Carthage

[Guyus Germanicus]

Pianonator,
I think you will find building your navy to be a real key. You can really inhibit the military operations of your enemies. Blockading their ports puts a serious dent in their commerce. The Brutii are vulnerable there. Personally, I can't imagine winning the long campaign without naval supremacy. I'm sure some have done it, but I can't envision it myself.
If you're producing real quality units, the Gauls should be a pushover. If the Brutii are showing some real quality troops, you have a nice healthy challenge on your hands. I'm playing a long Julii game at the moment, but would like to do a long Carthage game so I can try out the elite units. I've been setting up some custom games at normal level and hard level. I tried out Carthaginan sacred band vs. Spartan hoplites. The Carths won, but the Greeks are weak in cavalry. I think the hoplites would have fared better had they had some force on their flanks that they could depend on. I want to try Gaul royal swordsmen on Praetorian cohorts next. The Roman factions' wide variety of cavalry makes them an extremely formidable enemy if you take any of the other factions against them in campaign. And their infantry are tough hombres too. Such a variety.
Keep us posted.
Guyus

[pianonator]

Yeah, I've never really had an easy time with navies. In my first game, Scipii long on N/N, I won without really using much of a navy. Basically, I only made short hops, and killed big naval civs on land. As the Scipii, I sailed to various Greek cities and took them, took Carthage, and then I was pretty much done sailing. I mostly just land-roamed around. From Carthage through Spain to Gaul to England one way, and from Thermon to Athens to all of Macedonia the other way. Then, from Italy everywhere to finish off Rome and the campaign. That was on N/N, though, so I really didn't have much of a problem. The other Romans did cause problems for me with their navies and almost ruined my economy, but I just blitzkrieged the Julii and killed their navies from the land, so to speak. The Brutii were pretty much landlocked, by some freak of nature.

Unfortunately, now I'm on H/H, and I do need a bigger navy than I have. Luckily, now that I really control the entire mediterranian rim from Egypt around North Africa and all the way around to Italy, I don't tend to have that much trouble. I now have enough modest fleets to defend from blockades, but not enough yet to ruin the Brutii financially. I think I'll buid up my fleets in Sicily or Corsica and sail them around to Greece.

I figure if I keep Apolos on small stone walls and keep onagers inside, I could wither away many a Brutii army. Basically, I am dead sick of fighting the Romans with 2.5- to 3-on-1 odds. Sometimes I can win with Elephants and Phalanxes, but they always have more men. I figure I'll just take their big cities and force them into costly sieges. Note to self - next time, don't let the Brutii survive.

Question - if you kill the last family member, what happens to a faction? Is it like Medieval, and they all turn into easily mopped up rebels? Do the armies and navies just disappear, leaving only garrisons? I think I've almost gotten rid of the whole Egyptian family, and I'd like to keep them a complete faction so that they can fight the Brutii on their Eastern Front for a while.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Answer to your last question - yes. ... If you eliminate the last family member, the remnants become rebels. If the faction was holding a city when you killed their last family member, the city becomes rebel. Conversely, if you take a faction's last city, the surviving faction members simply become rebels. AND, whatever armies they had disappear. They simply survive as small rebel groups containing the faction member(s) only. In a short Julii game I played at normal/normal, I took the last Gallic city Numantia. The faction leader had posted himself near Numantia's port with a full stack of units in ambush posture. When the city fell, his stack disappeared, but he remained along with another faction member that was in the stack. I didn't understand why the AI allowed me to just walk right in to the last Gallic city, lightly defended, when this huge army was just sitting there near the port doing nothing. When I reach victory condition I always press "continue" so I can, in essence, save the game from a victory position, and then I clean up the newly captured city with repairs and replacements, THEN I exit to main menu. Just a quirk of mine, and just in case I want to go back and play the short game to a long finish.

I don't know exactly what happens to the navies when a faction is eliminated. I have assumed that they become rebel too, but I don't have any personal experience to tell of that. I do appreciate your desire to keep the Egyptians alive to annoy the Brutii. In my current game, the Macedonians sent three armies (one of them huge) into my Yugoslavian province. They made out as if they wanted me to attack them and start a fight. I brought two formidable stacks and brought them nose-to-nose with the Macedonian huge stack. They flinched, and moved back to their home turf without attacking and just in time to take on the Brutii. I didn't declare war on the Macs until the Brutii had captured Larissa, and had three Mac cities under siege - Appolonia, Thessalonica, and Athens. Then I went after Bylazora. Currently, I'm trying to sneak an army to Corinth to take that from the Greeks before the Brutii get a shot at it. I want that wonder at Corinth to counter the Brutii's temple advantages and captured Greek cities for when the civil war approaches.

I occasionally have some geopolitically weird developments occur in my games. Current game - Scipii make an alliance with Carthage. Senate commands me to take Caralis. I take Caralis. Scipii break alliance with me and Rome. They eventually end up joining us in a declaration of war against Carthage. But I have to send my diplomats to Capua to mend fences. They usually rejoin me in alliance, but getting military accesses re-established is a different issue. I've had Roma break allliance with me because they were allied with the Germans, and the Germans attacked me, not vice versa. They eventually join with me in the war, but I have to send a diplomat to Rome to re-establish the alliance. Then I usually gift them military access. Roma has always accepted the gift. But the Brutii and the Scipii never seem to want to re-establish military accesses even when I try to gift it to them one-sidedly. Interesting.

[pianonator]

I've gotten to the unfortunate stage of the long game.

I'm having a hard time repairing my economy - Before I entered into open war with the Brutii about 20 or so turns ago (I've been at war with them for about 230 years, but haven't crossed paths since I kicked them out of Italy), my economy was huge and amazing. Now, the money just seems to disappear. There are a couple of reasons for this.
#1: The 1.5 patch, (maybe the 1.3 patch - I don't know) makes diplomacy way harder, as well as running cities.
#2: The Brutii are really good at ruining economies.

Essentially, I've gotten to the same stage of the game as I was at the end of my Scipii campaign - I must sack a huge city of a weak enemy to pay for my war with the Brutii. Last time, it was the Macedonians - every time my economy was in trouble, I'd exterminate a Macedonian huge city. Now, the Egyptians are the weak but fat enemies - every time I get in trouble, I just sack me a huge city. Exterminating the Egyptians to pay for a war with the Brutii. I am a bad man.

How the heck to those cities grow so fast??? I exterminated every Egyptian city I've come across (haven't taken Damascus yet), but now Thebes, Alexandria, and Memphis are in the 30,000 range! Holy proverbial cows, batman. I'm at the point where I'm just pumping peasants out of Egypt and moving them to tiny towns - I think I'll move them to that tiny town in the Sahara.

Talking of which - I didn't even know that place existed until I checked the map that came in the box today. That little town in the Sahara? Yeah - been independant since I killed the Nubs 100-150 years ago. Probably since before then. My screen is a little skewed, so I couldn't see it on the minimap.

[pianonator]

Sorry for the double-post

Something must be broken in my game. The pyramids are broken. For about 10 turns or so they worked, but now the Egyptians are rioting like crazy! I swear I slaughtered Sidon like 4 turns ago, but now it has almost 50,000 people in it!!! What the heck happened? Why are my pyramids not making them happy? I checked the settlement scrolls for all my egyptian settlements, and none of them even take into consideration the pyramids! I'm panicking for a couple reasons. #1, the Egyptians are revolting, and #2 I can't figure out where all my money is going! In one turn I went from 20000 gold to -3000. Help!!

[Phoenix]

The Pyramids should be working, they only eliminate the cultural penalty of Egytian buildings, they don't make them happy beyond that.

As for the rioting, focus on building and upgrading only the buildings that improve public order until they're happy like Secret Police HQ and Public Baths. If the towns you're dealing with don't have Seth or Horus Temples, tear them down and build the Baal Temples. Moving the Capital closer to Egypt, like Cyrene, might help as well. Also, if those towns aren't fully garrisoned use the peasants you're making to garrison them.

Hope this helps.

[pianonator]

Hey, welcome Phoenix! I feel honored that you used your first post to help me out!

Thanks for the advice - The trouble is, if I move my capital, there's not much I can do to keep Spain from revolting. I strike a delicate balance, and Carthage is pretty much in the exact center of my map.

That peasant idea might work - considering the ungodly rate of Egyptian population growth, I won't really need them to help out Damascus, and I don't really need a big Saharan town. It'll be nice to have a "town" again that I can keep 2 town watches in to keep loyal.

I thought about the temple thing - haven't tried it yet. Trouble is, if I tear down those temples, they WILL revolt NOW. I suppose I could load to an older game, when the Sidons and the Hebrews weren't screaming for my blood.

My final thought is to abandon the towns and either seige them or use their garrisons to hunt down the remaining Egyptian family members, and end my threat in the East. Then, I'll be dealing with easy-picking rebels without a cause. Plus, I'll get to exterminate the ingrateful sons-of-guns.

[Phoenix]

Thanks for the welcome.

If your Public Order doesn't drop to 60% then tearing down those Temples should still work. Rioting doesn't occur at 70% and at 65% you get 2 or 3 turns of rioting before they revolt. I think you also get a turn of rioting before they revolt at 60% but I'm not sure. Aside from using peasants the only other thing I can think of is moving any high-influence family members you have to those towns as each influence point increases Public Order by 5%. If you don't have any around you might try building and upgrading academies so that whoever you send there might get traits that improve influence though that will depend a bit on luck.

Personally, I'd just exterminate the troublemakers.

[Empirate]

Building for public order might work for a while, but it is mostly a short-term solution. Let them rebel. If you can orchestrate it so only one city rebels at a time, so much the better. But rebel they will sooner or later, so just let them. Then enjoy killing 2400 double-gold-chevroned peasants in one glorious day of revenge. After which, you are going to even more enjoy exterminating populations in your 50,000-population-cities, making them all the more manageable and giving your treasury a huge windfall.
Keep a powerful, siege-equipped army near your rioting cities so you can initiate plan "exterminate and rebuild" quickly. And do not get a bad conscience - it's only virtual people you are massacring...

[pianonator]

Just a historical question:
I've done a little research, and my sources are conflicting as to whether or not the Carthaginians ever used the giant African Plains elephants necessary to carry a howda or wear armor. Some sources say they only used the African Bush Elephant, which is smaller than the Asian elephant, and would only produce a basic elephant unit in RTW. Does anybody have definite information? I'd like to think they did have Savanna elephants and did the whole armoring thing. I don't like being too terribly ahistorical.

Another question - why am I unable to post in a forum other than these guides? I always get the 'not allowed to post here' or something message.

Oh well.

[Drusus Magnus]

Just a historical question:
I've done a little research, and my sources are conflicting as to whether or not the Carthaginians ever used the giant African Plains elephants necessary to carry a howda or wear armor. Some sources say they only used the African Bush Elephant, which is smaller than the Asian elephant, and would only produce a basic elephant unit in RTW. Does anybody have definite information? I'd like to think they did have Savanna elephants and did the whole armoring thing. I don't like being too terribly ahistorical.

Another question - why am I unable to post in a forum other than these guides? I always get the 'not allowed to post here' or something message.

Oh well.

RTW has a lot of historical inaccuracies, the makers of the game implemented them on purpose to give the mob what the mob wants. Same reason why the Egyptians don't look Greek. They look like they would have looked in 3000 BC, to go along with the stereotype.

[pianonator]

Yeah, I kind of figured about the Egyptians. I'd really like to find out about the elephants of carthage, though, because I'm really confused. Some primary sources reported seeing men on elephant houdas, and lots of classical artwork pictures Hannibal's elephants as being big savanna types, but other sources quote those as being exaggerated.

Similarly, I am curious about the historical accuracy of the arcani (aka Latin Ninjas). Seriously - were those guys real? Also - cataphract camels - holy cow. It would be so cool if they were, and some of them probably are - I'd just like to know which ones, ya know?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Just a historical question:
I've done a little research, and my sources are conflicting as to whether or not the Carthaginians ever used the giant African Plains elephants necessary to carry a howda or wear armor. Some sources say they only used the African Bush Elephant, which is smaller than the Asian elephant, and would only produce a basic elephant unit in RTW. Does anybody have definite information? I'd like to think they did have Savanna elephants and did the whole armoring thing. I don't like being too terribly ahistorical.

RTW Vanilla is gleefully a-historical. The number of silly anachronisms and out-right fictions is shocking. I still love the game, but if you want something that's really true-to-life (at least to the fullest extent possible within the engine) try EB. I'm waiting until they're off beta and into full version, but it looks superb.

Another question - why am I unable to post in a forum other than these guides? I always get the 'not allowed to post here' or something message.

Oh well.

Junior member status limits you a good bit. You upgrade to member after a set number of posts (barring bad behavior) and then you'll have access to all of them -- including the dreaded backroom.

[Ludens]

Yeah, I kind of figured about the Egyptians. I'd really like to find out about the elephants of carthage, though, because I'm really confused. Some primary sources reported seeing men on elephant houdas, and lots of classical artwork pictures Hannibal's elephants as being big savanna types, but other sources quote those as being exaggerated.

African bush elephants (the big ones) were used for warfare, but only occasionally. Generally, the more relaible Indian or African forrest elephants (smallest elephant species, now extinct) were used. I am not sure which one Carthage used, though. IIRC they didn't have direct access to bush elephants, but they were allied to Egypt, who had.

Similarly, I am curious about the historical accuracy of the arcani (aka Latin Ninjas). Seriously - were those guys real? Also - cataphract camels - holy cow. It would be so cool if they were, and some of them probably are - I'd just like to know which ones, ya know?

As far as I know, there is only one reference to the Arcani in history. This is when the Emperor disbands them for having failed to predict the Saxon invasion of England. Bribery was suspected. Apart from being beyond R:TW's timeframe and into BI's, there is also nothing to suggest that they were some sort of Ninja.

Cataphract camels were an experimental unit of the Parthians, I think. They did not continue the experiment, so it probably wasn't a success.

Junior member status limits you a good bit. You upgrade to member after a set number of posts (barring bad behavior) and then you'll have access to all of them -- including the dreaded backroom.

Actually, promotion is not dependent on post count, but on participation. Off course, you have to post a little so the moderators can get to know you, but just posting a lot won't get you promoted.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Pianonator,

Concerning the kind of elephants the Carthaginians used, I have a book in my library entitled Daily Life in Carthage by Gilbert and Colette Charles-Picard, Macmillan press, 1961. To quote from their book, "These animals still lived in Barbary in Punic times. They were part of the tropical fauna stranded by the drying up of the Sahara, and as there was not enough vegetation for them to feed on, they were smaller and not so strong as their relatives in Central Africa. They were even less powerful than the Indian elephants. But, like the latter, they could be trained. Fantastic legends praised their sagacity and even their moral and religious sense. They were said to be able to put out forest fires with branches, and to assemble in the Moroccan forest for a solemn purification ceremony by the light of the new moon. They were therefore regarded as 'celestial' animals." They go on to suggest that the idea for using them in warfare was borrowed from the Greeks.
Thought you'd be interested in that passage.
The book goes on to say that Scipio's tactics for combatting the elephants was to provide lanes between his units that the elephants would naturally flow into. Then he would surround them and destroy them.

[pianonator]

Huh...it appears I am a member - perhaps 20 was a magic number. Anyway, thanks, Guild!

I abandoned Sidon at 5% loyalty, and it gave the Egyptians a 1200 man army in a settlement surrounded by Carthage. In one save-game instance, I managed to assassinate the last Egyptian family member, but .... the faction didn't die. I didn't keep going on that save-game, because I had lost a settlement to the Brutii because of logistical stupidity with my save-Apollonia army but it almost seems as though the Egyptians pulled a MTW - HRE and just created for themselves a new leader. They still had 4 huge cities - Hadra, Palmyra, Satt-something, and Sidon - is there a high-population override for the dead-family thing?

[GeneralHankerchief]

If cities are still belonging to Egypt then there's at least one guy alive carrying on the Egyptian tradition. Re-check your cities to see if there are any in there. If there are, you're lucky. If not, you have to comb that huge Arabian deset to find the last Egyptian.

(Or you could just turn on Fog of War and just mouse around until you find him, it's much easier that way )

[pianonator]

Well, I used the ol' process of elimination method to find the guy. He wasn't in any cities, and he sure as anything wouldn't be hanging out in neighboring provinces on some campaign, because he'd get his butt kicked. I decided to look in the only place he could be - those 3 crazy crazy crazy huge navies that the Egyptians like to stick in that body of water (Lake? Red Sea? Part of the Nile?) - like 25 triremes in each fleet. I always had it in my mind to beat them up, but then I figured I'd just wait for them to disapear once I took out the faction. Well, aparently there was some big battle near Petra, and a family member retreated with a few units of chariots into one of those navies.

I have an assassin in Egypt who can kill you with his brain, and an assassin in Apollonia who get's 95% chances of killing high-profile Brutii family member, but I don't have a 25 ship fleet in the red sea capable of taking the guy down. Can I assassinate the ship-bound cheapskate? I don't think he's going to disembark anytime soon. Is there a way I can convince him to disembark? I've known the Brutii to keep a full stacked army on a ship for 15 years before moving it anywhere, and near as I can tell the guy's been there for 20+ years.

Suggestions? These Egyptian revolters are really causing me grief, and I can't say enough how much I'd rather have rabble than full-stacked Egyptian armies.
Choice 1) Assassination (my favourite, but can you DO that?
Choice 2) Pull a Trafalger on the guy
Choice 3) He's 43 years old - just wait for him to die.

[rotorgun]

Hello all, I'm Rotorgun and new to the Carthage threads. I just began my first Carthaginian campaign last weekend, and am already having a ton of fun. I've been following the latest posts and it seems that everyone has some great games going on. @ pianonator, I'd say you have quite a problem on your hands. Pulling a Trafalgar on these fleets will be time consuming and costly I think. As to waiting for him to die, that could also take as many as twenty turns if he is long lived. There is one way you might help him along towards an early sarcophogus-send a suicide fleet at his with a plague ridden crew on board. That's assuming you can summon a plague infected spy or family member to participate in such a venture. All you have to do is embark him on the ships, send him at the enemy fleet with the family member you want to infect, and then engage the fleet. It should introduce the plague into the their crews and presto, lifespan shortened. At least it might be worth a try.

As for my campaign, I decided to adopt the Sicilia first approach. I'm playing on hard/medium settings, as I want to have a challenging strategic game with normal battles to overcome my inexperience with the Carthaginians in battle. Having taken such a tack, it required going on the defensive on all other fronts for now, until I've secured my control over the island. I have made a tenuous alliance with Greece, Spain, Numidia, and Egypt, all which took some time to attain with the exception of Greece. It seems that they really desired an alliance as Syracuse came under almost immediate attack from the Scipii. After shipping some reiforcements to Lilybaeum, I formed an army there with my best general, elephants included. As the Scipii were heavily commited to taking Syracuse, I was able to take Messana in one turn with the help of my elephants to break down the Gates and walls. It was really no contest as it was only guarded by a few Velite, a Town Watch, a Hastati, and one Equite. After taking a turn to consolidate, I sent the army on to Syracuse, which had fallen quickly to the Romans.

Syracuse was defended by a sizable force of troops- about 6 Hastati, 1 Roman Archer, 2 Velite, and 1 horse mounted Scipii family member and his Bodyguard. I was really surprised that they sallied out to meet me after only one turn of the siege. It was a little dicey for awhile, as I only had 2 Iberian Infantry, supported by 2 skirmishers and 1 Bealeric Slinger unit. My saving grace were the 2 Round Shield Cavalry, 2 Numidian Cavalry, my General, and of course the Elephants. I was able to back off a little from the city walls and form a line before the enemy struck. When they did, it was in the typical Roman fashion. By streching my infantry out a bit, I was able to hold the line just long enough for my Cavalry and Elephants to go to work. I can now see why everyone likes playing this faction so much, for it wasn't long before I had the legionaries streaming back in confusion toward the gates. Those Elephants are terrific for breaking up their cohesion! The only Scipii unit I had trouble dealing with were the Archers. I had to take their attacks until I could destroy and route enough of his infantry to leave them vulnerable to my horse. Once the enemy General was killed by my General, it was all downhill for the brave Romans. Syracuse fell to me by defaut, and I didn't have to go to war with Greeks as a result. It was a satisactory engagement indeed!

My next task will be to take the war to the Scipii at Capua. I plan to take them out of the game as soon as possible, then assault the Brutii cities in southern Italy. If I find I can't hold them, I will destroy every building in them and then give them over to the Rebels. It should slow the Brutii down quite awhile, as they are almost always heavily involved in Greece. As for the Julii, I have been forced to give up Sardinia. I did defend it for a turn or two when they sent a small force of two Hastati to take Caralis. I drove them off, but they were only a covering force for a much bigger army that landed on the next turn. It was just too difficult to support it while taking Sicilia. The pesky Julii then tried to assault Palma as well with the same two Hastati (now reduced in strength) that I had driven back to the boats. It was laughable, but I admired their pluck. After a few turns of retreat to the boats every time I engaged them, I finally cornered them and....well, you can imagine. I keep expecting another landing, but I think that the Julii are rather busy in the north with the Guals. Speaking of them, they did try to assault Corduba with a rather decent force of Warband, Skirmishers, and one Noble Cavalry. I lay a trap for them in the streets of Corduba with my 2 Iberian Infantry, 1 Skirmisher and Slingers. I kept my Cavalry back behind some buildings on both flanks in hiding. As the Gual infantry began to get bottlenecked in the streets I sprung my trap. As their general had hung back a bit, I was able to isolate and destroy him with 2 Roundshield Cavalry, and used my own General and 1 remaining Roundshield to take his infantry in the rear. It was a slaughter, with only one unit of wardogs able to rout of the map. I did lose a lot of infantry, but they did hold off the attacks of the Warband, which had no way of flanking them in the narrow streets. I expect them to be back, but I will await them at the bridge north of the city next time.

Well, as usual I've gone on far too long. I hope some of my post was interesting to someone. Thanks for listening in any case. Good luck to all and I look forward to reading more of your tales of sucess or woe in the near future.

[Phoenix]

You can't assassinate a family member that's in a ship but if you take all settlements that belong to the Egyptians then their remaining units will either disband (if they're medium or high-quality units and I think this includes Triremes) or turn Rebel (lower-quality units and family members).

[pianonator]

Thanks, everybody. If a plague breaks out in the Egypt area, I may try rotorgun's idea, but I think I'm just going to take the rest of the Egyptian cities. They only have 3 left, and one of them I'd like to trust the Greeks or the Romans to take. All their cities are now separated - they have Sardis, Hadra, and Sidon. Hadra has a 3/4 stack army, and Sidon has a full stack, but far away Sardis has only one unit. Leaving it to the AI may be a lost cause, so I'm building up a hit-and-run army Tarsis to take the town and probably leave.

Rotorgun - For the love of all things tastey - hold Italy! I don't know how much you have read of other posts, but for goodness sakes hold Italy. Never ever stop chasing the Brutii! The Julii can be distracted by the Gauls - they tend to get nowhere. In my game, I kicked the Brutii out of Italy, but left them alone in Greece - big mistake. I took out the Scipii, the Julii, and Rome fairly swiftly, but was too distracted by the Numidians to pursue those Brutii. Do not make my mistake - now they consistantly give me grief with their Marius-reformed armies. I only have 6 more provinces to nab, so I'm probably just going to take a few Brutish towns, some Gaulish towns, and the rest of Egypt.

I'll repeat my doctrine: You never choose whether you fight the Romans,or when you fight them, only where you fight them. Keep Capua. Keep Croton. Keep every Italian province you can get. Don't let the Brutii escape to where they can dominate while you're busy elsewhere. Until the Marius reforms, you can trust the Gauls to hold the Julii.

Anyway - wow...either you're really good at diplomacy, or you have an unpatched version of RTW.

[rotorgun]

Thanks, everybody. If a plague breaks out in the Egypt area, I may try rotorgun's idea, but I think I'm just going to take the rest of the Egyptian cities. They only have 3 left, and one of them I'd like to trust the Greeks or the Romans to take. All their cities are now separated - they have Sardis, Hadra, and Sidon. Hadra has a 3/4 stack army, and Sidon has a full stack, but far away Sardis has only one unit. Leaving it to the AI may be a lost cause, so I'm building up a hit-and-run army Tarsis to take the town and probably leave.

I tend to agree. This is probably the best way to eliminate the problem and also has the advavtage of giving you the initiative. It may even draw his royal highness off the ships, wher you can then deal with him in the open.

Rotorgun - For the love of all things tastey - hold Italy! I don't know how much you have read of other posts, but for goodness sakes hold Italy. Never ever stop chasing the Brutii! The Julii can be distracted by the Gauls - they tend to get nowhere. In my game, I kicked the Brutii out of Italy, but left them alone in Greece - big mistake. I took out the Scipii, the Julii, and Rome fairly swiftly, but was too distracted by the Numidians to pursue those Brutii. Do not make my mistake - now they consistantly give me grief with their Marius-reformed armies. I only have 6 more provinces to nab, so I'm probably just going to take a few Brutish towns, some Gaulish towns, and the rest of Egypt.

I'll repeat my doctrine: You never choose whether you fight the Romans,or when you fight them, only where you fight them. Keep Capua. Keep Croton. Keep every Italian province you can get. Don't let the Brutii escape to where they can dominate while you're busy elsewhere. Until the Marius reforms, you can trust the Gauls to hold the Julii.

Upon reflection, it seems that this may be the way to proceed. If I can hold off hostilities with the Spanish ans Numidians with continued diplomacy for awhile, then what you suggest has some merit. I like to keep the Romans off guard as well. It is the best way to deal with them IMHO.

Anyway - wow...either you're really good at diplomacy, or you have an unpatched version of RTW.

Thanks, but I am just lucky I guess, but I do have the latest update because I have installed BI. I don't think the peace will hold for long, so I'm trying to build up my forces in the west to prepare for the coming attack. The AI is probably waiting to see which way direction I will go.
Thanks for the input,
Rotor

[GeneralHankerchief]

Piano: I'd say that you have a long way to go from completely destroying Egypt, no matter what you do. It'll take some time to destroy the cities, and you have no idea how long it will be before Ptolemy here kicks the bucket. Unless you strike gold with a plague, I'd say take the cities. Keep 'em too, the Eastern Mediterranean is pretty wealthy.

Rotor: Eventually you're going to have to go to war with probably both Numidia and Spain. Depending on how things go, Spain might have to deal with a Gallic threat and leave you alone (especially if you keep the Julii busy in Italy). Numidia however... eventually you're going to have to fight them. Same tactics apply taking them down as you did when you were Scipii. Take lots of cavalry, some Libyan Spearmen, and possibly skirmishers/slingers (I despise slingers for everything except taking out chariots).

I actually left the Brutii alone in one of my Carthaginian campaigns and those green meanies came back to bit me a number of times. I'd recommend going for them after Capua is yours. That way you have a strong structure when going for Rome.

In the meantime, I'd recommend upgrading the military buildings in your core cities (Carthage, Thapsus, Corduba). Any cities that can build elephants, upgrade the stables. Also, Libyan Spearmen are incredibly useful when fighting Numidians or barbarians.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Regarding the "attack Rome" theme of advice above:

From a gamiing perspective, this is absolutely the best strategy. Conquering Rome is a specific requirement for the win, and the 4 Romani factions are annoyingly well funded and painfully persistent -- implacable -- as foes. Thus, once war with them arrives, the most logical choice is to repulse the initial Roman attack, fleet over, and conquer all of Italy. This is vital to complete before the Marian reforms, in order to crush them while they cannot field useful cavalry, long-range archers, or legionary infantry.

This is true not only for Carthage, but for most of the other factions as well. Britain should build a fleet, equip it with a powerful full-stack of its best forces and sail directly for Rome at about 250B.C. The same is true for Scythia. If you can eradicate most of the Roman factions and take Italy, you will win.

This is also: ahistorical, grossly imbalanced, and capable of defeating your own entertainment goals. Of course you know Rome is the biggest threat -- you have 2 millenia of history evaluations to tell you that -- but where is the fun of winning that way? I could modify my peasants up to 20 attack, 20 armor, and 3 HP each and increase my archer's range to that of a heavy onager, but where's the success?

The AI already has enough problems keeping up -- don't force it to fight 20th century strategic deep strike doctrine along with the rest of it.

[pianonator]

I admit - it may be a tiny bit boring now if I had not let the Brutii live. But by ahistorical do you mean it 'wouldn't' or 'couldn't' happen? Carthage starts off the game fighting a 4+ front war - even historically, if they could have they would have crushed Rome right out.

Anyway, I wasn't able to read these forums since my last post, but I did finish the 50-city long campaign as Carthage (is it a function of the patch that I have the option to continue? That wasn't there before.)

I assassinated 2 Gaulish faction leaders, took 2 more Gaulish provinces, and fought 2 family-lead Gaulish armies, which finially destroyed the faction. The Brutii immediately came up to snatch an abandoned city, as did I. The next turn, I fought a pitched 2.5-on-1 battle against the Egyptians, but I won with the good-ol phalanx and elephants. A recently came-of-age Egyptian died there. I also retook Sidon, and exterminated the rebellious sons-of-guns, along with another family member. That was a few turns earlier. I also took a quick-strike army up to take Sardis, which housed another family member and a wonder. The wonder stopped my rebellion problems. I could have just taken Hadra, but I had been building 3 gold/gold ships per turn, and by this time I was able surround and Trafalgar'd the blighter.

Thus, in 2 or so turns, a 3 front war turned into a 1 front war - the first time in my whole campaign I was only fighting one person - the Brutii. If I continue, I'd probably just keep on taking Brutish cities, because I have momentum now. I keep on crushing their armies which are sieging Apollonia with an army of Sacred Band, 3 armoured Elephants, and 5 Onagers. I also took Thermon by assassinating the lonely family member there. The Brutii have the rest of the Wonders, so I could keep those Egyptians loyal by periodically capturing one. However, I have the feeling that "Balance of Power" will kick in - the Greek cities, Parthia, Germania, and Britain will all declare war on me. Hmm...I shall see.

I'll probably play as Carthage again later, on VH/VH (this time was H/H), and I'll do a few things differently.
1) Pursue the Brutii - fighting the Brutii and the Egyptians at the same time steals my joy.
2) Build a better navy. (I am so bad at that)
3) Build up my African provinces more. By the end of the game, only 2 provinces could build Armoured Els - Carthage and Antioch. Thapsus was on its way, though.

Peasants - the Poor Man's police force
Assassin - the Poor Man's vendetta army
Diplomat - the Poor Man's Rich Man

By transitivity, the best defense is Blitzkrieg.

[ezrider]

I have to admit that a lot of people are getting flustered with this whole carthage with 4 fronts thing.
I have complete a julii long campaign as my first RTW experience and now playing H/H Carthage. I'm a few years in and I have pinned the Scipii back in capua, captured all of sicily, lepsis magna and that other rebel town further along the coast. I have a diplomat on the way to crete and ony come under pressure from the Spanish. Each time they send an army its skirmishers and light cavalry which I usually trounce without any hastle.

I have thought that since a navy is important that I would build loads of ships. Unfortuately, under the strain of supporting said ships, Carthage is losing money but at least the Senate & Scipii are blockaded and so will the julii. I'm a bit worried about greece since they refused an alliance but hey, they preoccupied at the mo. I think that I've been a bit lucky so far and I want to know:
How do I check the difficulty settings after I started the game?

other questions include:
What does carthage have to combat the Phalanx?
Is it true they can't recruit archers?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What does carthage have to combat the Phalanx?
Is it true they can't recruit archers?

Phalanx: Depends on support.

If phalanx is supported by long range archers and/or cavalry, you'll need to take on their cavalry with elephants & your own cavalry, while saving a good cav unit or two to flank and go after the archers. Win the cav battle, take out the archers then the old reliable: hammer the phalanx from flank after pinning front.

If phalanx is supported by sword infantry but not long range archers and cavalry, then you can cheap them using slingers for low casualties.

In general, you can't rely on bows to soften them up the way you do with other armies -- Carthage is about using your so-so infantry to pin them long enough for your cavalry (including heffalumps) to wreck them. Slingers snipe, annoy, distract, and hammer anybody who is dumb enough to stand still and let them -- just don't use your slingers from the second row.

Archers: Can buy Cretans like everyone else -- no home-growns (at least in vanilla).

[Phoenix]

Depending on how many ships you built you might want to disband a few. The AI doesn't concentrate its naval power so AI fleets generally have 1-3 ships while pirate fleets tend to have 3-6.

Carthage's situation improves by alot once you conquer Spain and Numidia. Numidia can be taken out by a half-stack of Libyans or Poeni Infantry and Long Shields plus some mercenaries, but Spain is more rewarding.

How do I check the difficulty settings after I started the game?

I don't think there is one but I'll try to find out if there is one later today.

What does carthage have to combat the Phalanx?

My two favorite ways depending on the stage of the game:

1. I use a stack that has a lot of Iberians with some Long Shields, then I divide the Iberians into several groups so that the phalanx breaks up into smaller groups while the Long Shields try to distract a few more as well as hopefully getting rid of any non-phalanxes and the general if there is one. When the phalanxes are divided enough I have the Iberians attack by having one or, if needed, two units pin the front of each group while having the rest attack the flanks and rear. If I have any skirmishers/peltasts I turn off Fire-at-Will and have them shoot the phalanxes only in the back. Then, when ready, I have the Long Shields make rear-attacks on the phalanx groups one or two at a time concentrating on the most troublesome groups first. The reason I like to use Iberians is that they have more attack than Libyans and are cheaper though I suppose you can do the same with Libyans. I beat several Greek armies of Hoplites/Armored Hoplites on Sicily this way.

2. My own phalanxes. Poeni Infantry are one of the most cost effective phalanx units in the game with 9 Attack, 7 Armor, 6 Defense, and 5 Shield...same as Armored Hoplites except for 4 less Armor points and capable of beating even Pharoah's Guards and Phalanx Pikemen on Medium. On Hard they'll need cavalry support though, but I always use mixed armies anyway. Sacred Bands are even better when you can afford them.

Is it true they can't recruit archers?

Yeah, but you have easy access to Balaeric Slingers with the ones at Palma available with 2 EXP points and I find that unlike with regular slingers, Balaeric/Rhodian Slingers can shoot over the heads of your troops as long as your army is deployed on roughly level ground and I deploy them behind my lines all the time.

[pianonator]

Well, my favorite way to fight a phalanx is to let the Romans do it for you, and then just beat the Romans.

Phoenix has a good idea. I haven't fought a phalanx army in a long while as Carthage - mostly I had to deal with some Nile Spearmen and Pharoahs Guards. The Greeks' favorite way to deal with phalanxes was to have a better phalanx. The wonderful thing about Phalanxes is that if you attack them on more than one face, their formation starts to break. A solid line of phalanx units? Flank them with light infantry, hold them with Poenis or Sacred Band, and bring up some Long Shields in the rear. Of course, if you can run sideways through them with Elephants, so much the better.

I went through most of my campaign without being anywhere near Crete, but I never really missed having archers, except on seige defense. Putting slingers on the walls helps a bit. I think the no-archers thing is just another way CA punished Carthage for being awesome. Along with the 4-front war from turn 2 thing.

I tend to agree that poeni infantry are awesome. They are cheap, and in a nice small unit. Going from Roman Auxilia as the only spearmen to Poeni Infantry was a nice jump. Of course, if you can afford and wait for Sacred Band, go for it, but a big army of 8 Poenis, 4 Long Shields, 2 Elephants, and some Onagers can be quickly put together, and makes short work of just about anybody. Don't be afraid to be cheap as carthage - you don't have archers, so it's OK. ;)

[ezrider]

After a lot more hours the situation is improving. woo hoo. but I did make the worst tactical blunder ever just today.

I was on my way to brutiicity Tarantula[sic] and got attacked by an army of equites, dogs and skirmishers. I had 3 RSC, 2IbI 3LibS half an elephant and a small unit of rhodian slingers. (map- coastal with roman villa)
What happened was that I routed 4 equites very easily but as I went back up the hill to flank the rest I got into a fight with one unit of equites and was myself flanked by dogs and other equites. The RSC routed immediately and then my slingers got massacred. as for the infantry - pah they couldn't hold a meeting! I tried to be smart and use the villa to protect one flank and slow any cavalry charge but that didn't work so well and I ended up getting routed all over the gaff.

I've never seen such a promising start turn so badly so quickly.
what is the story with libyan spears, they fight so badly and get killed really easily - I can't believe that they're higher up the tech tree than Iberians(I love them)

-side note, I also saw a 25 man unit of Spanish Gen HCav routed by balearic slingers(2 bronze chevrons) in melee combat.cool or what.

Things definately looking bright. my beatiful navy has now twice sank scipii ships containing top generals and a half stack O' troops. arr matey!