Poland

[Cheetah]

early

[Cheetah]

high

[Cheetah]

late

[Cheetah]

Author: Heynow
Topic: Polish woes...



Heynow
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Posts: 2
From:
Registered: Aug 2002
posted 08-29-2002 11:50 PM

Ok this is my first post, I've been playing the hell out of this game and here are my thoughts.
My first harddcore game (the first few aborted attempts were just learning) I chose the Poles, expert setting. They looked to have the hardest start and I wanted a challenge. I grabbed the Baltic sea states asap so I could set up my navy. The AI doesn't seem very aggressive, and it is woeful about exploiting the seas. Why does it build so many ports and not build ships?

Anyway, I decided to lay low and build like crazy. You can play a LONG time doing nothing but grabbing neutrals and building your economy. Finally I thought I had a big enough lead tech-wise to start fighting the real armies. I went to war with the Danes.

Despite having a two generation lead in technology, I was SPANKED for one reason. POLISH LEADERS ARE HORRIBLE. Not once did I get a 4 star general in all those hours of gameplay. And my navy was worse. Out of over a dozen ships maybe 2 had a single star admiral, the rest were completely incompetent. It didn't really matter though, because about the time I had finally gotten my 4 star general (through battle), my empire disintegrated into civil war. Split into 2 pieces. I saved and quit and haven't decided if I'll play it through.

It may sound like I'm griping, but I'm not. It actually seems realistic that Poland has so many dunderheaded leaders, I mean they've never been a great power. The only problem I have is with the AI's treatment of the seas. It's way too easy to set up a huge chain of ships all over the world and never have to worry about anyone messing with it.

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Lord Aeon
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Posts: 216
From:Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: May 2001
posted 08-29-2002 11:56 PM

Uh huh. That's the price you pay when you're unwilling to get into the thick of things. Your generals will never improve fighting 200 non-faction peasants with a 600 man army. As a result, your generals weren't up to snuff when it was ime ot engage in some serious combat wih a rival faction.
Also, with respect to your navy, it looks as though, because you didn't spend time improving your military through hard-fought battles (whch is quite expensive), you had plenty of money to cultivate your navy. Sure, you dominated the seas, but only because you weren't really spending money on anything else.

But that's juts my opinion; i could be wrong.

------------------
You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple.

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dancho
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Posts: 43
From:
Registered: Jul 2002
posted 08-29-2002 11:57 PM

Yeah, I got pretty frustrated playing Poland. Kraellin seems to have the right idea (see his posts in the 'Preliminaries' thread). He went north to fight the Rus. Seemed to work for him.
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malkuth
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Posts: 17
From:
Registered: Aug 2002
posted 08-30-2002 12:35 AM

I think you picked the wrong faction to pick on first. The Danes have some great generals throught the game.
Sounds like you lost though. Tough luck. But you wanted a challenge and you got it. You should be happy that a faction AI actually gave you a good fight.

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Papewaio
MTW forum moderator

Posts: 1764
From:Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001
posted 08-30-2002 12:52 AM

Cool
You wanted a challenge and you got it I would say save the game. Play a few other campaigns and come back to this one in a month and see if you can win it from this setback.

Nothing like a challenge to bring out a grin.

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Boleslaw Wrymouth
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Posts: 33
From:NY, USA
Registered: Jul 2002
posted 08-30-2002 05:42 AM


It may sound like I'm griping, but I'm not. It actually seems realistic that Poland has so many dunderheaded leaders, I mean they've never been a great power.

Acually about a hundred years after the game ends they WERE a graet power. But that doesn't help you too much.

I had the same problem with Poland and have two comments and a question. First, go east young man and don't stop until its all red. This is what I did and and its easier then getting involved in the west early on. Its also nice to own some well developed provinces in the east when the Horde shows up. Also, once you have enough troops to quell disorder (you don't need a lot) bribe Pomerania and Prussia. Save your money for this if you have to, it can really help at the start.

Second, although its tempting to command the troops yourself when faced with an easy battle in order to minimize losses your better off letting the computer handle it. Your generals almost always get a star. (A bug?)

Finally, what is your tax rate like. Someone else on the board was having the same problem that you and I did and it was suggested that he lower the tax rate. I had most of my provinces on high and very high so I tried it and put most of them back to normal. Its about thirty years later and I'm getting much better generals. This may be a coincidence but try it if you can afford it.

It may be coded that Poland gets poor generals early then starts to get better ones later on. Its the mid 1200's and I have gotten many 4 and 5 star commanders and royalty recently. If thats the case, hang in there.

I know nothing about navies. I only use ships for trade and transport and by the time I put my first ship to sea, Denmark and England were history, and my very good friend the HRE took care of the military ships for me. They're gone now so I guess I'm about to find out about crappy admirals.

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[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ April 06 2004,18:49)]early

MTW/ VI, GA-goals:
The key IMHO to a good Polish campaigns relies on access to the sea and more territories. I usually follow this master plan:
Only military build-up in Poland on early.
Money upgrades in Silesia and all new territories.
Peace with all naighbouring factions.
First conquer the Baltic states an then advance east.

1087 AD: In Poland I que WT/ Bow/ H.breed and TP. In Silesia and for all new provs I tend to go with this order in building; WT/ Fort/ TP/ +20%/ (mines)/ (port)/ BF/ +40%/ (mine complex) and now first I either goal a warf or military buildings.
1091 AD: Que peasants (or similar) for gov´s in Silesia. Don´t be satisfied until you have replaced all gov´s below 5 acc.

Go for Pomerania early since their guarding force isn´t that strong so you can usually take it with your original army. Prussia will usually req some add troops, espeially archers.
From here I either go for Lithuania and Livonia and then head south or go directly south and take Volhynia, Moldavia, Kiev before I head north against Lithuania and Livonia. The last is usually better since it will cut off the Hungarians from the Russian steppes and force them to deal with the Byz. And later I will like to hold that bridge in Kiev when the Mongols arrive ;) My initial conquering is usually finished before 1105AD. So now you have something to forge a kingdom out of.

Around 1100-1104AD you should be able to construct my 2nd armystack which I tend to let my heir command from Poland to guard my western and south front against HRE and Hungarian alliance breakers. By around 1120AD your first ships in the Baltic should be hitting the water and a couple of years later your warf in Kiev will produce that vital Black Sea fleet that will reach the rich Med.coast fater than if you only build ships in the Baltics. Ofcourse you can even get ships in 1102 AD if you go directly for fort, keep, warf. Although with my delay I will actually have a sound economical infrastructure early instead which will finance the fleet which will finance a 5 stack army just two decades later.
Where you go from here is really up to you. Good luck

[HopelessCelt]

To add to Ramesses post i usually only go to the line of 3 provs to the right of poland, and leave it there. This amkes it easy to guard from the horde or anyone else who decides to attack from the east, you can one army there to save money. You do need The two p's north of poland for water. Now you should have a water prov in the north section of sea and the south. Then from their pick who you want to fight. I usually go south through hungry and take const. and leave that as a border. Then i take scand. and then progress west. have fun

[ah_dut]

top tip take Kiev and Moldavia. this allows for a defendable bridge and steppe cav in Kiev and Avar nobles in Moldavia I feel so enlightened

[katank]

I like to go for moldavia right away to get avar nobles and cut off Huns from expansion into the steppes and the rare byz attempt at land invasion of steppes.

as for the steppes, race the Byz to Khazar and grab Kiev on the way as well as trying to secure Crimea.

Livonia, Lithuania, and Chernigov are the onyl steppe provinces really worth it to me and the Novgorod can bash their heads on the rebels in worthless little provinces if they want.

as the polish, be sure to take advantage of special builds of armored spearmen, and mtd-xbows

the slav warrior units are also ideal for garrison and slav javs good king killers.

if you want to take on Byz, have a few mtd x-bows run them ragged and then hit them with multiple javs while pinning with armored spears.

the mighty katank princes all fall easily under a hail of bolts.

[katank]

new tactic: ransom Hungary.

Attack hungary with everything in Poland first turn.

Pull all units from Silesia to Poland and queue some slav warriors in Poland

the battle in Hungary will be tough dealing with all the HAs.

just use a huge encirclement maneuver and you'll be fine.

have the spear wall hold and run the RK and your own HAs well clear of the enemy HAs until you are at their back and order a charge towards your own lines and the HAs will skirmish away from you cav right into your spear wall.

close your forces around those HAs like a iron fist and you'll have collected your victory.

move every unit from Poland into Hungary and assault the fort on the second turn with king's forces.

after it falls, move in the slav warrior unit just built into hungary and attack Croatia with everything you got except for enough to maintain loyalty in Hungary

this shoudl net you a 11k ransom and make the rest smooth sailng.

your first heir should have matured in hungary so send him to finish off the Hungarian King in Croatia and later take Moldavia and Wallachia while your king goes for Venice on a delayed version of the Hungarian or German Venice grab.

then ceasefire and ally with the Italians using your princess.

note: Venice grab only works when their Doge is there and you have superior forces.

by this time, you have gotten aroudn the biggest problem for Poles: the cash and also gianed two iron provinces, a bunch of nice farmladn etc.

you can beat the Byz to the Balkans and both the Byz and Russians to the steppes.

I personally like to chime in when the Turks war on the Byz and grab Bulgaria which gives semi-unique brigand unit, Greece for trade, and Const. for wealth and development.

never underestimate javs and bolts for hitting Byz armor.

be comforted if defeated in battle by the Byz that your units are a lot more replaceable and cheaper and that you'll win in the long run.

let the Turks weaken them.

units to build: slav warriors are really cheap and work as nice garrison troops with decent charge. they are actually better than vanilla spears and I use them to pin sometimes. they are also fast so they can catch any infantry they are able to rout

UM for flanking armor on a budget.

slav javs: hits armor real well form the behidn with javs and then charge in for the kill. also fast and can catch routers.

medium cav: cheapo light cav for the early years where any cav is a huge advantage.

mtd x-bows: bread and butter skirmisher unit for you.

you are the only eastern faction without access to generic HA so this is your bet. good thing it has decent melee and can shoot armor piercing bolts.

plays havoc with katanks and can lure them into javelin traps easily.

good for annihilation of armor. just dont' try and duel archers using these as the slow fire rate will have them even more dead than vanilla archers. charge them or run away.

[Zortanius]

Hi everyone,

I Think the tips for playing the Poles were very insightful - of course my first campaign with the Polish was done bereft of this knowledge (sigh...). However certain trends do happen to occur - eventually King Kasimierz turns up, lives till 70, gets upto rank 6 or so and presides over a large and established realm. Thereafter within 10 or 15 years, civil war erupts. I have played the poles 3 times - each time expanding in different directions and each time eventually civil war erupted. Unlike other factional fratricides though - this one is most self defeating - the 2 rival factions are roughly equal - if one is bigger (more provinces and or more men) the other faction will have better troops. Basically watch out when your higher nobility starts seeming to spring from the same families - Jagellionczyk, Turek, among others and when the names get so large that the font gets smaller in the banner at the top of the profile pages.

Additionally, IMHO, the fate of the hungarians is inextricably tied to the your diplomacy towards them - if you ally with them and act nice to them (which I did out of fear at the start), they will expand nicely as well. If you take a chance and kill them off early - so be it. Other factions don't seem to grind down the hungarians as much.

The above 2 phenomena happen in normal, hard and expert. I have never played the poles in easy. The first time I played the Poles, I wanted a challenge and played as normal - I allied with the hungarians, attacked the germans and did little else (being absolutely new to the game back then). I got as far as swabia but then in a rash attack got my king stuck in a forest with some german UM and spearmen - needless to say he died, everyone else fled, I had no remaining heirs (another heir died in another battle), and my realm degenerated into petty factions et al.

Second time round was better - I played normal, got all of the steppes and eastern europe, most of central europe, most of asia minor and got as far as antioch before civil war erupted.

Third time (hard) all the way upto naples and cordoba altho not beyond kiev - civil war.

Finally played expert - balkans, denmark, western steppe and upto lorraine and tuscany before.. you guessed it civil war. This one was quite challenging.

And yes I agree when the civil war happens you feel very sapped and just don't wanna hang aroun trying to beat or get all your previous armies back. Plus it hurts having to slaughter all those CMAA, Knights and arbalesters you yourself trained. Sorry, I take my game very personally =).

Also despite having played the game with almost every faction - some of my most enjoyable battles were with the Poles - beating the Mongols with spearmen, archers and merc cavalry was classic. That battle lasted a very long time.

The Polish are hard to play but that much more exhilarating - even on Glorius achievements.

Anyway that was quite long,

Cheers

[Doug-Thompson]

I don't play Catholic factions much, but will have to try Katank's ransom blitz. I tried a different strategy but now the Hungarians are a dangerous threat, full of Szekelys. Very scary. Looks like eliminating the Hungarians early is the way to go.

I have found, though, that one one unit of horse archers the Poles get in early scares the dickens out of HRE units. They abandoned Bohemia and Austria without a fight when I invaded with a lot of woodmen and the HA. Then I took Barvaria from them temporarily -- just to start an HRE civil war. I then abandoned Barvaria, let it go rebel and grabbed Venice. Didn't get one excomm warning the whole time.

Went north, built up Pomerinia and crossed the Baltic. Again, the big bunch of woodsmen and the single HA scared off the Vikings in Sweden. I'm only a few moves into the game and the empire stretches from the Arctic to the Adriatic. The only "battle" fought so far was storming the keep in Venice.

The only thing keeping the Hungarians from wiping me out is the threat of the Byzantines. Hopefully, those two will get into a war. Hopefully I can tech up and get some armored spearmen going.

Right now, my plan is to seize Denmark, get my warning, storm the keep before I can get excommunicated and then either reduce the HRE or stab the Hungarians in the back.

[Doug-Thompson]

Also, woodsmen should do about as well as urban militia for an anti-armor flanking unit. They're cheaper and can come straight from the fort.

[katank]

woodsmen are awesome add some armor and they rock for the price.

simply use them in woods and they should be fine.

only protected archers can kill them cost effectively and also they are vulnerable to cav but in the woods, all that is solved.

dashing in bad weather from tree clump to tree clump until up close and then unleashing swarms of woodsmen is a good tactic.

after two or 3 waves of pure woodsmen, all the best enemy units should be heavily attrited and you can finish them off using your own elite units.

get some armor for the woodsmen and build em from Lithuania for good measure.

[MerlinusCDXX]

In my experience as playing the Poles, I've found that I have to keep careful watch on my heir stats (i.e. kill off any heirs that have low command/ bad vices so i don't get a drunken idiot as my next king). I usually keep my borders to Poland/ Silesia in the west, Moldavia/ Kiev inthe south, Lithuania / Livonia in the East, and Sweden/Pomerania/ Prussia up north. this gives me good trade income and upgradable troop production, decent borders, lets me satisfy my GA goals, and gives me a few ship/ agent provinces.

[HopelessCelt]

I have played Polish several different times from the first time I got the game up to now. I find them different to most of the other factions, being unable to launch Crusades, having large boarders and always having to face the Horde makes them a challenge in most cases. I generally grab several lands around me, and then see how the situation is around me to see where to go next. In the East, the best two lands are Kiev and Lithuania; these give you only two provinces in the east. One army can cover both of them, usually placed in Kiev due to it’s easiness to defend.

My aims in the early years (first ten) is to take control of Prussia, Pomerania and Volhynia. These, along with Poland and Silesia, become the back bone of your army production. I generally use Prussia and Pomerania as ship produces to take control of the North Sea Trade and troop movement for later. Now it’s time to check the rest of the world. Depending on who is weak (HRE or Hungary), you will advance West or South. I generally leave the Danes alone until I can attack Denmark via land just so I can retreat with ease.

If Hungary is weak, make a push towards Constantinople, thus going to war with the Byzantines. Hopefully, you will crush the Hungarians completely and take them out of the game, but the Byzantines will be left alive so peace is necessary (not for land reasons, but the Byzantines are buggers for building ships and interrupting trade.) This push south would have allowed you to start building ships in the Balkans and increase your trade more. Placing a nice defensive army in Constantinople, you know have two boarders guarded with two armies, keeping most of your armies in an offensive role.

The push west depends on who has taken power there, and it is usually a long slog before you reach your target provinces of either Toulouse/Aquitaine or Navarre/Aragon, depending if you wish to go to war with the extra two provinces. Now take Scandinavia and Britain, and you should now have removed any northern boarders. With choke holds in the east, south and west, your two main problems lie in the Horde appearing and the Italians/Papacy (depending again on how far you pushed). I generally like to push up to the Papacy as they are generally quiet and only require a small boarding army. Now spend your time readying to defeat the Horde (if it hasn’t already appeared.)

Once the Horde has been subdued, it’s down to you whether your attention turns to Spain, the Steppes or Asia. Once again, I like to take Spain and hold Morocco. Now your three Boarders are covered in by four provinces, economic or what? Now the Steppes, stopping at Khazar or Georgia. Prepare yourself for the assault on Asia and dig in. Push yourself along North Africa and into Egypt. Moving your two eastern armies down, you will generally catch the rest of Asia stuck between three armies and each other if one has not taken dominance.

Finally, it’s the island assault to finish of the Byzantines and Sicily. Finally, crush the Pope and the world belongs to the Poles.

Enjoy.

[KrooK]

As natural born Pole (:P) i think i should reply here.
First of all Poland on early had some great generals. King Boleslav Krzywousty won war with HRE.
During high era there were feudal division into Poland (same like in rest of europe) but there were some well generals too. But similar situation was on every country in the Europe.
But on late in Poland there were so many great generals that mentioning their would take really long time. For example king Wladislav Łokietek - the one who united country and held Teutonic Order or king Wladislav Jagiello - winner from Grunwald Battle. They should have not less than 4 to 6 stars :)
In campaign best option is capture rebel countries on east. If there are mongols, you should start war with them - at the beginning they got strong army but weak economy. If you crush their army, there will be no next.
When you conquer east Europe, you should upgrade economy - especially Novogrod, Kiev, Khazar and Latvia. And if you manage to do it - you can attack whatever you want :)

[Charlè]

The Polish leaders are just not good enough to keep the men on the field. The Russian leaders are able to keep the men in battle even when outnumbered. Perhaps my strategy need to improve.

This is what I do in battle:
Form a medium length line with Halbs and Arbls, 5 units of each, supported by Polish retainers to flank and chase the routed troops.
Put the Arbls on HOLD POSITION, to keep them in place so that they fire at least 3 shots at the advancing enemy
Move forward with Halbs to make contact with charging enemy.
(I never allow enemy to attack the flank of my line, I meet them square on), but the Polish Halbs lose their courrage very quick and run. Soon I have chaos of getting everybody over the border with many losses, because the halbs are slow, and Arbls dont fight to well in the gaps left by the 'not so brave comrades'

I have adapted a cowardly strategy to abandon the field as soon as I notice the 2nd or 3rd Halbs units are losing their courrage. They loose courrage when only 6 men out of 60 have perished, where Russian Halbs have fought to the last man!!!

Now I have to command my Retainer and Arbls to run, this way I save 1/2 my army (exept the Halbs) but not much pride . . .

[Vladimir]

I've found Froggy's guide very informative in regards to halberdiers. Their morale is so low that they require a lot of management. I don't use them in battle, but as castle defenders they're hard to beat.

[Odin]

The Polish leaders are just not good enough to keep the men on the field. The Russian leaders are able to keep the men in battle even when outnumbered. Perhaps my strategy need to improve.

This is what I do in battle:
Form a medium length line with Halbs and Arbls, 5 units of each, supported by Polish retainers to flank and chase the routed troops.
Put the Arbls on HOLD POSITION, to keep them in place so that they fire at least 3 shots at the advancing enemy
Move forward with Halbs to make contact with charging enemy.
(I never allow enemy to attack the flank of my line, I meet them square on), but the Polish Halbs lose their courrage very quick and run. Soon I have chaos of getting everybody over the border with many losses, because the halbs are slow, and Arbls dont fight to well in the gaps left by the 'not so brave comrades'

I have adapted a cowardly strategy to abandon the field as soon as I notice the 2nd or 3rd Halbs units are losing their courrage. They loose courrage when only 6 men out of 60 have perished, where Russian Halbs have fought to the last man!!!

Now I have to command my Retainer and Arbls to run, this way I save 1/2 my army (exept the Halbs) but not much pride . . .

Well you might want to change your melee troops from Halbs to something else, spearmen are a nice cheap substitute and can usually handle a pretty good load. LEadership might be the issue to, as I recall when I played Poland last I didnt have remarkable generals.

Also those Polish Retainers, if I recall, have excellent charge stats, might want to flank when your Halbs are engaged and charge in, might give your army the boost it needs.

[Loucipher]

Looks like The Polish are still a faction hard to master by some MTW players.
I have yet to play this factions with VI installed, but the very, very first campaign I played (and managed to finish actually) was with this faction. Well, being a Pole (salute to my compatriots m52nickerson and KrooK - Witajcie!), what other faction could I choose for the start?
My campaign got pretty much as described by many people here. I started by rushing towards the first Rebel provinces I could get - Pomerania (to prevent HRE taking it), then Prussia and then Moldavia (which was just another province close to my borders at the moment, since Avar Nobles, the main reason for its taking, were unavailable without the VI add-on). Then, I went east, eventually stumbling into The Novgorod. Taking out Rebel provinces one by one was really just a target practice for my generals, therefore I have managed to outlive the initial crappiness of my commanders, simply by schooling the chosen ones, and letting others die. From early on I have reasoned (knowing the medieval history of my country reasonably well) that cavalry has been always a hallmark of Polish armies (we owe some of our most brilliant victories to our mounted troops, and our last genuine, horse-equipped cavalry units fought as late as the September Campaign of World War II in 1939). So I have intuitively begun the buildup towards cavalry units, soon getting Polish Retainers in Poland - for early, these were my Riders of Doom (I once got a splendid skirmish between my 40 riders and a Rebel unit of 60 Archers, which ended with 12 Archers slain, the remainder captured, all that with... 0 losses - these wretches broke almost instantly) :) Rushing all the way east, I have enlisted Steppe Cavalry into my services, which let me literally ride the eastern armies down. My typical army rooster of that time included: 2-3 Steppe Cavalry, 3-4 Polish Retainers or Mounted Sergeants (later Feudal Knights where available), 2-3 Archers, 3-4 Spearmen (later Feudal Sergeants), 2-4 Woodsmen, Urban Militia or Militia Sergeants (later included 2 FMAA instead of Woodsmen). Such armies could prove dangerous to almost any threat, when used with just a little care.
With the advent of the High Period my armies were a little bit outdated, but I was able to field Chivalric Knights, Chivalric Sergeants and Crossbows (both on foot and mounted) almost instantly. My country was at that time involved with a huge exchange of blows with Byzantium, which lasted on two fronts (one around the weakened Hungary and the other in Georgia-Khazar choke point), so most of my armies were close to where the Mongols emerge.
Nonetheless, it was a bit of a surpise. My jaw made a heavy when I saw a Stack comprising of 16 MHA units, led (as is historically true) by Ogadai Khan himself.
But having 4 stacks of a decent composition (one army made entirely from High Era units, led by a freshly-emerged 5-star heir with 20 High RKs) meant that the Mongols were in for a massive amount of beating.
And what a beating they got!
In two defensive battles the Mongols lost 2/3 of their forces (especially MHA would sell themselves dearly ), and the remaining, including Ogadai, were captured and executed. The Mongol Horde never conquered a single province on my map, thus having no chance of reappearing. Having taken care of any wounds inflicted by this sudden onslaught, my armies proceeded to finish off Byzantium, flushing out the Hungarians in the process (yes, it is true than we and the Magyars are two nephews, as the old line goes, but we need to be united under one banner before it actually works :) ).
That left me with almost half of the Europe under my reign, the Holy Land within a camel spit, and the Germans valiantly shielding my back (as incredible as it may seem, the alliance settled in 1090 miraculously survived until 1252 - gute Deutschen :D ). Well, the time has come to pay them for their faithful services and dismiss them into oblivion.
Having shifted the majority of the armies (only some of the troops were performing mop-ups in the Asia Minor, before striking into the deserts) to the European Theatre of Operations, I have launched an all-out assault into the very heartland of HRE. Unsurprisingly, I have learned the most obvious lesson: don't mess with fellow Catholics while you are the strongest in the lot, or you'll get expelled. The Pope stepped in, which caused excommunication and some minor loyalty problems, but did not save Germans from extinction. The reappearance of the previously vanquished French didn't help them, either, as they too began chewing at their borders in a vain hope of regaining former glory (in essence, they screwed up, and lasted in a single province for some 10 years, until they drowned under the wave of red which was slowly devouring the Europe. The two factions, that were my allies at that time - the Danes and the English, escaped the destruction and were left for later.
In the meantime, I have shifted my attention to the south, where the Almohads laid lazy and drunk over the remnants of both Iberian kingdoms - they were lucky (or just aggressive enough) to crush both Spanish and Aragonese. Their armies were the most problematic, as I recall, and it also took massive pains to bring back the population into Catholic Church, as most of them have gone Islamic under Almohad rule :)
The clock has hit the Late Period before last defenders of the Black Crescent finally withered and died. Only weakened Egyptian Sultanate stood against my rolling forces by then. As a mop up, I have had crushed the Danes in the meantime, so both the Baltic and the Black sea were my internal ponds for breeding a large navy, which I had to muster to allow final subjugation of the Mediterranean isles as well as the biggest archipelago in Europe - The British Isles.
My armies were already waiting at the French shores for the opportunity to attack, but I had to take out British navy first, for if I had fought my way up from Flanders I would surely get excommed - something I could not allow to happen just then.
I had managed to sweep the seas clean of English fleet in one turn, which allowed me to launch a naval attack next year against every single province on the Isles - including Ireland. It was already my second turn of hostilities against a significantly weaker Catholic faction, so it was to no surprise that the pesky Pope sent me a reprimand. I was already enraged enough at him for his constant nagging about my politics (and the continuation of it, along the line of Clausewitz), but his plans were thwarted by a mishap that had befallen the English royal milk-sob - he chose to retreat from the province and was captured when the province he retreated to was overrun, then... well... his coffers proved to be empty :) The rebels are of no importance to that fat bloke in Rome, so I could finish them off quickly.
Just then, it happened. Some of my most trusted generals turned against me.
Fortunately, the choice was simple. The rebels were so overwhelming that I sided with them, and ended up fighting the former members of my own royalty :)
After this slight political incident I have invaded the Papal lands, to teach that perfidious and sanctimonious excuse of a priest not to mess with the power of the White Eagle. Not surprisingly, he was swept away - so fast that he didn't even manage to sign the excommunication! He reappeared some 30 years later, when I was busy disposing of the last points of resistance on the Mediterranean, but was instantly crushed again - this time for good.
In the meantime, the Byzantines reappeared, conquering (among other provinces) Rhodes, Crete, Malta and Naples. Instantly driven out of the mainland, they lived on for some 10 years on the islands, until in 1412 the last defenders of La Valletta capitulated before my armies.
All in all, it was the first and so far the most rewarding MTW campaign I have finished. No other faction brought such amount of fun to me.

[Charlè]

Cde Odin
I have followed your advice more or less as follows. I have replaced 50% of the halbs with spearmen, to cover the flanks. They take a lot of punishment, but I can not make any attacking move with them, therefore my attack comes from the center, with the halbadiers. I works out well, provided that the front line does not have to face too many enemy units at the same time. I now use the Retainers to divert the attention of the enemy by charging the enemy flanks, with no reservations. Previously I used the retainers as an 'impact in the center' when the forces came in contact, but it did result in much success, so the retainers were always in reserve. The new strategy is a 50% sacrifice of the Retainers, but for the glory of Poland no sacrifice is too costly!!!
The new strategies are satisfactory, because even if I still lose many of the battles against strong factions, it was not without a brave fight from all the units.
The trend of routing has thus been reduced, but I still need to improve my strategy more to hold my ground in every (evenly matched) battle.

Question:
Do you use different troops for attacking/defending. If so, please give me an idea of your defensive and attacking army structures.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Poland is hard to play as,from the starting postions in each era.. They don't got a Bad army selection or anything, so you could easily raise up a small,half decent army and take over and/or bribe the rebel provinces,Like Prussia,etc....

[Kavhan Isbul]

In Late the Polish are not as bad as they appear, as long as you play in the Glorious Achievements mode. They get plenty of points, the key is to crush the Horde (which happens quickly as everyone attacks them) and expand to the East. Then simply try to hold on for as long as possible, until 1453 arrives.

That goes for the vanilla game though, MedMod is much tougher. The Poles are easy in Early, but in late they face the two strongest factions - the Teutonic Order (superior troops) and the Horde (simply too many of them). As far as I remember the Poles were limited to crossbowmen, do they get anything better in Late? I need to check. If not, then it would be quite a challenge. Taking the Teutons out is first order of business, I agree. From what I remeber armies crossing from Saxony to Pomerania face a river battle, so kicking the Danes out of Pomerania early (while they still fight with the Swedes and the HRE) might improve the defensive position a little (then a fleet will become necessary, but even without it for the first few turns the Danes simply do not have enough men to attack everywhere along the coast). Maybe then you can take on the Hungarians while they still fight the HRE and steal Transylvania and Transdanubia. Usually the Wallachians will attack the Horde in Volhynia, and the Horde may also get in war with the Ottomans (this one is almost certain). Then it might be possible to hold out until the Mongols degenerate into civil wars.
It is a hard campaign, and I think I might try it just to see if my theories are plausible.

[Kavhan Isbul]

Tried the Plosih in late in MedMod and they are tough to play. Their cavalry is unstoppable, and their troops overall decent, but there are too many enemies. I invaded Prussia, but then the Swedish and the Order retook it before I could get into the castle. I finally captured it getting excommunicated in the process. This eventually got me in war with the English and a Crusade they sent. It captured Livonia and is sitting there now, unable to do anything more. I attacked the Horde and took Lithuania and Volhynia. However, they keep to come with more and mroe men, depsite they are in war with the Wallachians and the Ottomans. If anyone else attacks me, it will probably be the end of my knigdom, although now the situation is bearable.
The Polish are much easier in early, although their troops are poor compared to those of most of their neighbors.

[xgeoff]

I just started playing MTW, and have only played the Poles, so I don't have any insight into how they compare with the other factions.

I am on my second game right now, having bumped up the difficulty level to HARD from my first game, which was on EASY. For my EASY level game I played through the entire EARLY period.

I am surprised at the posts here which indicate that the Poles are a difficult faction to play, particularly in the EARLY period. I learned a lot in my first game, but despite my numerous mistakes, by the end of the EARLY period I had NEVER lost a battle, had 100,000 florins in the treasury (this seemed like a lot, is this considered a lot?) and my empire stretched from Friesland to Moscovy.

I also really hadn't been able to exploit some of the advantages that the territories have to offer. For instance, I couldn't figure out how to build Heavy Steppe Cavalry and Avar Nobles (though I am attempting it now in my next game).

My armies usually consisted of the following:
1-2 Armoured Spearmen
1-2 Woodsmen
1 Horsemen
2 Slav Warriors
4 Royal Knights

I haven't really mastered how to use archers effectively yet. I tried using javelins and mounted crossbowmen but they were pretty useless.

The Royal Knights are pretty much the core of my forces. I think they are relatively cheap and easy to build, and they have thrashed every opposing unit I have sent them against.

All in all pretty good, I think. Relations with the neighbors were great (many alliances, no wars), I would just snap up any provinces of theirs that rebelled. I bribed Sweden and Norway, which was pretty cool, and was just starting to understand sea power when I decided to start over on the HARD level.

Now, I just started my HARD game, so I don't have a lot to go on yet, but some early observations include:

1. My generals and princes aren't as good. On the EASY level I had exceptional princes (lots of 4, 5, 6 stars) and fairly able generals. On the HARD setting my generals suck and my princes are mediocre.

2. Battles are pretty much the same, I still have never lost one. I do notice that the opposing armies seem to abandon the provinces more readily, however. I am getting close to being able to create Heavy Steppe Cav and Avar Nobles. Am looking forward to trying them out.

So I haven't really had any difficulties yet, though I haven't had to deal with the Golden Horde or the Civil Wars that were mentioned in earlier posts.

Not sure why others have had such difficulties with this faction.

[Maloncanth]

Just wondering, has anyone tried starting in Late with the Poles? It looks pretty batty.

[Deus ret.]

Yes, I once played a hard GA game in Late with the Poles. I used MedMod, though, mainly to profit from the excellent cavalry they gain in Late, but it was quite a challenge. Actually it was too much of a challenge for me...

In the beginning, I decided to secure Prussia (in order to cripple the Teutonic Order) and to turn eastwards subsequently, figuring that the HRE would have enough trouble to leave me alone. In this part of tha calculation I was correct, and also in assuming that the main threat would come from the horde since poor and underdeveloped Lithuania would not be able to hold them off for long. Well, the horde killed off 1-province Novgorod and then turned on the Lithuanians which they crushed quite easily. Intending to avoid a fight in my heartlands I seized Lithuania , creating an 'offshore' battleground. Indeed there was ample opportunity to display some skills in fighting off the Mongols (they had only me as enemy), but the war against them took up most of my resources, and I often found myself seriously undermanned despite barely expanding at all. When the horde got into conflict with the Hungarians I hoped for better times...until that one disastrous turn where both made peace and attacked me simultaneously. My small kingdom probably would have been able to fight off both of them had not the Danes decided to join the feast. It was this strong and decently reinforced incursion which broke my neck, and within two turns I found myself being confined to Ruthenia, the most underdeveloped province. Having no choice but to fight against the (allied) invaders with my incompetent ruler at the head of the remaining army (itself still quite decent, just severely lacking missile units), my fate was sealed two more turns later. I was so shocked that I have abstained from another campaign with them since.....maybe turning west is a better option? but then again, the HRE isn't particularly weak right from the start, and expanding westwards wouldn't solve the Mongol problem. Anyway, before solving this question I switched to PMTW where a successful Polish campaign proved to be pulled of more easily.