more control features that (suck)

[1dread1lahll]

STW, select a unit (or have a unit high-lighted) then select a group and the unit is deselected (unless you INTENDED to select it also by holding ctrl) RTW, have a unit high-lighted select a unit, and the high-lighted unit (or group) merges with the group you select. The old system, clean and simple, the new, easy to make errors in the heat of battle; you have to deselect any units you click on before selecting anothe unit; slow and cumbersom.

Shift key (ghost image) as noted a weak purple dot in place of ghost units, but also in STW select a group/unit, order a move hold shift, see image, select another group/unit, hold shift again (still see 1st group) and allign the two groups/units in prefect allignment. RTW, select move, see dots, select anything else, no more ghost dots from the first group/unit. You are left to guess as to the first groups final location. An over all inferior system.

You cant put single units in groups. (Generals, ect) you must select them manually. You cant group two groups into a master group. Like foot meele in group #2, archers in group #3, and the both in group #1. This will result in poor control in marching armies into attack positions.

Right click verses left click. I held back on this to "wait and see" Making a double left click error on one of my units (instead of enemy unit) was somthing i did once in 3-4 games, double right would solve this except dexerity in the middle finger is poor enough that I make 3-4 errors per game in failing to make a clean double click.

I have summarilly exeicuted key-boards for dropping me to desk-top unbidden, but now it seems ever time a general dies I will be forced to rage at a cut scene to get the hell out of the way. If this had been a feature in MTW, im sure that after the 15,000 or so multi-players ive done ide be annoyed with it. There was nothing wrong with the voice over, 'My Lord, the enemy Diamio has been killed! His armies are with-out guidence"

[Puzz3D]

Good points Lahll, but we've been advised to adapt or go play another game. I'm seriously thinking about the second option. I really don't want to pay $50 for degraded gameplay, that lousy server we are forced to play on and the premature yanking of product support so CA can move on to the next project.

Strange thing for me about those cut sceens of the general dying is that I never see the general get killed. I can't defocus my attention from what I was doing fast enough to see what's happening in the cut sceen. I am concentrating on too many things in the middle of battle to instantly turn them all off. It's very disconcerting. Now, if I played the battles in a superficial way, I'd pick up on those cut sceens. I expect arcade mode with no fatigue and no morale to be very popular online.

[Elrich of Gaul]

Being an old vet from the Shogun era.... I've allowed myself a few cracks at the demo so as to not be premature on my decision.... well...

Gah.!!!

From the first Shogun Total War up to our current Medieval, all controls have stayed the same. The odd exception..... add in's that the members here suggested and they we added.

Mouse over unit stats for both allies and foes are the same colour.... how to tell them apart without reading them.?

What's with the right click.??? with the years of inbreed motor skills already burrowed deep within me, I just cant get rid of the natural instinct to left click.!!!

No click and drag.?? what's up with that.?

The demo view option.. or camera views are limited. Dont know if it's solely for the Demo, but either it's too close (but graphics are excellent) or you're way too high and everything looks like ants.

Although the game looks great, If I cant shake this frustration with the camera and controls, I'll have to side with Yuuki on this one and simply forego purchasing this game and hoping that all of us vet's 3 to 4 years of faithful play wont be gone to waste.

Yuuki stated they answered "adjust or go play another game"......

isn't that a special way to treat the faithful followers since the first Shogun.???

Just lovely....

[Aelwyn]

No click and drag.?? what's up with that.?

The demo view option.. or camera views are limited. Dont know if it's solely for the Demo, but either it's too close (but graphics are excellent) or you're way too high and everything looks like ants.

Both can be adjusted, in the demo as well. You 'can' use the original left-click to move units and tell them to attack. I was happy when I first played like this. But, its not the same. When you tell a unit to attack with the old left-click method, for some reason the camera moves quickly to focus in on the area you told that unit to attack. Very VERY annoying I must say. If I wanted to move the camera, I would have moved it myself.

Click and drag also works. But remember, now you don't need to hit alt or ctrl, just right click and drag. But, try doing it with grouped units, and they keep their spacing. Again, if I wanted them to keep their spacing, I wouldn't have grouped them in the first place.

[spacecadet]

Good points Lahll, but we've been advised to adapt or go play another game. I'm seriously thinking about the second option. I really don't want to pay $50 for degraded gameplay, that lousy server we are forced to play on and the premature yanking of product support so CA can move on to the next project.

Yuuki,
Did CA really give that message to you about the controls? I cant believe it's so difficult to implement the user interface theyve used for their last 4 games (if you include the full prce "invasion" patches) with only additions to the controls, if only as a secondary option to the apparently more "user friendly" interface. Why leave in an option called TW controls and then implement them in a half assed way?

Still i can now see why the people on Time Commanders were so crap.........

[RJV]

Click and drag also works. But remember, now you don't need to hit alt or ctrl, just right click and drag. But, try doing it with grouped units, and they keep their spacing. Again, if I wanted them to keep their spacing, I wouldn't have grouped them in the first place.

Why wouldn't you want grouped units to keep their spacing. If they are different types in the same group (foot and missile say) then would probably be placed slightly apart from each other, and surely you'd want to keep them that way?

[Sjakihata]

But if I have, say, three poeni inf. and wanted to make a line, I would not want space between them.

[Husar]

Then just let them build a line and group them afterwards, they will keep the facing and the line, in MTW it was a bit annoying that they didn´t always keep the line. When the group was moving and you gave them another move order, they kept their relative positions, but not their heading, so insted of

-----

you could get

\\\\\

if you know what I mean, it doesn´t happen in RTW anymore, that´s a positive thing about groups.

[Ellesthyan]

Im left-handed, and I've always used a right-handed mouse, without any problems. Therefore, I doubt that the right-click mode will be more difficult. It may take some practice but in my experience the middle finger can become just as dexterous. I can make 6 time clicks with my middle finger ~:p

[Kongamato]

I'd like to voice an opinion. I've used the click-and-drag with my groups in almost every one of my online games. The incredible convenience of this was that I could arrange and sort my front infantry line and drag it into a proper line without gaps. This way, I could put a power infantry unit in the center and place anti-cavalry or spears on the wings. The problem with RTW is that if I want to have a line with multiple infantry types, I'm forced to use the "single line" command, which sorts the infantry out for me. Reorganizing my army into something I did not order is not conducive to victory.

This "single line" group formation is no cure for the lack of a click-and-drag for groups. The click-and-drag was much better for forming and reorganizing.