RTW multiplayer review

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Do you know how refreshing it is to see a game with immersive single player content again? A game that actually lasts more than 7 hours and incredably effort has been put into the AI?

Shogun had the most immersive single player of any game I've ever played. And it had good multiplayer. So it's not like it's one or the other.

[ElmarkOFear]

CBR: Ok, I'm sorry. I didn't REALLY sit on my keyboard! HEHE

[CBR]

CBR: Ok, I'm sorry. I didn't REALLY sit on my keyboard! HEHE

Ah thats better!


CBR

[ElmarkOFear]

Nice sig CBR. How you like my new one? :)

[Puzz3D]

Yes you're allowed expectations but in no way have you been "mislead" by CA.

You've got to be kidding. We most certainly were mislead. For instance: "* Rome: Total War also allows up to 8 players to fight epic battles over a LAN or the internet." It still says that at the official site. Also, who would have expected so many useful multiplayer features that were present in the previous game to be gone now? Besides, RTW multiplayer battles can diverge without you knowing it. What a waste of time to even try playing this game online. People who buy RTW should be warned
that they are purchasing a single player game and that's all, and even then you have to mod the stats to get battles where you have a hope of coordinating a large number of units. Gil said if there had been no effort put into multiplayer there would have been no multiplayer option. Creative Assembly should have seriously considered removing multiplayer altogether going by what got released.

[CBR]

I will quote from the developer chat on the gamespy server:

The maximum amount of armies available on the battlefield at any given time is 8 and the maximum amount of units per army is 20. The maximum amount of soldiers per unit is 300.

He forgot to say NOT in custom/mp battles. AFAIK the manual hasnt even been updated and still talk about 4v4 battles.


CBR

[Gregoshi]

AFAIK the manual hasnt even been updated and still talk about 4v4 battles.

Follow through on that line of thought CBR. Why would they say the game has a certain feature and then pull the plug on it at the last minute? Most likely there were some last minute problems with 4v4s. Would you rather have a 4v4 that isn't playable/doesn't work or not even have the choice? If 4v4s were unplayable but were left in the game, CA would have an earful (or screenful) of complaints about inadequate testing and so on.

You can use the same line of thinking about some of the other missing features in MP...like "one player, one faction". If they had the feature in VI to allow multiple players to have the same faction, why would they take it away in RTW? There must have been some issues they couldn't resolve with that feature when applied to RTW. It's the only thing that makes sense.

RTW is a different beast. Not all features in prior games may translate well into it (yet).

[CBR]

Oh yes there might have been some problem, I just wonder why they apparently only found out about that after manuals had been sent off to the printer.

The dark side of me would say thats because they never bothered to actually play a 4v4 untill after the game was done and they wanted a quick 4v4 and encountered a problem

I got a theory about why they "left out" some of the stuff we got in MTW patch and VI expansion: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...6&postcount=55

One problem IMO is that they never really will tell why some things turn into what we get. It allows lots of speculation and frustration. If CA devs where allowed to speak more openly I think it would be better for all.


CBR

[Gregoshi]

It would be nice if the devs could speak more about the game's development, however, no matter what they say, some would choose to argue pointlessly or second guess every decision. Thinking back on some of the previous high dialogue times with the developers, I have my doubts as to whether we could all remain civil enough with them to make it a worthwhile investment of their time. Sooner or later someone would blow a gasket and flame them to Kingdom Come.

Also, if they talked to us while the game was under development they run the risk of being held to task for everything they said - "said" being translated by the fans as "promised". I know because I ran into the same thing when I developed software for a living. We were always purposefully very vague about features and completion dates with those users outside the project for that very "said=promised" equation. What they say in those interviews and previews is probably very controlled and they only say things that are fairly certain about the final version of the game. If they said 4v4 was available for MP, then they must have been very certain of it. That they had to back off from it indicates to me that there was some kind of serious problem with 4v4s. Was it lack of testing? Don't know. I can easily see them "testing" 4v4 LAN games in the office, but what kind of testing environments are available to them on Gamespy? All we can do is speculate and a lot of the speculation so far is not of the healthy variety.

I'd love to chat some more but I have to run my daughter out to get her driving learner's permit now. Have mercy on me.

[Orda Khan]

CBR, it's not worth the hassle. MP has gone downhill and IMO it would be better if CA now decided to drop it. As I see things, they are SP to the core and I've watched the online game deteriorate since STW. A few posts ago I listed the many and varied features of STW MP, RTW has nothing new, has nothing special, nothing to get the MP'er excited about the game. I yawn at the influx of people arriving on the scene, telling everyone how tremendous a game it is. Shades of time repeating itself, remember all those MTW groupies? Oddly enough, where are they now? I don't think I'll bother, at least that way I can save myself money, time and stress. I certainly will not be a part of 6 player max MP and I can find many things to do rather than spend hours on end dropping from games. I'd be lying if I said I won't miss it, the interaction with many friends that I have made will be a loss but tossing a coin to see who plays the next game is not something I want. For the life of me I simply cannot think of a reason for MP to go backwards other than it simply being overlooked. That only goes to show that it's not important anyway, which in turn makes me conclude it will not change. I could make about twenty arrows with the thirty quid RTW will cost, why would I spend it on an unfinished game? Let's face facts......the kill speed has been modded, the unit speed has been modded, non playable factions have been modded.........How many on MP would use these mods? Apart from you and I and a handful of others? It's just not worth the effort anymore

......Orda

[d6veteran]

Let's face facts......the kill speed has been modded, the unit speed has been modded, non playable factions have been modded.........How many on MP would use these mods? Apart from you and I and a handful of others? It's just not worth the effort anymore

......Orda

I'm trying my best to be optimisitic about the MP game. And this is the main reason Orda. So I'm trying to be hopeful that CA will deliver in the short term. It is obvious that mp development was second fiddle and perhaps not considered a priority for the release. Maybe ... and I'm hoping here ... a polished mp game is being worked on right now and will release with the patch.

I know ... it might be a long shot. Just trying to be optimistic.

On the other hand ... maybe it isn't completely unrealistic that a mod is agreed upon and distributed through clan sites and fan sites like this. Maybe we'll see 50+ players running the mod everynight online.

[ElmarkOFear]

D6: Unfortunately, history has proven that most people who play MP do not download the mods or even custom maps for multiplayer. Unless, CA would be willing to release an official community-made mod, then it will not be played by many people.

[Agravain of Orkney]

"Unless, CA would be willing to release an official community-made mod, then it will not be played by many people."

Probably true, but I wonder how likely it will happen given that "the community" has torn to shreds in hours something the developers have poured their blood and sweat into for the last four years...... I remember watching a video (I think on GameSpot) that was released shortly after it was announced that RTW went gold. They interviewed a lot of the developers and it was great to see a bunch of people beaming with pride about their work. It was obvious that they poured their hearts and souls into this game.

Due to connectivity issues (first CD key and now I keep exiting the game to desktop) I have yet to play a multiplayer game. As a result I have spent my time playing SP campaign battles on very hard settings with large unit size and have been digging through the unit stats file. Based upon what I've learned so far I think the tactical depth of the battles in RTW blows MTW away. Just one example is the loss of the rally button from MTW which allowed you to simply CTRL + A and then pound the rally button to recall all of your troops. Now your general has a purpose other than to stand there waving the flag and be the "last reserve" to go into battle. Have him chase down some high value yellow-bellied troops that you need back in the battle, blow his rally horn, and urge them back into the fight. Like MTW there are some units which cause morale penalties (fear) in other units, but there are also some units which give morale boost to nearby friendlies. As far as I know, the only unit to do that in MTW was the general and other elite units in MTW only had the advantage of ignoring routers who were not elite, not causing a morale boost. Another example is that the combat equation for each unit varies based upon terrain they are fighting on (scrub, sand, forest, snow) and climate (heat) -- some units accrue advantages under certain conditions and are penalized under other conditions. Yes we had a system like this in MTW but it seems to be even more advanced in RTW.

From the comments it is obvious MP is buggy and was probably released premature but the problems don't seem to be too huge to fix. So stamping out those bugs and then some tweaking to slow the infantry running speed a bit and to slow the speed of killing (by increasing the pause between combat cycles), both easy fixes to do, IMO will allow the tactical depth built into the game to come shining through.

[d6veteran]

Great post Agravain!

Perhaps they will make they will make the battle configuration more robust and allow the host to select between arcade battles, campaign battle mode and special battle mode. For lack of a better set of terms. The special battle mode would have reduced killing rates and a tweak to speed. This way the host could determine the settings and that would eliminate a need for a mod.

Everyone would be happy.

[PaolinoPaperino]

Great post, yep. Unfortunately I've read even that he has not been able yet to play MP.
Greg and Yuuki's point of view are mine as well.
The game itself can be a great one, can be innovative (as in many SP features it is), it can be complex and not trivial (as several other players has stated, and I discover every day playing it), can be the result of years of hard work, etc..
but it's not what I expected, and then I do not feel satisfied.
If we are still here to discuss, it means that the interest and the good will are not missing.
The question is how these problems, already seen in previous games version, has not been solved.

[UglyandHasty]

I wish i could speack about my RTW experience online, but my game keep freezing when i try to log in .......

anyone have any clue what going on ??

[Swoosh So]

I had that problem it was my firewall, try disabling your firewall if you have one.....

[Orda Khan]

Yes a good post and I agree with much of it but I question it also. I would not call things that are programmed into the game 'bugs', to me a bug is an unexpected occurence. When things have obviously been changed there is no accident, it is intentional.
As for being proud and pouring heart and soul into their work.... I take great pride in my work and I always do the best I possibly can. It is for this very reason that I am disappointed because I don't believe they have done, at least not with regards MP. I compare RTW to STW and have to say STW trounces it.

Wheeling a unit was just as easy in MTW by using alt/ right click. Most importantly, if that unit was in a group and I moved that group forward, the 'wheeled' unit would stay that way and not revert back to what it was before it had the wheel command. Ok some people say it's a new game with new commands, I thought all the hype mentioned 'easy to play'. Well I know which set of commands are easiest for MP use where pause is not an option. I certainly don't find time to select my General, chase after routing units etc, by the time I did this the battle would be over.
What some people must realise is that by being disappointed and airing that disappointment does not mean that I, or others hate CA, hate Total War, hate Gamespy.......We are genuinely pissed off because we love this game. Just think what would happen in the next twelve months if there were no fixes required. Instead of that it's back to altering this, adjusting that and just when it's nearly fixed.......Shazam!! New game release. I just can't be bothered to go through all that again

.....Orda

[UglyandHasty]

Thanks Swoosh i'll try that, even if i am not very hot on playing without a firewall, seeing the number of times i got hit everytime i log on to VI....

RTW is a good game, with greater potential. As i couldnt play online so far, i have only played a campaign. Campaign is great, few bugs that can easily be corrected.

The only things that bother me so far are the speed of units, the killing speed, and some control that are lacking or that i didnt find, like moving your army in formation. Each time i try to move my whole army, all formations got tangled up with each others ....

Speed of units, just need to be a little slower, a bit like in Shogun. I wont mind a longer game if i can better control my battles. As it is, i dont have time for much things, if i want to look at a unit, i need to pause the game.... Same for killing speed. So to me the speed being bring down a bit would only allow me to enjoy the game even more.

But even with that "speed" issue, i wont spit on that game, its too good ! Especialy since it can be tweack.

Now please CA, lots of peoples buy your games since Shogun mostly for multiplayer, i am one. Totalwar is great because of the battles. Battles online are an experience that cant be match !! With just a little more support, the online community would be happy.

I understand frustation of my mates versus the lobby and online bugs, if only i could share that frustration, maybe i will if i can finally log in......

hehehehe

[Puzz3D]

I remember watching a video (I think on GameSpot) that was released shortly after it was announced that RTW went gold. They interviewed a lot of the developers and it was great to see a bunch of people beaming with pride about their work. It was obvious that they poured their hearts and souls into this game.

Yes, and after playing the single player campaign for a while I can see why they are so satisfied. I'm not very far into my first campaign, but the strategic gameplay seems very smooth and well thought out, and not at all overwhelming for such a complex game. I've found playing each turn very enjoyable, and tying the strategic map to the battle map is brilliant. During the prologue I used the release version of the stats, and control of my army in battles seemed to be mostly taken out of my hands. I found it so aggravating that I was about ready to try returning the game to the retailer, but I decided to start a campaign with 20% slower movement speed mod and the 0.5 fighting speed mod, and that trick to turn off the battle timer. Well, it transformed the battles into something a lot more believable and gave me a lot more control over my tactics (I never use pause). I'll keep the game because I find both phases of it are now enjoyable to play.

I'm not the only one modding the movement and fighting speeds. It seems like a lot of players prefer it slower. Now how did Creative Assembly conclude that a slower battle speed was undesireable? Creative Assembly did answer criticism of the RTW demo battle speed. They said they looked at it, and concluded it wasn't a problem. So, you can hope that they will adjust the battle speed to be a bit slower in a patch, but the fact is they don't consider it to be an issue. The normal speed setting is fast, and there are 2x and 3x options on top of that. Is anyone really considering playing at 2x or 3x speed?

Now look at what increasing the number of units in the army and increasing the battle speed has done to multiplayer. You have less opportunity to coordinate your army which is now even larger than before, and 4v4 battles were eliminated. These are not improvements to gameplay. Design decisions are being made which have a negative impact on multiplayer, and Creative Assembly says it isn't a problem. I'll remind CA that some people purchase their games for the multiplayer aspect, and not the single player campaign. I have a suggestion. Make normal speed 1/2 of what it currently is, make 2x into what is currently normal speed, and make 3x into what is currently 2x speed. That suggestion did not originate with me. It was made by others before the game was even released. Of course, the chances of it happening are almost zero because there is no problem.

[Pitt_Slayer]

hasty goto your firewall internet access control panel, selected ADD new internet application,

browse C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War,
then selected:romeTW.exe

make sure its (permit all) under romeTW.exe

romeTW.exe should be in your internet access list

problem sorted

untill you try to join a hosted game