Roman: Julii

[Krauser]

Geez, it's only 236 BC. Am I safe for a while, or has my high standing with the People doomed me before I'm ready? I've destroyed the Macedonians and the Gauls, and am on the verge of wiping out the Spanish, Greeks, Numidians, Carthaginians and Thracians (they each have 1-2 provinces), and I have about 30 provinces myself. Was the 30 provinces a trigger?

Around 30 provinces your standing with the Senate will slowly go down until civil war occurs. You probably got a message that you have enough support from the people to march on Rome but you're not required to until much later like Skott said.

[pezhetairoi]

But I find it much easier to do it once the message comes out than later. Like when the message appeared, I had already been getting ready for the war for about 10 turns, so I had diplomats at every Roman city, and three armies within striking distance. All it took me was another 3 turns for necessary concentration and accelerated bribing, and I finished the civil war in 4 turns, crushing the Julii and Scipii (I was Brute) in Turn 2, and SPQR between turns 3 and 4 when they attacked my besieging force.

[Skott]

I should also point out my play style a bit concerning Senate Missions. In the beginning I used to try and do everything they asked of me. What a pain that was. After a while I figured 'Heck with them! I'll do what I want!" Ever since then I do what I want and rarely ever do a mission they want me to do unless I happened to be planning to do it at the time they send the message.

There's going to be a civil war either way so I might as well do what I want at my own pace instead of trying to please them. So usually my standing with the Senate isnt good throughout the campaigns I play. Thats just my style though. Its not necessarily better or worse just different.

[pezhetairoi]

It's useful nevertheless, I'm sure you'll agree, to go for missions where you will be rewarded; 10k or 5k d are always useful no matter how much you're earning, and if you're earning enough that these amounts are nothing to you, then the Senate should have been dead by that time anyway...

[Krauser]

I just finished the campaign as the Julii. I was building up for about 30 turns. I had a full army at 3 Scipii settlements and 2 Brutii settlements. I also had 2 full armies standing next to Rome both containing 4 onagers to take out the epic walls. I built up my navy too. I had a ship ready to blockade every one of their ports in North Central Africa and all of Italy. I'm sure that hurt a bit. I had a few ships who went out and attacked there's while my weaker briemes blockaded. Going into this with 45 provinces in one turn I took 5 new provinces and Rome. The whole thing was overkill but it was great.

[Mahrabals apprentice]

But I find it much easier to do it once the message comes out than later. Like when the message appeared, I had already been getting ready for the war for about 10 turns, so I had diplomats at every Roman city, and three armies within striking distance. All it took me was another 3 turns for necessary concentration and accelerated bribing, and I finished the civil war in 4 turns, crushing the Julii and Scipii (I was Brute) in Turn 2, and SPQR between turns 3 and 4 when they attacked my besieging force.

Why go for a quick and easy war, i try to let it develop into a 3 way bloodbath, its a lot more fun than winning a war with diplomats and wads of cash

[Slon]

Why go for a quick and easy war, i try to let it develop into a 3 way bloodbath, its a lot more fun than winning a war with diplomats and wads of cash

Speaking of bribing, did anyone notice the changes in 1.2? It's almost impossible to bribe anyone in that version. I found a rebel family member that could only be bribed for 86,000! And for some reason, the Britons have no trouble bribing my cities.

[Craterus]

I got a Roman (Julii, in fact, and wow I'm in the right thread) General for 19360, but he had a small army with him too.

Too bad, he was crap.

[Kralizec]

What's really ridiculous is that rebel armies now seem to be no cheaper then "national" armies. Often multiple k's for crap armies

[Craterus]

Guess what? 15000 for a Greek General and Peltasts, this general had 0 command stars, 1 influence, and 0 management. That is crap. I want the bribing from 1.0 back!

[Skott]

Which version you running Craterus?

[pezhetairoi]

That's it, I'm reinstalling 1.2. I bribed a 3-family-member Armenian fullstack plus spy attached for only 17k, and we're talking about 2-3 command stars each. Something is VERY wrong with my 1.2.

[Craterus]

I'm using 1.2.

To be fair, this guy was a spartan and probably had a lot of bribe increasing traits, but surely it shouldn't have cost that much?

[Deus ret.]

craterus,
that doesn't seem to be too much. 15k denarii for a family member... that sounds pretty decent actually, given the fact that in the meantime I have to pay at least 26k for two peasants and an archer and the like. ok it's in late game but you can imagine that under these conditions it's pretty awful to bribe rebel family members.
bribing cost also seems to depend upon your general income....rebels are generally far overpriced, though.

[Craterus]

Maybe, I only want a cheap general for my conquest of Asia. After I've conquered Italy, I'm going to fortify my position from the Gaul and then set off on Alexander's route on conquering Asia.

My plan is that the 50th province I take will be the city Alexander built (and the city where he was buried), Alexandria. It would be a nice finish to the game.

If I really wanted to follow Alexander's route, I would make the barbarians to the north become my protectorate, and make Greece my protectorate, but I would rather eliminate them.

[Deus ret.]

well have a nice conquest then!

[Strappy Horse]

In my current campaign as the Julii some interesting things are happening. The Britons were pushing south with full stack of silver and gold chevron-troops, led by their 9-star faction leader.
After losing several battles in a row against them, I decided to get the Senate more involved and to create a buffer.
So I offered Lugdunum as a free gift to the Senate.

They went on a wild 'shopping' spree, bribing the northern half of Gaul, including 2 provinces.
My short term goal was reached, the Britons never invaded Jullii lands with that monstrous army.
About the long term consequences... they've got four stacks of Senate armies running around Gaul...wel I guess it makes the coming civil war a bit more interesting.

[gardibolt]

I thought I was about to be outlawed; my Senate popularity was down to 3 chits, but then they said I needed to blockade a particular rebel port or they would investigate my finances. I really didn't want that, so I complied. Surprise to me, my popularity shot back up to five chits. So I wiped out three factions and knocked another one to its last city, and still five chits. I really want to get the suicide message so I can thumb my nose at them, but nothing yet. Closing in on 40 provinces.

Fear me, damn you! Fear me, I say!

Well, we'll see how much of the map I can take before they get exercised. I know I could start the civil war but I want them to make me. Problem is the next convenient enemies are Britain and *gulp* Egypt. At least I'm pretty well poised to make a strike at the Cities of the Nile, thanks to the Scipii conveniently building full stacks for me to bribe away.

[pezhetairoi]

Hahaha that's just like me. Scipii full-employment policy. ^_^ Egypt actually isn't much to fear from the Roman POV because the Romans are well-armoured which pretty much negates their advantage in archery. You'll take far less damage than my Macedonians did while fighting armies with as many as 4 units of bowmen. It was nearly 20% casualties I took. Chariots will also pose little problem to you as long you form your cohorts deep. Bring along some gladiators and velites, they are the most effective, as the thread says earlier.

[gardibolt]

Beat the Imperial Campaign as the Julii for the first time Saturday using Pez's Scipii Full Employment policy. I did FINALLY get the suicide message when I took the 40th province and promptly told the Senate to piss off. Once the civil war started and I took Rome, I tried to abandon the city and let it rebel so I could keep on going, but they loved me too much and I couldn't get the public order down below 150% no matter what I did. I hadn't wiped out either the Brutii (they had one province left) or the Egyptians, who still held a dozen, and the Scipii still owned all Sicily so I opted to continue forward, especially since I had done it in 221 BC and still hadn't tasted the the Marian Reforms at all. I did the save on the Victory Screen and went forward from there. I'm down to 218 BC and just got the Reforms, so I'm itching to try a new army of these guys once the hastati & principes I have wear down a bit.

Taking & exterminating one or two cities per turn makes things go pretty smoothly for funding and the empire is all quite happy so far though I'm starting to get a little stretched for family members. That's especially the case in Egypt, where I'm taking a three-pronged attack to keep them from assembling any army too large in one place: from the north in Antioch, northwest to Alexandria and southwest into Thebes. Memphis and the pyramids will have to wait since I see they have the plague and I'm going to wait till it burns itself out. The population there has been dropping by 10-12% each turn, so there may be no one left to conquer.

I just decided to go after Britannia since they've been tying up troops to my north for far too long and I need the money, and they've proven to be pretty little challenge so far---wiped out a half stack with 15 casualties, mostly from friendly fire. I don't know what they did in Trier, though---when I took it the city had a grand total of 11 citizens. I think I missed a bunch of massacres. Pontus is probably next on my list; although I'm allied with them (which provoked Egypt to declare war on me in the first place), their armies keep wandering into my provinces of Asia Minor. I may need to teach them a lesson about keeping their hands to themselves. Besides, what good is owning only one side of the Bosporus?? I've been building flotillas of quinquiremes and pretty much rule the seas, although the Scipii still have some formidable navies that will need to be taken care of. There are also a few rebel navies that are apparently the remnants of the once-proud fleet of the Brutii. Only three more port cities are left on the Mediterranean mainland that aren't in my greedy hands, and that situation won't last long if I have anything to say about it. The Scipii also have the plague in 2 of their 3 cities, which is keeping me from wiping them out at the moment. "You're lucky to have the plague" does sound odd, doesn't it?

Two notable things the AI did late last night:

1. Outside Alexandria, two large armies met me and crossed the battlefield in an confusing X pattern. Some of them routed under a hail of fire arrows, and in the fracas I lost track of everyone, but some troops had apparently doubled back and hid in the nearby woods (woods in Egypt? huh?) and surprised my pursuing troops. Lost a bunch of men that way. Clever move.

2. I've been bribing the Scipii armies mercilessly since they build convenient full stacks. Having taken the entire boot of Italy I was surprised to find that they sent a ship over from Sicily and landed an army on it with a family member. Excellent, I thought, a family member to be bribed--I could use one of those. He sold out very pricily and only then did I realize he had the plague! The AI screwed me over, since he died next turn and infected the rest of the stack (at least I didn't move it into a city!) Whether the AI intended that, it was a pretty effective little germ warfare maneuver that also lightened my treasury significantly. That little trick did warn me to check the cities on Sicily for plague before invading, however, so I did get some benefit out of it.

One really irritating thing: After the battle outside Alexandria mentioned above, one family member, Numeris Cerealis (who had besieged Memphis until he saw they also had the plague--his name always makes me hungry) went after a tiny stack of 8 Egyptian archers (not units, one unit with 8 pathetic little men) that were off by themselves for some reason. Since I outnumbered them over 50:1 and it was getting late I figured what the heck, autocalc it. Bad, bad, bad idea. Poor Numeris was branded a coward and lost a command star. At least the AI didn't kill him outright. No more autocalc for me, no matter what (on land, obviously).

Unfortunately my audio crapped out during the last battle before the victory screen, so I had no sound (well, actually, a voice saying "Siege, Siege, Siege, Siege" over and over so I turned it off) at that point. Is there a voiceover, or special music or anything at that point? I did get the little animation,though it just kept repeating and didn't actually get the man to the throne to become Imperator....is that how it's supposed to look?

[pezhetairoi]

that's how it looks... there's a really grand fanfare though, in the actual thing. Just turn on music.dat from the sound folder and play it in windows media player to hear it... it's about 20-30 minutes in, I believe.

[gardibolt]

I'm now in the waning days of my first Julii campaign. Last night I eliminated the Armenians and the Egyptians (getting Pontus to pay me to do both, the suckers). That just leaves the Germans with two little territories with nominal armies that will be crushed momentarily, plus the Scythians, who have been fairly aggressive but as of yet haven't attacked me, and my longtime allies in Pontus and Parthia. Unless my allies backstab me (and my diplomats have been busily bribing any of their armies who come close to make that very, very diffiicult), I'll save them for later and take on the Scythians next. Anything I should know about them, other than their territories are far too large? Do they have any sizable cities? When I get down to the last few territories will I have a big problem with unrest like I understand is the case in MTW? I find lots of guides talk about the early game and few discuss the late game of conquering the entire map--I guess because at that point it's a breeze and no one wants to hear about it? I was shooting for finishing by 200 BC, but I don't think I'm going to quite make that since I'm in 204; it took me far too long to move my armies into Germany from my military-producing cities, and the Egyptians were more than a handful, and Scythia alone is too much territory to cover, not to mention Parthia. If the cities were closer together it'd be no sweat.

The Egyptians' final conquest was particularly gratifying, though. They made a well-intentioned sally out of Jerusalem, their last stand, outnumbering my forces by 50%, and very much outgunning mine too--I hadn't really meant to attack them with that army, which was mostly mercenary Arabs, but thought, what the heck, I'll start the siege until the nearby 3/4 stack can get here in a turn or two. Bad idea. Things were going fairly badly for me, with many of my units routing and my newly-bribed ex-Pontic general getting killed early on by an arrow. But his bodyguard fought on valiantly nonetheless, routing the foot archers in turn and chasing them inside the city, somehow dodging the boiling oil.

Things were exceedingly desperate outside the walls, with a chain reaction of routing from my mercenaries under the chariots' arrow fire. But after the bodyguard killed the routing archers they had pursued, I realized the city was completely undefended, and high-tailed it to the city square. Since the Egyptians had defeated most of my army, their chariots were merrily racing down the routers, and apparently paying no attention to the timing slowly ticking down from 3:00. Having won on a technicality, and having few troops left (ummmm 14) I exterminated the lot and that was that for the proud pharaohs. Amazingly, I got a green happy face....I guess Jerusalem really didn't mind the conquest and ensuing slaughter..... .

[Deus ret.]

Anything I should know about them, other than their territories are far too large? Do they have any sizable cities? When I get down to the last few territories will I have a big problem with unrest like I understand is the case in MTW? I find lots of guides talk about the early game and few discuss the late game of conquering the entire map--I guess because at that point it's a breeze and no one wants to hear about it?

You can find decently populated Scythian cities on (if they conquered it) and near the Crimea: Campus Scythii, Tanais and Cherxxx benefit from insane grain imports/resources.
Even Campus Sarmatae can make up for a nice pop thanks to the land trade (grain) with Tanais....oh, and beware of their Noble Archers, but after having finished off the Armenians you should be used to annoying missile cav.
Another nuisance are those HeadHuntingMaidens which have an AP attack.

As for the end game....I tried to conquer the whole map only once, as Armenia. It wasn't really a challenge on the military side of things, it just became a serious problem administratively. Put your capital in the middle of the map (as far as possible, don't let your homelands go rebel like I did) and exterminate especially all settlements at the periphery. Conquer speedily enough to not let the Egyptian Nile cities (which also are on the periphery) revolt; alternatively, destroy all military facilities there and slaughter at first some uber-peasants and then the population when recapturing the city.

In any case I didn't really think it to be a "breeze". In MTW I had MUCH lesser problems of this sort, mainly due to me tending to wipe all possible rivals for naval domination from the seas as soon as possible --- as long as provinces are somehow "connected" to your king, they are unlikely to revolt. This is no longer sufficient in RTW...

[Skott]

One of the things I like about RTR 5.4.1 is that city management is much easier and less of a hassle. No more of a city constantly unhappy to the point of always rebelling. RTW 1.0 has so many towns constantly rebelling its just a royal pain in the butt. Not to mention very unrealistic. RTR does give you more towns and provinces to control though. It makes the game much more interesting.

Also the three Roman factions are replaced by one single Roman faction. The Senate still exists though. The Roman faction in 5.4.1 is much more challenging and more enjoyable than in RTW 1.0. IMHO. Very challenging but not to the point of being too hard. The mod team struck a good balance with it I think. Give it a try after you finish RTW.

[Rome:Total Slayer]

I have noticed that when playing as the Julii it is best to take as many sea provinces as possible it will greatly improve your Denarii count. Almost imidiatly after taking Caralis move and take palma let this grow as fast as can. then move and take Narbo Martius and Massilia. This way your trade will rise and so will your income. If you feel so inclined you may take Carthage. My advice is to enslave the populance. Because you will have a rebellian on your hands faster than you can breathe.Then if all goes well you move to the west and take anyother sea provinces. once you've compleated that build up your armies and invade in any order you want.

[Rome:Total Slayer]

wait until your able to train arches to engage the Germans. the Phalaxed Spear warbands are tough to beat unless you are able to loosen them up and make them rout. I've found that using your archers to make them pull back away from the walls is an exelent wat to get lots of troops in before the melee gets nasty. charge a phalax and see what happens. Personly Princepes are best used in the Noth. They have better armor and attack than most barbarian units.

[Claudius the God]

if you're fast enough as the Julii, you can capture Carthage before the Scipii do...

heck, on this campaign (medium/medium) i've conquered at least 50 provinces including Rome and the other roman factions, before the marian reforms even occurred, and before i've been able to build onagers of any kind

i started by expanding as much and as quickly as possible, into Gaulish territory, the balkans, carthaginian territory. going to war with the Spanish, and the Greeks, then the Macedonians.

i wiped out the gauls, the greeks, the macedonians, the spanish, the carthaginians and then the Dacians before starting the roman civil war, taking rome and the scipii and brutii territories (about 5-6 provinces each) to gain over 50 provinces... including rome.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I'm a very slow moving person. I concentrate all my forces on one nation (until rescently I've been forced into more) and break them. I also very rarely take more than one enemy city in a span of two hours. During the campaign map, I look at every single city...

Slow, but fullfilling for me...

[spartakis]

hey im new here but im far from new in rtw. my julii short campaign m/m went rather strangely. first couple turns gaul decided to attack me. i quickly sent all my troops to attack and easily got rid of the threat for the time being. using the other roman factions as a way to protect my city's that i started with i quickly moved on to gaul territory. i started from the east and moved west as it seemed easyer at the time as i had an aliance with spain. gaul were fairly easy as their tactics arefairly simple to figure out. using a bunch of cavalry and a wall of archers in the back, i quickly and easily took anything in my way. the germans were too busy with britania to care about attacking me like they did in previous campaigns and as i moved toward the middle, i saw spain had broken our treaty. i went around spains troops and just took small army's as to not disrupt my plan. i sent spy's and assassins to spain's larger army's and then right after i killed their entire family i quickly attacked and spain was no more a threat. using wat assassins i had left i kileld off the gaul leaders and easily kileld them off. all in all i found the senate missions a bit of an annoyance and if i wasnt hard pressed in money in the begining i wouldnt have built portsor a fleet. i dont like playing as roman factions as they can be quite easy with the multiple ally's in the beginning.

[GreatEmperor]

the Phalaxed Spear warbands are tough to beat

No they aren't, just charge them with 2 cavalry units but just before they hit the warbands quickly break them (one going left, one going right) the warbands start to turn, but because they're slow you've got the change to flank 'em on both sides.