Roman: Brutii

[mrdun]

Yes but with the Julii, you don't need big armies to take out stacks of Gauls. Therefore you save money on upkeep, your generals get better traits and the Gallic lands are not as bad as everyone makes out.

[Quintus.JC]

It's easy to take out Phalanx troops with the age-old flanking move. The greeks do have good early infantry but with the Brutii Thermon and Sparta could be taken in the first 8 turns. The Macedon the same thing. Light lancers and greek cavalry is no match for Equites, plus levy pikemen and militia hoplite will rout at the slighest of danger. not to mention the weak greek genearl bodyguards. after taking the Balkans the Brutii do not need such a big army. 1 full-stack army stationed at Thessalonica to watch out for the northen frontier while the other 2 go else where. build temple of mercury in all key industrial cities, Mars for military production cities and Juno for growing cities. apart from Egypt I think the Brutii probably is the easiest faction to play in RTW.

[Master Young Phoenix]

I'm currently playing a Brutii campaign and indeed, after you've taken the better part of modern day Greece, you're a rich mofo... however at the moment (about 215 BC), my money is dissapearing!
Maybe I built too many farms too...
The people have asked my thrice to march on Rome, but as I'm still at war with the Gypos, I'm doing it slowly. Have about 9 spies in rome at the moment (and even 45% public order it does not rebel!) and about 3,5 stacks in the vicinity. I'm almost ready.
The reforms came at about 230 BC allready, and thanks to the big money of this faction, I didn't have to do much Barrack upgrades to get proper legions.

Early on the Senate gave me mostly usefull missions that were actually quite the things I planned myself... though twice the stupid Scipii prevented me blocking the corinth port with one of their fleets, they actually landed an army at corinth while I was still allied to Macedon and besieged it!
Luckily their siege failed. The Julii also send an army to Greece, which just hang around there. The Battle for Thermon was quite hard though. While I prefer taking towns in field battles, this time the Greeks launched no less than 3 armies at my besieging legion. I tried three times but in the end, the terrain around thermon is terrible for attackers, you'll be in a valley and the enemy will have the High Ground... so I withdrew and defeated the Greeks stack for stack before taking thermon.

After destroying Macedon and Greece, with all the balkans in control I conquered mediolanium and Patavium while a 3d army began the campaign for anatolia. The Gauls were at war with me anyway (due to obliging the senate too often) and the Julii were just loitering! They only got 2 provinces in spain and Palma at the moment.
The Scipii united Sicily under their banner and conquered the carthaginians and numidians. As always, the western africa provinces keep rebelling against their rule.

I tried to stay on friendly terms with Pontus, but they betrayed me right after I took the last seleucid province. I wiped them off the map in a war of vengeance. While I was still at war with them, the senate order me to take jerusalem from the Gypo's. I didn't do it. I needed my Anatolian armies against Pontus and was not quite ready to face the might of the Pharaoh.

while sieging the last two Pontic towns. The Senate asked me to conquer Tarsus. Okay, old b-tards, I did it and the war with Egypt began in earnest... and the second settlement I took was Sidon, again for senate mission. It was good that I did this 'cause they gave me the awsome Decere ship! Who can actually build those? Carthage?

I also went for Memphis with 1,5 stacks of pre-marian troops and soon I'll be conquering the rest of the Pharaoh's lands in Arabia, leaving Dimmidi their only province and a buffer against the Scipii in Africa. I doubt the catamite will leave me alone if I go into the Civil war before that.

at the moment, the People want me to become their dictator while the senate wants me to blockade a port in the Red Sea... I trained a Bireme, only to run into a Pirate fleet of 2 large boats... defeat mission's gonna fail.

For armies I tried to stick to the De Re Militarii, going for a core of:
pre-marian
5 Hastati
3 Principes/3 bronze 1+ silver chevron hastati
2 Triarii/mercenary hoplites
2-3 velites
2 equites
2 auxilia cavalry
extra troops for flexibility or certain bonusses or flanking manouvres.

Marian:
5 Early cohorts
3 cohorts
2 praetroian cohorts
2 auxilia
2-4 cavalry

rest of the slots gets filled with usefull units against the enemy faction

I kept to the three-line tactics and it works very well actually, especially with the first line on fire at will. Combined with an abundance of light auxilia, no chariot can come near my lines and basic infantry and cavalry quickly panic... many a phalanx has been disrupted by hastati pila...

[Quintus.JC]

The people have asked my thrice to march on Rome, but as I'm still at war with the Gypos, I'm doing it slowly. Have about 9 spies in rome at the moment (and even 45% public order it does not rebel!) and about 3,5 stacks in the vicinity. I'm almost ready.

Marian:
5 Early cohorts
3 cohorts
2 praetroian cohorts
2 auxilia
2-4 cavalry

I don't think Rome could rebel no matter how low the public order is.

I have no love for early cohorts. Legionary cohorts are better, takes only 1 turn to train and have the same upkeep. So I only train Legions with no early cohorts. What about some missile troops, they can be handy at times.

[Praetor Rick]

I don't agree with Brutii lands being better than Julii lands, all Roman factions are the same, the julii get Spain, Brutii Greece and Scipii Sicily/ north africa/ egypt.

Yes, Greece is very rich but you need to fight hoplites and such which can be very nasty, you do not need as much of a military with the Julii plus you get access to mediteranean trade, spanish mines and lots of farmland which with Roman Latifundia can be extremely profitable.

I don't think farming is a good way to make money, especially not in remote and unrest-filled regions like Spain. Anything that makes those settlements, which already grow too fast, grow even faster is dangerous.

Simply put, it's hard to beat getting sent to Greece as an initial conquest zone. It's stinking rich, filled with wonders (4 of the 7 wonders are in generally "Brutii" territory), and best of all, close to home. The provinces are tiny, so you get tons of trade with not a lot of marching around. Yeah, Greece and Macedonia are tougher than Gaul, but since they're played by the AI, not that much tougher.

Gaul and Spain aren't worthless, they're just fixer-uppers. That's fine, until you hit 30+ provinces, the Senate hates you, and the Brutii decide to send a dozen full stack armies led by 5+ star generals with lots of experience on a scenic tour of Julii territory. Why do they do that, anyway? I'd kick off the civil war in my Julii game now and trust to luck, skill, and superior strategic depth to save my bacon, but not with the entire Brutii military camped outside my gates. Are they marching off to invade Dacia or Britannia or some such, or is the AI smart enough to know that there's a civil war coming?

[Quintus.JC]

Welcome to the forum Praetor Rick. Excellent first post.
This happened to me too when I was Julii, The Scipii who has 33 province camped 4 full stack along with lots of mini armies outside my northern Italy territories, blocking my army movement and ruining farming. I tried to tell them to shove it.Without any result. This was one of the time when I tried to expand historically and not aggressively, I had 26 province with Gaul, Spain, Britain and northern Italy under control. Scipii was the obvious stronger power having all the of the Egyptian territory and more. The Brutii expanded from Greece going up into Scythia and Germany. I was waiting for the Scipii to start the civil war but they were too smart for it. I try to offer them land and money. Their popularity with the Senate is almost rock bottom. At the end they did start the civil war. But taken them a long time though. I came to the aid of the Senate and so did the Brutii. But the Brutii was already too powerful and at the end it became a four way fight, with me succeeding of course.

[Praetor Rick]

Welcome to the forum Praetor Rick. Excellent first post.
This happened to me too when I was Julii, The Scipii who has 33 province camped 4 full stack along with lots of mini armies outside my northern Italy territories, blocking my army movement and ruining farming. I tried to tell them to shove it.Without any result. This was one of the time when I tried to expand historically and not aggressively, I had 26 province with Gaul, Spain, Britain and northern Italy under control. Scipii was the obvious stronger power having all the of the Egyptian territory and more. The Brutii expanded from Greece going up into Scythia and Germany. I was waiting for the Scipii to start the civil war but they were too smart for it. I try to offer them land and money. Their popularity with the Senate is almost rock bottom. At the end they did start the civil war. But taken them a long time though. I came to the aid of the Senate and so did the Brutii. But the Brutii was already too powerful and at the end it became a four way fight, with me succeeding of course.

Well, the Scipii are a non-issue in this game, since all they have is their 2 starting provinces, Thapsus, and Lepcis Magna. The Greek Cities kicked them off of Sicily (and me out of Lilybaeum, courtesy of a Senate mission) and I responded by taking over everything on the island except for Messana, which the Scipii did manage to recapture. I was able to grab Carthage and all of Africa west of Carthage, which appears to have broken the AI, at least as far as the Scipii are concerned. They just have their armies massed on the border with the last 2 Numidian provinces, but don't do anything with them. I guess they don't want to eliminate the buffer between them and Egypt - I wouldn't either.

But I wasn't nearly as effective at messing with the Brutii, they have all of Greece and Macedonia, all I managed to do was grab all of the south bank of the Danube over to the Black Sea, and a few formerly Pontic territories in NW Turkey. Almost tempted to give them to the Brutii, in the hopes that they'll get sucked into a war with Egypt.

[The Black Sheep]

Havind the other Romans sucked in a war with Egypt is a good idea, but it can turn in an disadvantage. Because if the Brutii fight with Egypt in the north, the Scipii may aid them in the south. If they succeed in taking Egypt, which is mostly quite big, you will face two mighty Roman opponents as soon as the civil wars break out. And besides, if they control Egypt they will have an big and secured safe territory where they can train troops and make it an economical zone.

So it can be an useful trick, but it can also easily turn out in disaster, especially on VH/VH.

[Quintus.JC]

The Julii are destined for poor provinces, compared to your Italian allies at least. One way to overcome this is to get ahead of both other houses. Ignore Senate missions. Send your faction leader and another member with all starting Hastati to Carthage. Carthage starts with really weak units. Take Caralis on the way. After taking Carthage jump to Sparta, and expand into the Peloponnese from there. While you can also expand from Arretium into Northern Italy. This is as aggressive as it gets, expanding into three directions. From Carthage you can have all of Western Africa, from Sparta you can have all of the Balkans ahead of the Brutii, and also Gaul as well.

[Praetor Rick]

The Julii are destined for poor provinces, compared to your Italian allies at least. One way to overcome this is to get ahead of both other houses. Ignore Senate missions. Send your faction leader and another member with all starting Hastati to Carthage. Carthage starts with really weak units. Take Caralis on the way. After taking Carthage jump to Sparta, and expand into the Peloponnese from there. While you can also expand from Arretium into Northern Italy. This is as aggressive as it gets, expanding into three directions. From Carthage you can have all of Western Africa, from Sparta you can have all of the Balkans ahead of the Brutii, and also Gaul as well.

I find Carthage to be a bit of a handful, although it's certainly a profit center. Still, given the choice, I think I'd take 2/3 of Sicily over Carthage - which is what I can usually get, given the turbulent 3 way war that usually breaks out in Sicily in the early game. Pick a moment when the Scipii look to be on the ropes, and rush in where angels fear to tread and grab two cities. So far, 3 Julii games where I've tried it, and it worked twice, M/M and H/H difficulties. The third time I didn't evey get Lilybaeum, which I usually get - but not a lot you can do when the computer decides that the Scipii shall not be beaten, bruised, or even mildly inconvenienced. They actually were abusing Egypt early and severely enough that the Seleucids managed to make a comeback, which is frightening - usually the Scipii are the weakest of the Roman factions in my games.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I find Carthage to be a bit of a handful, although it's certainly a profit center. Still, given the choice, I think I'd take 2/3 of Sicily over Carthage - which is what I can usually get, given the turbulent 3 way war that usually breaks out in Sicily in the early game. Pick a moment when the Scipii look to be on the ropes, and rush in where angels fear to tread and grab two cities. So far, 3 Julii games where I've tried it, and it worked twice, M/M and H/H difficulties. The third time I didn't evey get Lilybaeum, which I usually get - but not a lot you can do when the computer decides that the Scipii shall not be beaten, bruised, or even mildly inconvenienced. They actually were abusing Egypt early and severely enough that the Seleucids managed to make a comeback, which is frightening - usually the Scipii are the weakest of the Roman factions in my games.

I loved those games where the selkies actually survived into the mid-game as a factor. Wonderful units to fight against.

[Praetor Rick]

I loved those games where the selkies actually survived into the mid-game as a factor. Wonderful units to fight against.

In my Germania game I rushed a diplomat over there and gave the Seleucids Rome to stop Egypt from winning the short campaign. It's looking like I may complete the long campaign before I win the short, what with me getting attacked by everybody *EXCEPT* Dacia and Scythia. Is that even possible in a short campaign?

Hmm, I made a post in the Brutii thread that mentions four factions, none of which are Brutii. My job here is done - I mean, what is there to say about the Brutii? They have the best temples of the Roman factions and get sent to the best territories of the Roman factions. Also, they routinely manage to hang on forever in Greece after you've destroyed the ability of the other two Roman factions to pose a threat by burning Italy to the ground. But the Brutii are like little Energizer bunnies - they keep on going, and going, and going. . .

[Quintus.JC]

In my campaigns all the Romans are really strong, but with Julii and Scipii as the obivous weaker two compared to Brutii. There's just no stop these guys from taking Greece and every province near it. Sure enough there have the best temples but also they could train their gladiators really early, in minor cities, such as Sparta after taking it, and with 2 exprience (Mars) and 2 HP they'd normally wipe out any light unit in the game early on, such as the ones the Dacians got.

[RLucid]

Once you learn how to win the big battles against large Hellenistic stacks, then the Brutii's strategic positional advantages, and financial strength is a real benefit.

The short campaign, probably takes a little longer than the Jullii short, but is more fun because of the Wonders. Having 2 factions to kill, and the spread of the Greeks, means it takes longer to get at them.

For long campaign, acquiring Illyria early on, and Patavium ought to stymie Jullii's long term prospects. The Scipii, are more problematic, unless you can snatch the sicilian Greek town (which fell very fast in my game, so was impossible to consider). If you would wander off, and attempt Carthage, like the Jullii player option, you really throw away the strategic advantages of concentration of effort in a compact, rich area.

Anti-Rebel

A fort + Town Watch north of Tarrentum, inhibits the annoying rebels who spawn disrupting trade between Tarrentum and Arinium.


Anti-Phalanx Fighting - Scary Looking Large Armies

In Reality Phalanxes are very easy to beat, and the Brutii have plenty of money to design suitable armies, rather than suffer compromises like Jullii, in Gaul with undeveloped towns. Try and strip off the supporting Cavalry and missile men first, as much as you can before the main forces start to clash. Cavalry may possibly requiring spearmen to fall back on before re-engaging, if you get caught with a deficit.

So use the Spies, and then use the info, so you can defeat the cavalry!

Avoid frontal compact or an unbroken line, be willing to use space to retreat behind waiting backup lines, and hit & run tactics in the gaps you create by maneuver. Infantry squares turn faster than lines, so when infantry are attacked, running towards a sides, cause significant eploitable disorganisation of the lumbering long spearmen who turn and present flanks to 2nd line forces.


Illyrian Mercs - Low upkeep, hard hitting Skirmishers, who if fresh can finish off a weakened Phalanx unit close-quarters, that has lost it's formation and can't use the spears effectively. But their main role is in maneuvering and hitting hard with Javelins from rear or flank as, Phalanx makes it's frontal creep assault against another unit.

Velites - Screen in early battle stages. Retreat from Frontal assault, hit flanks and rear with Javellins, and engage and pursue routers. They seem to get charged by AI cavalry gratifyingly often, so have some spearmen and cavalry waiting for a counter.

Some large battles the mainstay infantry (Hastati & Principes) haven't done anything more than watch, and then chase routing opposition to keep them moving and not reforming, so the Cav mops up. The reason is, that I try to keep them moving in squares, standing off the Phalanxes, which break when the moment to charge comes, and they're touch too slow to catch them up.

Sneeking into Dacia, you can recruit extra HC. Charging complete Phalanx from rear, with General unit leads to me losing the Gen, more often than I like.

So I like, using Echelons of Equites, try to use General HC against Light Lancers or opponents HC, once it's been engaged by counter-attacking spearmen, or and Equites unit. With Echelon, the 1st unit can attack or move behind, and the 2nd one can come in. Other units arriving, can then let your fragile light horse, have a rest before they get the jitters.

I actually prefer Barb mercs to Hoplites for anti-horse role. Though I try to use Merc Phalanxes, they seem rather feeble, though I guess as the AI will impale it's Horse on them, they make a good trap, for unwary cavalry.


Anti-Dacians

They have decent Light Infantry archers and some heavy hitting but poorly armoured troops. So the tactics to use are Cavalry charges, against the archers. You may be able to use oblique charge, to shift archer unit away from support, where a 2nd cavalry unit engages it, routing it, whilst the 1st breaks off it's attack short of line.

They are more sensible than some factions about withdrawing from battle field, when things start going wrong, so they are a little harder to annihiliate than Macs, Greeks, and Gauls for instance.

But frankly, why bother with the Dacians, until Macedon, and the Greeks are finished? They're likely to fight Germany and Thrace, and not show any interest in Segestica, Salonia or Macedon; unless you get in their way at Luvavum, which they show interest in, because it's the next rebel held place after Aquincum. The only city that's really worth holding is the Dacian capitol which has mines.


Naval Campaign

Some have written of very large Greek navies. Just be aggressive early on, and get your retaliation in first. Soon you will control the Aegean, and be blockading Rhodes, with Sparta & Corinth in your hands.

The spot where I may delay land action, is Sparta & Corinth, when the Greeks and Macs are fighting each other.

[RLucid]

In pre-Marian times, the roman military actually doesn't stand up to a well-formed Macedonian, Seleucid or Carthaginian force. Even barbarians like the Gauls can get their elite units quite quickly. If the AI used Phalanx armies better, conquest of Greece and the Balkans would be very hard indeed when playing the Bruti, making them the hardest roman faction, in spite of their fantastic temple options.

According to "Warfare in the Ancient World" Carey, Allfree and Cairns, the Macedonian wars ran from 238-179 BC, and were pre-marian. The Macs could not defeat the Manipular legions, but the mountain terrain made for stalemates strategically.

The Cohortal Legion, and Marian reform occur later, and the larger tactical units were in response to larger German Infantry wedges, meaning the Maniples of 160 men were too small.

Phalanxes were obsolete, there's a reason the Romans gave up on them (in fact Triarii are a Phalanx unit), the Etruscans had them. Contact with Iberian Infantry proved the greater efficiency of a looser order, more mobile fighting style. Combining the Pila, with shield and short sword gave, them greater flexibility.

The trend long term, was towards lighter more mobile, better articulated Infantry, and the Mac. phalanx shows that. The power of Philip II & Alexanders armies came from their balanced combined arms, with good generalship deploying them effectively against enemies who tended to seperate infantry and cavalry.

The fact that the Macs gave up on Phalanxes and adopted the Roman fighting style, rather should tell you something about the effective power of manipular v phalanx armies on real battlefields, where there's not a stylised convention to fight on a plain Heavy Infantry v Heavy Infantry with missiles despised (as existed in ancient Greece).

[Praetor Rick]

According to "Warfare in the Ancient World" Carey, Allfree and Cairns, the Macedonian wars ran from 238-179 BC, and were pre-marian. The Macs could not defeat the Manipular legions, but the mountain terrain made for stalemates strategically.

The Cohortal Legion, and Marian reform occur later, and the larger tactical units were in response to larger German Infantry wedges, meaning the Maniples of 160 men were too small.

Phalanxes were obsolete, there's a reason the Romans gave up on them (in fact Triarii are a Phalanx unit), the Etruscans had them. Contact with Iberian Infantry proved the greater efficiency of a looser order, more mobile fighting style. Combining the Pila, with shield and short sword gave, them greater flexibility.

The trend long term, was towards lighter more mobile, better articulated Infantry, and the Mac. phalanx shows that. The power of Philip II & Alexanders armies came from their balanced combined arms, with good generalship deploying them effectively against enemies who tended to seperate infantry and cavalry.

The fact that the Macs gave up on Phalanxes and adopted the Roman fighting style, rather should tell you something about the effective power of manipular v phalanx armies on real battlefields, where there's not a stylised convention to fight on a plain Heavy Infantry v Heavy Infantry with missiles despised (as existed in ancient Greece).

Historically correct, and correct in game when facing the AI as well. I'd question whether it's actually true in multiplayer fights, though - a human player will be far better able to apply the strengths of a phalanx unit than the AI can, that's for sure, and to compensate for its weaknesses. Still, I'm not a multiplayer fiend, so I'm not competent to argue the point.

I do know that phalanx units have proven at least as effective against the AI as roman style maniples and cohorts in my hands.

[RLucid]

The bottom line though is, that a Brutii player, facing Phalanxes in the Strategy game, has the means to easily destroy them, by recruiting a balanced combined arms force, with Dominant Cavalry and Missile troops, using systematic dismantlement piece by piece of the opposing army, who cannot bring their Sarissa's to bear offensively.

In RTW an MP battle will come down to the battle recruitment costs, and how much space for maneuver there is on the battlefield. The red-line business is rather unrealistic, as are the victory conditions; and the games are designed to be balanced. If the Phalanx units are cheap enough compared to Roman Infantry, then flanks could be protected by cavalry and non-Phalanx infantry, and they could be supported by enough missile men to patch up the inherent weaknesses. But once significant breaches develop the battle would be up. Roman style armies are more likely to remain coherent, and repulse a follow up, if some units withdraw, defeated to re-group, so can exploit terrain advantages better due to their flexibility..

The game battles also have the problem, that movement & battle stamina seem to be one variable, so heavily armoured troops climb easier than light troops who are supposed to be fast, agile and mobile. There also are a relative lack of terrain features like stream beds, and other impediments to maintaining an unbroken Phalanx line.

A statically set out "wagons in circle" Phalanx used by some MP players is vulnerable to missile fire in back, so archers fire to opposite side, according to MP player's posts.

Advancing Phalanx lines, have to creep forward without breaches occuring, and there has to be a reserve to cover any "tear" created by opposition, as well as a flank guard. There's a long thread on trouble deploying Phalanxes effectively, from that it appears the control issues, and avoiding gaps is not so simple. That line would have to be held even though only relatively few open order screen troops were deployed in front of many Phalanx units, because any breaks expose the whole line to enemy reserves.

When I've tried Phalanxes against AI, it is depressingly stupid, running Cavalry onto their spears and other unnatural acts, making it rather a mockery.

[salemty]

i hear people saying when u conquer a city to just train a few peasants as garrison. but i do not understand this because if the enemy attacks by the time u can train re-enforcments they've already taken the city. please explain

[RLucid]

The idea is that the army you captured the city with (possibly reinforced by follow on units) now conducts another attack, possibly intercepting to destroy an enemy army or simply besieging the next town. This presumes you capture the city with relatively small losses (which the Roman factions can and should be able to do).

Most won't rely on a garrison to defend a city, but use strategic mobility of army reserve to meet unexpected threats, as well as forts in choke points to delay attacks and allow production potential to reinforce your defence.

If you don't take sufficient garrison troops like Town Watch, you may well have to keep an influential general in the captured town, whilst garrisoning it. You may find small towns can be garrisoned with cheaper upkeep by an understrength unit (I've used 35 Illyrian Mercs once) rather than feeling compelled to use up 10% of population making peasants.

[salemty]

i understand that but if u have a whole bunch of cities with just a few peasants in each then if the enemy atacks u wont have time to train renforcments and most of the time there wont be enough mercenaries for ur general to hire to defeat the enemy and also if u attack with a releif force often the general u cant control will be killed in foolish charges. Once again, please explain

[RLucid]

If that's a danger you have a strategic reserve force, which you deploy to trouble spots. I tend to use TW garrison rather than Peasants with Roman factions because they are some use defensively on battlefield so march with the army, and the unshielded/unhelmeted dudes with a dagger just don't seem "Romanly" right to me.

The main thing is, that the AI is very slow, and also telegraphs it's attacks, so if you are suspicious of trouble, then having a spy wandering the bordering lands will give you plenty of warning. The ineffectiveness of AI is shown by the general disregard by players for upgrading walls, preferring mobile defense forces.

Even if you do lose a town, in general because you can invade areas more effectively and more rapidly than AI, so probably gain more by being aggressive than focusing on defense.

The Brutii have a lovely position, 2 cities with real allies to rear, low chance of amphibious landings by AI once headway has been made, and a large number of populous well developed cities to recruit at, close together.

So there really should be little problem, building armies in core areas, and a decent navy can land these armies in trouble spots.

[Praetor Rick]

i understand that but if u have a whole bunch of cities with just a few peasants in each then if the enemy atacks u wont have time to train renforcments and most of the time there wont be enough mercenaries for ur general to hire to defeat the enemy and also if u attack with a releif force often the general u cant control will be killed in foolish charges. Once again, please explain

Pretty much RLucid said what needs saying - if, as the Brutii, you are being attacked rather than doing the attacking, it's usually a sign that you're doing something desperately wrong.

If, as any faction, your garrisons are chosen primarily for being able to defeat an attacker rather than to maintain public order, you are similarly doing something desperately wrong.

It is, almost 100% of the time, more cost efficient to lose a city to an enemy attacker and have to momentarily divert a field force to recapture it than to keep strong military garrisons in all your vulnerable settlements. Garrison for public order, defend your settlements with field forces. Just for rebel squashing, you should have a number of smallish armies wandering around your empire, so there should usually be somebody around who can either lift the siege or recapture the settlement. Especially as the Brutii, who have the huge benefit of a very compact, rich, and populous theatre of expansion.

Also, when you have multiple armies in a battle, you can *USUALLY* control them, up to 20 units worth at a time, just by unchecking the box. I understand that it's not always, but frankly, I've never had a problem - my reinforcement armies are always controllable. Helps keep my family members from unauthorized suicidal charges into formed phalangites.

[RLucid]

Thanks! Thought of 2 more points to add to your explanation.

Family members out of towns, have advantage they can hire mercs; and also can be defeated but survive the battle. Getting an important general trapped in a town with moderate defense forces, is not good. Especially if relief is not at hand, and starvation is a real possibility.

Reinforcement armies which are captain led, rather than general led, seem to be the ones where unchecking the box works. So be careful when approaching armies/town you can't quite reach where a battle is a possibility. I've had some really dumb losses, basically caused by the AI doing dumb things, and the difficulty of coordinating with it to secure victory.

[Praetor Rick]

Thanks! Thought of 2 more points to add to your explanation.

Family members out of towns, have advantage they can hire mercs; and also can be defeated but survive the battle. Getting an important general trapped in a town with moderate defense forces, is not good. Especially if relief is not at hand, and starvation is a real possibility.

Reinforcement armies which are captain led, rather than general led, seem to be the ones where unchecking the box works. So be careful when approaching armies/town you can't quite reach where a battle is a possibility. I've had some really dumb losses, basically caused by the AI doing dumb things, and the difficulty of coordinating with it to secure victory.

It must be more complex than that - I've had reinforcement battles where both of my armies had generals, and I controlled everything.

Maybe you only lose control if you're on the defensive or something, I rarely get caught in defensive reinforcement battles.

[RLucid]

It can easily happen on 1st turn of a siege where spy fails to open gates. A relieving army attacks, and draws the reinforcing General into a surprise battle, with painful results.

The problem is that I take care to avoid the situations to. It was not clear why the AI insisted on control, and if I have assembly issues for an attack, it's only when movement goes somewhat wrong that I permit the risk. May be when you're attacked, the AI leads General led reinforcments. I can remember battles where I reinforced a captain army with a general, lost the rally ability but not control of it. But other times attacked, and found the AI annoyingly insisted on controlling the other stack. Could not see any consistency in it.

[Praetor Rick]

It can easily happen on 1st turn of a siege where spy fails to open gates. A relieving army attacks, and draws the reinforcing General into a surprise battle, with painful results.

The problem is that I take care to avoid the situations to. It was not clear why the AI insisted on control, and if I have assembly issues for an attack, it's only when movement goes somewhat wrong that I permit the risk. May be when you're attacked, the AI leads General led reinforcments. I can remember battles where I reinforced a captain army with a general, lost the rally ability but not control of it. But other times attacked, and found the AI annoyingly insisted on controlling the other stack. Could not see any consistency in it.

I guess I've just gotten lucky with it, then - the only way I knew the issue existed at all was reading about it on the forum.

[Celtic_Punk]

the scipii in my brutus campaign, went west secured greece (all i got was thermon and macedonia...) and now all they have left in asia minor is pontus... ive never seen them do this before, they didnt attack carthage... so i did. and the egyptians have conquered all of africa, except for my tiny portion of it. now im surrounded by angry, greekoegyptian's with chariots, and im stuck with heavy infantry... i do not think this is going to end well for my position in africa

[RLucid]

Sounds like a good case study in argument for early highly aggressive rapid expansion, to out-pace any moves AI makes in "your" area then.

[salemty]

i would like to know what cities u let the AI manage(if any) and at what point do u start allowing the AI to manage cities. thanks in advance

[Celtic_Punk]

personally man, i do all the management, i dont trust the ai... :P

but ive found if you've got a settlement managed by a faction member, do not put the tax rate over normal, or else he will begin to take penalties from it such as financial irregularity, or he will become a harsh ruler, or what have you. and if you are on at low for too long, he will become too nice, and will receive a lenience penalty.

you will have much better growth and development if you manage all cities yourself.