Knights of the Old Republic 2

[frogbeastegg]

I played a bit more last night; I've just seen the bit where

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kreia went to play with Darth Barbeque. What a Bastila copycat; doesn't she know going to play alone with Sith lords before the end of the game results in pain and trauma?!

I haven't found any of it creepy, but I suppose the spaceship docking bit is more awe inspiring when you play it on something larger than a 14" TV. Coorta's last log was more confusing than chilling - the two main characters talking there had identical skins so I couldn't tell who was who.

I just saw a log involving

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Admiral Onassi. Carth's back, and he still has those bangs.

Another spoiler along the same lines as LordHugh's, something I nearly did which I know very strongly suspect I would have been cursing liberally.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kreia: don't buy any of the dual wield feats for her. I was going to until I decided to keep her with single wielding, and having seen a certain cutscene I'm very glad I did.

I'd agree with some of voigtkampf's technical points. I have the XBOX version because I couldn't be bothered messing around with installs and all the usual PC issues, and I have the original on the XBOX too because of that delightfully long lag between the PC release. I'm finding a lot of slowdown, and it is quite ugly in many places. The audio is partly messed up; sometimes it is very, very soft while others it is fine. It's like stereo sound is taken to mean 'full cinema surround sound for the ultra rich with big houses'. I've seen a few of my old characters from KOTOR running about several times too - they reused the old player character faces on minor NPCs. I find they very ... distracting. Overall the problems are not horrendous but they do detract quite a bit and it feels lazy, like the game needed another couple of months.

The story so far is not bad, and it has potential, but somehow I think I liked KOTOR's more at this point. However the beginning is the beginning, and there's plenty of time left for things to change. I just wish they had avoided the amnesiac Jedi and suicidal female Jedi things this time around.

The voicework is very good so far. Kreia reminds me of someone, Maggie Smith, I think. I've got nothing but praise here; I hadn't heard a single duff line.

I do like the way all skills now have some use to them; in KOTOR it was so easy just to focus on the handful of good skills and ignore the rest without problems. Now it seems like every skill has its use. There are so many feats and force powers to choose from! I can't see how I'm even going to get a fraction of them if this game has the same level limit as its predecessor. Is there a level cap again, and if so what level?

So far the game is very, very easy, but so was the original and with this kind of game I would much rather have too easy than too hard.

I think the most important fact from the frog is this: My latest savegame reports I have played for around 5 hours. I was playing until nearly midnight. Usually I only play games in 30 minute spurts and for no more than a couple of hours, and that's assuming I'm really grabbed by the game. The last game to make me play this much at once was KOTOR. I've been looking for a game which has this effect for over a year now, and until yesterday I had not found one.

[Boohugh]

Don't worry Miss Frog, there isn't a character level limit this time, although I suppose it is partly limited by the number of quests available.

You still won't be able to get most of the feats or force powers though, just because there are so many. There will also be the extra ones available when you become a jedi master, which I didn't get to see .

Another tech tip for people with Radeon cards: If you experience massive slowdown on the first area of Dantooine, just change some of your graphics settings (texture quality or anti-aliasing, etc) and it should go back to normal framerate. When you move area, you can change the graphics settings back again. I don't know what causes it, but it only affects the first area where the Ebon Hawk lands.

[[DnC]]

There are so many feats and force powers to choose from! I can't see how I'm even going to get a fraction of them if this game has the same level limit as its predecessor. Is there a level cap again, and if so what level?

I read it was level 50. I myself am level 21 or 22 at the moment. Leveling up is so much faster then in the original, but then again it has to be somewhat faster, otherwise reaching level 50 might be impossible.

[Boohugh]

I only reached level 26 when I completed it, and I finished most quests, so I doubt you can go much beyond level 30 just because the experience points don't exist in the game. I presume there is an experience point cheat for the PC version (there was in the first one). You could find out by using that and giving yourself a huge amount of experience.

[Steppe Merc]

voigtkampf, I disagree. While the framerate and other graphical problems are annoying, and I have it one Xbox so I don't know how bad it is, I think the game is really good. Not as good as the first, but it's the little things: a lot more options with characters, more point of skills, the option to upgrade everything...

discovery1, perhaps, but not everyone's up to that point yet. But it's more of finding out why he is where he is than who he is.

[frogbeastegg]

I'm now 6 1/2 hours in and I just started wandering Telos. Really some of this is giving me heavy deja vous from KOTOR

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A force bond. An amnesiac Jedi. A female Jedi doing lectures and being very standoffish at the start. A smart mouthed probably supposed to be cute man who can really fly like a pro. The male character and female Jedi argue endlessly. A mysterious Sith chasing the character for mostly unknown reasons, destroying scenery in the process. Being arrested for something you did not do. Getting hopelessly lost in the maze like interior of the Ebon Hawk. Leaving the first world to end up forced to go to another planet where your characters have no idea what to do next but will soon acquire a larger mission which will (presumably, I haven't actually got that far yet) lead them to several other planets in an order of your choice.

There's probably plenty more. The game is good but the similarities are really beginning to hmm ... bother, I suppose, me. Combined with the graphics, interface and other similarities and I really do feel like I am playing a slightly different twist on the old game rather than an entirely new one. I still like it, but it is not original.

I have noticed the subtitles are full of typos and errors, errors like noting there is static when there is none, or stating there is a pause when the two voice tracks are done in rapid succession. It makes the audio feel as if they did not quite finish tweaking it for effects and dramatic pauses. The typos are unavoidable, but I have seen something around 4 of them now, ranging from strange spaces to missing letters. So many in such a short space feels rushed.

:pouts: When do I get a lightsabre? I wanna lightsabre! I wanna lightsabre now!! [/little kid mode off]

I can’t decide if I like Atton and Kria or if I want to taser them. I’m leaning very slightly towards like, I think. I still like Bastila better

I found out more about what supposedly happened after the last game. I think I’ll keep this firmly lodged in alternate universe land; I preferred my own ending. Thou shalt not separate Revan and Bastila, the two wandering lightside jedi people with the whole neat force bond/love thing :feels utterly pathetic for wanting a mushy ending like that: I hate romance but those two really did work best together, mostly because of the force bond.

I'm still liking the game, but that feeling it needed another couple of months is growing ever stronger.

[SwordsMaster]

but that feeling it needed another couple of months is growing ever stronger.

Well, you can stop playing for a couple of monts and let it mature like wine....

Ok, sorry about the joke.

The likes:

- It looks good. It is not original, but as the first one looked good, this one does too with some slightly more polished details.

- You get force powers from the beginning.

- The soundwork is good.

- It is overall addictive and etertaining enough, even if it feels more like "chapter 2" rather than "book 2".

- Your decisions are much more significant than in KOTOR.

The dont likes:

- Storyline does not depend on the first one.
- Same "type" of argument.

I havent tried the subtitles yet (only had the game for about 2 hours of play).

I like it overall though. It does keep me entertained, although I dont know if it was worth the whole 55 quid I paid for it....

[ah_dut]

55 quis is more than a tad steep for any game isn't it?

[Steppe Merc]

Quid is a pound? Some stores usaully have better prices than others...

Froggy, here is an answer to some of your questions about the similarity:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Froggy, trust me, Kreia isn't really much like Bastilla. Thankfully, there is no love plot with her. But rather a love triangle (two party members fall for you) if your a guy, and a love .... square I guess? (three people fall for you) if your female.

As for some of the other simularities, the story isn't really much like the original once you get into it more. At least that's what I thought.

[Lehesu]

Trust me, KOTOR 2 has infinitely more replay value than the original. Infinite. I found KOTOR rather pedestrian, with character choices very easy to make, all the items in the exact same spot. In KOTOR 2, the character are...much more complex, both in RPG elements and storyline. And all the items are random for every game. This way, you find yoursefl with vastly different inventories, using equipment you never would have dreamed of using in the original. Lightsabers are more complex, having 6 parts instead of 3. Most all items are upgradeable. This game forces a lot of decisions, starting from the miniscule and building further up. Decisions that are often different for each game because of character difference and how lucky drops are.

[Steppe Merc]

Agreed. While the storyline may not be as good, you have a lot more power over your past and your present.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Did anybody else feel just a tiny bit ripped off by the ending?

[Steppe Merc]

I felt ripped off, yeah... But their's an obvious sequel set up... Though I wanted more closure. The first one I felt a diffinent closing. Not so much with this one.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I also think they took the whole 'shades of grey' thing a bit too far. They needed a more definite demarcation, like the first. Revan was a more interesting character to play as, also.

It's still a great game mind, just not as good as the first storyline wise. Although the dialogue was better.

[discovery1]

The ending left me empty, unlike seeing the Sith fleet advancing from the Star Forge.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I also thought that Darth T was a little easy, but I spammed with force crush and had dozens of life support packs

The game itself was rather good though. I didn't really explore the other characters in my first run thru though,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

the blind sith aside

[Steppe Merc]

Yeah, the whole grey thing was a bit too far... But I think that's interesting. And in the end, is anyone tottally good or bad? But Revan was a lot more interesting... Though I think Haindmaden could give Bastilla a run for her money... Too bad she's practically bald...

And I'm trying to go dark in a new game... Not doing so well, mainly because I still want my characters to like me.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Yeah, the whole grey thing was a bit too far... But I think that's interesting. And in the end, is anyone tottally good or bad? But Revan was a lot more interesting... Though I think Haindmaden could give Bastilla a run for her money... Too bad she's practically bald...

And I'm trying to go dark in a new game... Not doing so well, mainly because I still want my characters to like me.

Yeah, I have that problem. I just can't be evil.

[ChaosPunisher]

lol i have KOTOR 1 but i rented 2 and it wasnt that fun the first level was confusing and VERY VERY LONG
KOTOR 1 though i am almost done with that i am on that last planet and am stuck there but i will start playing it again later on and might beat it

Punisher

[Steppe Merc]

I'm going to try for what I call the Canderous aspect: not necassirily evil, but warlike, and not somewhat greedy.

[SwordsMaster]

Hmm.... Im now almost half way through Telos...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

IS that guy besieging the Ithorians really Canderous? He does look like him...

I also like the guy with the force-field-arm thing...

BTW, I Im fed up with Kreia. I dont like this, I dont like that

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Im your master and Im not answering questions....

Ah...

[frogbeastegg]

I just finished Dantooine, my first planet after Telos.

I'm finding now the only character I like much is Atton; all the rest are boring, annoying or just bland. The guy with the replacement arm is the worst; boring voice, not much to say, not very interesting in combat, no good skills except his obligatory force field remover, and overall just bland. The Handmaiden, urgh! Her terrible hairdo is the best aspect of her; the only thing stopping her from being my most disliked character is the fact she is quite decent in hand to hand unarmed combat. Kreia whinges incessantly because I'm lightsiding, and refuses to say anything about anything. Since she's a greysiding character that is understandable, but it gets very, very repetitive.

Who said the Handmaiden may be better than Bastila? And where is my 'ban peon' button? Bastila could slice the Handmaiden into two, levitate the pieces into a rubbish dump, and then hold a decent conversation afterwards. She also has a better haircut.

That brings me to my second point. So far these NPCs have much less development and personality than the originals. They don't have nice little conversations as you walk around, and even with my character they barely have anything to say. Atton I like, and that is because he has had about three times as much development than the others. I can tell he is going to be the female character love interest, but my Jedi is male. I have this horrible suspicion I am going to be hit on my Handmaiden.

Speaking of romances, I begin to doubt any of them will have the depth and … erm … strangely addictive factor the two in the original had. Pity; I found both romances really added a whole lot of depth to Carth and Bastila, and proved strangely … heartwarming, especially the Bastila one. I hate romance; KOTORII’s looks set to be every bit as tedious as the ones in BGII :mutters:

I really miss those funny little nothing scenes between characters that randomly popped up as you walked around, scenes like Bastila tripping Mission up with the force after a squabble. I'm about 15 hours in now, and by this point in KOTOR I had developed a real liking for Bastila, and was fond of all the other characters I had available except T3. In KOTOR every single character except T3 gained something new to say every time they gained a level, in addition to those random little scenes. Currently in KOTORII I only have a drop of caring for Atton; everyone else you can vaporise.

Atris ... is it too evil if I say she is delusional and in need of a lightsabre to the neck? I do hope not, or this poor froggy is going to start looking for red lightsabre crystals.

The story is just not having that grab, in many ways it has lost what grab it did start with. The new information it is drip feeding me I either guessed at or already knew from previous cutscenes. It hints at potentially interesting things but refuses to say anything, instead hinting at the same few things over and over until I get sick of hearing about it. Oh, cryptic comments about your trial? Can do. More than cryptic comments you have already heard many times? Sorry, fresh out of stock on that.

Related whining from a frog: Gah! Why is it I find myself going through the same conversations with characters over and over again? A lot of lines seem to be linked into multiple triggers, so in one conversation you can end up back on one subject from another and forced to repeat a part of your conversation.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Yes, the love interest was a bit disapointing-Bastila was far superior. She was the only video game character I've ever found genuinely sexy-although I think that was down to the accent more than anything.

[Steppe Merc]

Yeah Bastilla's hair was a lot better... I don't like girls who's hair is shorter than mine, as a rule.
But Handmaiden I think is pretty cool, and the other love intrest (probably didn't get to her yet). And Froggy, instead of having the walking around random conversations, it's when you do something, they react to it. Some fighting is done on the ship, especially between Handmaiden and the other love intrest.

But I can see how Bastilla is cooler... she's more fun to make fun of.

[frogbeastegg]

I have only had one reaction to what I was doing, and that was the handmaiden whinging when I chose the lie option and said I would help the mercenaries on Dantooine. I told her to shut her face There have been many occasions where I was expecting a reaction too. Maybe I need to take Kreia instead of Atton and Handmaiden?

Characters used to react this way in KOTOR too :mutters about feeling the sequel has really lost out on something here:

Teasing Bastila was one of the nice aspects of KOTOR; it passed the time, has great voice acting, was often humorous, and often helped move the plot and character development along. "Yes, well ... but I ... you are a very strange man, you know that?" Teasing Carth was fun too; he fought back a bit.

[Lehesu]

When your party is in the ship, they will do random things every time you enter the ship from planetside. This replaces the random dialog in the middle of a quest thing. There are actually quite a lot of little side chatter that goes on, especially when you have all the characters. More than original KOTOR.

I beg to differ that these characters are "less" developed than others. You simply haven't learned jack-squat about any of them yet. Please reserve judgement until you are further into the game. And, depending on how you play, you may never find out everything about everybody; influence is an important factor with each character especially when you want to make the big "switch" for them. And I will leave that appropriately vague and mysterious.

[ChaosPunisher]

i think u guys play this alot i think im gonna get it too.

Punisher

[71-hour Ahmed]

hmmm... my game keeps skipping the speech! has some advantages when its boring man talking, but I have to keep reloading the game from a save to hear the speech...(although its not doing it as much recently )

Bastila annoyed me a lot in certain ways... but that was because of her characters nature and storyline and not the fact she was badly designed. ie. I never forgave her for betrayal.. The actual characterisation was very well done, as previous said, she had a great voice actress and lines. Her hair style was a also little lacking in elan mind. Carth for me was similar when I played a female character... his attitude came to piss me off in certain aspects... but I still ended up somewhat attached to him as well.

In comparison...Kreia annoys me a little, Atton says nothing to me (all I can do is play him at PazaaK), handmaiden is NOT good at combat as far as I can tell, and Bau-dor seems to be a little pointless now. Also since when were kinraths wandering randomly across the grass in Dantooine?

What am I trying to say? hmmm.... KOTOR had a great storyline with the characters, thats what made it so good. Even the things that annoyed me about characters were deliberate traits of those characters and part of who they were. ie. Bastila was meant to be a high and mighty cow at times when expediency won out over hard work and being nice. KOTOR 2 to date lacks this... but is still somewhat interesting. There are some hooks in me from this game, but they are more focussed on the NPCs (like those fricking droids) than the characters in my party, who are more there for firepower.

finally, I'll add that I've had a few comments on my actions from others. Kreia in particular disliked my ways of dealing with some problems the Stalin way (no person, no problem ) and Handmaiden is similar.

BTW, my thoughts on Telos: isn't Handmaiden another word for....ahem....concubine? So that means Atris is surrounding herself with....ahem.

[Lehesu]

No, handmaiden is not a concubine. A handmaiden is a servant.

[Steppe Merc]

I think Handmaiden is very good. Atton, Mira, Handmaiden and Bao-Dur can all get very good:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They can be trained as Jedi

You just need to work with them. And you can talk to Atton after Nar Shadda.
And the kinrath have a reason for being there... obviously you didn't talk to everyone.

[frogbeastegg]

I haven’t learned anything about the characters and that is what I am complaining about. After 15 hours and around 14 gained levels, countless attempts to talk to my party, loads of wandering, a few cutscenes, and many occasions where I expected someone to pipe up with something I find I still know barely anything about these people. 15 hours! 15 hours and these characters have not developed at all, and I can’t even say I have been wasting time and not advancing the plot. The game is supposed to be 30-40 hours long, meaning I am not quite halfway, and I am still sat here waiting for the party members to become more than faces and names.

So they now do random chatter when you enter the Hawk? Good! I was beginning to wonder if the characters would ever develop; character development and plot are why I am playing the game. On my next gaming session I will enter and exit the ship repeatedly and see what happens. I will say this is a rather clumsy mechanism though; I go to a planet, do everything I can and then leave, so I very rarely go on the ship and will probably only do so the minimum number of times anyway. That means I inevitably miss out on a lot because I am focusing on the world and talking, rather than walking in and out of a ship when I think I have no reason to.

The presence of the kinrath on the grasslands was explained in game; they became more aggressive for reasons unknown and started swarming onto the grasslands. The cave entrance was blasted, but they dug a new exit and picked up much where they left off, becoming a significant threat to the settlers.