Tales of a even wider finnish kingdom were passed down even into history books, but these were records were wiped out by the swedish adminstration in the 16th century; after this there is no mention of that ancient kingdom.
Anyway, my question is, how will the Finns be represented in the game? Or will they be represented at all?
I'm really looking forward to this mod, you are righ, i am drooling when i think of all the new units
Hyvää wilpuri,Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ April 07 2004,13:02)]The norse sagas tell of the kingdom of finland, the kvens or quens in the north. Tales of a even wider finnish kingdom were passed down even into history books, but these were records were wiped out by the swedish adminstration in the 16th century; after this there is no mention of that ancient kingdom.
Anyway, my question is, how will the Finns be represented in the game? Or will they be represented at all?
I'm really looking forward to this mod, you are righ, i am drooling when i think of all the new units
We haven´t researched that part yet so let me know if you´re interested in doing the research of the Finland/ kareelen area and maybee even Ladoga/ Novgorod etc? It´s better that a Finn does the proper research than get a Swede, like myself, to cast the Finns into obliviance again, right?
Eastside Character,
Thanks for the offer. I´m answering for Norse´s account on this topic since he´s away for a week. Any indepth research to portray the Polish faction, and others of her neighbours, would be sorley needed. So yes please feel free to drop me or Norse a line regarding this. We´re not working towards an emideate deadline so if you can take on this task later let us know.
Thanks in advance
The kvens lived in the most northern parts of Scandinavia (Lapland - or Ruija as the kvens called it), and are not especially associated with the Vikings. But it would be great if you could include all, or any, of the three tribal cultures of Tavastland, Karelia and Suomi (Finland proper), which probably came in to relatively close contact with the Vikings.
Now that´s really interesting. I´ve been searching for this kind of info. Have more? Links? Other references perhaps?
As we understand it today, Finland was not united in any way during the Viking age. There were loose tribal communities,who would make war campaigns which were more like raids. No one was forced to join these raids, everyman for himselfcould decide. A charismaticleader could gather quite a large force (in relative terms, the pop. of Finalnd was very low and spread out). The tavastians and western Finns raided the Karelians and vice versa. The Karelians were closely allied with novgorod, which also included several finnish tribes.
I can do research for you if I like, but for the sake of simplicity, I should probably only include widely accepted and printed scholarly views? Because the history of pre-Swedish Finland has come into question frequently in recent years, and there are many different theories emerging than those printed in school books.
here is one site, might be some what biased, I don't know. But then again,no one knows for sure what heppened since few records were written, and the surviving record were written by the Swedish administration, and they might have had reasons to change the course of things. Who knows.
anyways, here is a site that is interesting, if nothing more: http://victorian.fortunecity.com/chr...2/frnjtre.html
But I would gladly do what I can to help you guys with this mod
Concidered yourself hired wilpuri and thanks for the link.Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ April 08 2004,03:05)]I can do research for you if I like, but for the sake of simplicity, I should probably only include widely accepted and printed scholarly views? Because the history of pre-Swedish Finland has come into question frequently in recent years, and there are many different theories emerging than those printed in school books.
But I would gladly do what I can to help you guys with this mod
Research the regions down south from the Vasa-Kuopio latitude (63rd parallel). So your research in Finland will include the regions of Vasa, Åbo-Björneborg, Tavastehus, Nyland, Kymmene, St Michael, Mellersta Finland, Kuopio and the Karelic-regions. If you like please feel free to look into the Ladoga-Saraya region to.
In the timeframe of 700-1100 AD look for the following:
1. Chronologies, dates, dynasties of kingdoms.
2. Settlements, only major ones, that where of importance and what the settlement consisted of like a fortified village, port, burial ground, tradeplace etc.
3. Also include some of your local knowledge of the Finnish geography for use when we make battle- and cstlemaps and where the borders of the regions where, roughly.
Good luck and please feel free to e-mail me at anytime: pse@brevet.se or post you Q´s in this thread.
While we´re at it and you guys seems to bee so helpful, as usual, more research is needed in the following regions:
Baltic regions of Estland, Livland and Kurland. Russian regions of Novgorod, Pskov, Welikia, Polotsk, Smolensk and
Lithuanian and Polish regions.
1. Chronologies, dates, dynasties of kingdoms, names, hero´s etc.
2. Settlements, only major ones, that where of importance and what the settlement consisted of like a fortified village, port, burial ground, tradeplace etc.
3. Also include any knowledge of the landscape for use in making province- and castlemaps.
4. Special feats like units, shields etc.
Thanks in advance
Dynasties or kingdoms: Nothing officially accepted, and very few records. The link I gave in the previous post is from the Norse Sagas, and its reliability questionable.
I think we will have to settle with the fact, that The Häme region was more or less united (along with Satakunta and Finland Proper) and that the Savo-Karelia more or less united. Most of the trade during the Viking age through the east. The Finnish Kings are mentioned in several Chronicles, but they are dismissed as being false. If you want to give the Finns kings, with real names of Finnish kings, You could use names like Ahti, Kaleva, Niera, Tiera, Kuura, Huurre, Ilmarinen, Ikuturso, and pretty much anything you find from the Kalevala. The Kings should also have the title kuningas, which originally something like leader of people. The Finnish kuninkaat were also often shaman-like wisemen, who were also the spiritual leaders in the communities.
The political organisation varied. It is safe to say that Kings were infact elected, and did not come to power by birth (solves the heir problem). The major settlements in Western Finland would be Turku (Åbo) and Hämeenlinna (Tavastehus). Savo-Karelia had no big centre, around which the whole area revolved. The coastal settlement of Hirnilä in S.E Karelia would probably have been the largest and densest area of population and trade. Water ways and travel on them was the easiest and most usual form of transport.
Coastal Finland, Häme, Savo-Karelia were littered with several small hill forts, which were used for protection against raids. This shows that there was political unity to a considerable extent, since these forts required many builders, and they were also for the whole community to take refuge in.
Trade: Häme had considerable trade contacts with Sweden in the west, and the main goods would have been furs. In return they got salt, Swords and other metal tools from central europe, and may be some jewellery. Savo-Karelia had very strong trade contacts with Novgorod, and most of the silver coins and jewellery that has been found in Finland came from trade with east and ultimately, the byzantine empire. There were several Finnish tribes living in Novgorod and around lake ladoga. The Novgorodians would often aid their Karelian allies in times of war with the Western Finns. Furs were also traded from Savo-Karelia.
The inland Area was sparcely populated, and people lived from hunting all year round.
As for geography: Lakes, lakes and lakes, where-ever you go. Western Finland: Predominantly low land, farming and crops in coastal areas, Lots of forest, mainly Spruce, Pine and Birch in Southern parts, which becomes mostly coniferous forest once you get to around Vaasa latitude.
Savo-Karelia: Forest and lakes, with low to high hills. For forts and castles: Nothing big. the hill forts could be represented by fortified villages on top of, usually steep, hills. The Häme and Turku castles/forts could be slightly bigger and more advanced.
Ideas for units (in case you will make Finnish units):
Finnish nobles, or the Kings guard: Decent armour (probably medium infantry), equipped with swords and large wooden shields. Good morale, since they are possibly relatives of the king and are in his favour. They followed the kings on their war raids.
Finnish infantry: lighter than Finnish nobles, but also faster. Armour consisted probably only of thick furs and leather. Equipped with swords or axes. They are the middle-class of Finnish society (the largest class), and join the war raids in hope of booty. reasonable morale.
Finnish Tribesmen: comparable to Slavic infantry in MTW: Light, fast and equipped with spear and shield. Poor morale. They were the slightly poorer, probably from the more inland parts of Finland. Join in hope of booty. Impetuous.
Wilderland Hunters: From the dark forests of the inland, they excell in stealth and know the woods like the backs of their hands. poor morale, armed with bows (small units).
Karelian Kylfings: Mercenaries armed with epees/swords, inhabit the south eastern shores of Finland. Reliable medium infantry. Often associated with the Varangians.
Religion: During the later stages of the Viking age, Finland had already been converted to christendom to some extent. Savo-Karelia was influenced by the Eastern form of christianity through novgorod. Ancient beliefs still held the central position in society, though. Ancient finnish religion could be described as a more developed form of Shamanism, with the shaman or wise man usually being the king. Warriors also trained themselves in spells and the like, to give themselves courage, and encourage those along side them.
Here is a little bit for starters. Let me know if you need more.
my email is kristianola@hotmail.com
Great pieces of information there wilpuri I especially like the idea of the Karelian Kylfings and Wilderland Hunters.
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