Carthage

[tibilicus]

Half way through my guide now people but bigest bits yet to come. For unit guide im doing details such as formation what your ARMYS SHOULD BE MADE UP OF E.C.T
So the post may be broken down in to 3 bits.

[Craterus]

Ok, sounds organised.. I like to experiment with formations so I'd like to see if we have the same sort of ideas..

[tibilicus]

Oh the irony i just saved over my amazing Carthage campaign with my Sythia one noooooooooooooooo!

[Craterus]

Uh-oh.. silly silly tibilicus ..

[ywingpilot]

I didn't find carthage so hard, just to build a good navy, small number of infantry but lots of calavry, The only thing I found hard with carthage was sieging because of a calavry based army.

[Craterus]

I prefer to wait sieges out anyway.. waste of men otherwise..

[cunobelinus]

yer but u need to assault some times wen u need the men some were else!! like we have found before craterus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bhruic]

I didn't find carthage so hard, just to build a good navy, small number of infantry but lots of calavry, The only thing I found hard with carthage was sieging because of a calavry based army.

Sieging hard as Carthage? You must not be building elephants then. Drag a unit of elephants around, and they'll batter down anything less than stone walls (which aren't terribly common).

For stone walls, it's easy enough to just hire a merc unit to sap - pour your cav through a hole in the wall, and you can rout pretty much anything other than massed phalanx troops.

Although if you really want to, you can build the mobile siege equipment. I rarely bother, as they slow down the all-cav armies too much.

Bh

[Craterus]

yer but u need to assault some times wen u need the men some were else!! like we have found before craterus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hence, I said prefer, I would PREFER to wait sieges out but sometimes you have to assault and get your army somewhere else to fend off an attack.

Don't stone walls pour hot oil on elephants and that kills them?

[katank]

Sap my man. Stone walls are quite rare. BTW, elephants through stone gates is a bad idea. They are claustrophobic and often panic once inside the gates, even if the gate is destroyed.

For all wooden walls, ram em down with even basic eles and charge through. For stone walls, use some merc infantry or iberians (one thing the iberians can do other than rout is sap). Then, charge through the gap with eles followed by heavy cav then light cav.

You can clear a way to the square real fast with a flood of eles and cav following. Remember to always charge through the enemy unit.

[tibilicus]

Sorry about no update resently have been very busy will try to update soon.

[The Apostate]

Playing my first campaign as Carthage in 1.2 VH/VH and it is very challenging/ satisfying.

Have reached 187 BC and conquered most of Italy (there's only the Julii left), all of North Africa bar Egypt (I did hold Alexandria briefly but lost it to a combination of rioting citizens and endless full stack Egyptian armies) and have held on to Cordoba and am beginning the conquest of Spain.

However the game looks as if it will stay challenging for a while as there are big Scythian, Greek and Egyptian empires to deal with after the Julii and Spanish.

I would say key is building up your economy as soon as possible and relying on bribery and mercenaries rather than building up your own troops (who are all crap until you can afford Army Barracks, Royal Stables and Awesome Temples).

The Numidians and Spanish will generally ally at the start but attack you eventually - best way of dealing with them is to keep a big army in Cordoba - even if it's militia it will dissuade them from attacking for decades and diplomats to bribe them (while much more expensive than 1.1 bribery is still semi-feasible for same culture opponents).

The Numidians having allied still wanted to attack me but kept sending small captain-led armies which I would bribe over as soon as they crossed the frontier so the actual declaration of war didn't happen until the 250's or so.

Building two forts at the bridge west of Carthage and immediately north of it will also stop them besieging your capital although eventually they'll attack Thapsus.

The main campaign in Italy and Sicily requires every low trick of Punic cunning you can summon up.

I allied with the Greeks waited for the Scipii to besiege Syracuse and then stormed Messana. The Scipii then returned to be slaughtered under the walls of Messana and a couple of turns later the Greeks were silly enough to leave Syracuse ungarrisoned so I treacherously snatched it from them.

Taking the fight to the Italian Mainland was however much harder as except for your elephants (who seem much less effective in 1.2) your army is hugely outclassed unless you can ship over lots of mercenaries.

After several disastrous attempts to take Croton and Capua I found myself being attacked every couple of turns by little Roman armies that would land at Messana only to be slaughtered by my general there who rapidly built up so many command stars I lost count - and he survived the eruption of Etna.

Disagree with the big navy schol - you won't have the resources to fight the enemy fleets who will proliferate around your ports and most of mine were blockaded every other turn.

What you do need is two strong fleets (I am still using Biremes) to ferry mercenaries, elephants and family members around.

Biggest challenge was when the Egyptians besieged Lepcis Magna - which they always will eventually. The only troops that can face their archers and chariots are Sacred Band Hoplites who need to charge switching into phalanx just before contact - cavalry and even armoured elephants proved useless.

Taking the war to Egypt itself will at least keep them busy away from your heartlands but you can expect to lose several armies.

Other than Sacred Band and Elephants your only half-way decent unit are Poeni infantry which you can't even recruit until you have an Army Barracks. Libyphoenicians and Iberians should never be taken onto a battlefield.

The problem with Sacred Band is that you need an Awesome Temple of Baal to recruit them so they are a poor choice for conquering enemy territory as you won't be able to recruit them back up to strength in captured cities and wuill have to constantly ship in reinforcements - for this reason Poeni Infantry and Long Shield Cavalry are a better choice for expeditionary forces in the mid and later games as you're much more likely to capture buildings that can replace them.

I am currently experimenting with dropping the Elephants altogether as shipping the replacements from Africa is getting a pain and even the armoured ones are too vulnerable in 1.2 to be truly cost-effective.

[pezhetairoi]

Well, it's a good thing the elephants are vulnerable, what with everyone using them as god-mode weapons in 1.1... Egypt's arrows are nasty. Have you tried slingers against them? Do they work?

[bubbanator]

I have found Carthage to be quite possibly my favorite faction. I won't go into what to build and what settlements to take becuase that has already been answered about 400 times in this thread...

Anyways, get armored eles as soon as you can. Sacred band cavalry and infantry won't hurt either. Carthage is in need of some good units (and some great tactics) to stand against the Roman legions. I secured Carthage and Thapsus first, taking the settlements around them first so that the stupid numidians wouldn't drop a full stack on my capital. I soon built up an army of 8 iberian infantry, 2 ponei, 1 Sacred band infantry, 2 long sheild cavalry, and one armored elle group. I put them on a boat, sailed past sicily and landed right next to the city of Rome. I attacked the senate army outside. This had to be one of my favorite battles I have ever fought.

I knew i couldn't win just by charging the Roman lines. I set up my infantry like this:

-SB-P-P-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-

I had my eles and cavalry set behind and to the right of my Iberian infantry.

The Romans set up their army (mostly infantry) so that their princepes were lined up with my iberian infantry and their histati (sp) were lined up with my sacred band.

The battle began with the Romans marching straight towards my infantry line. The infantry began to fight. The princepes were slagutering my iberian infantry but my ponei and sacred band were beating the Roman Histati. I held my cavalry force where they were. The whold infantry line began to turn. My Iberian infantry being pushed back, the Romans being pushed back by my Sacred band and Ponei. Then I saw my opportunity. The line had been pushed so that my cavalry were alligned with the side of the Roman Pricepes on the left. I had my eles charge followed by my long sheilds. It was like something out of a movie. The Romans went flying as my eles pushed through the line. The Romans broke and routed. I chased down and killed every last one.

The heroic victory gave me easy access to the city of Rome. From there I continued to build up armies and systematicaly wipe out the other Romans. With the Romans totaly dead, I was free to move into Gaul, Spain, and Germany. I took the rest of Africa, allied with Egypt, took all of grece, all of Great Britian and won the game with the entire western 3/4 of the map under my control. It was a very intersting game without the Romans steamrolling everyone. The gauls and the britians took out most of germany which suprised me. In my game, I had no problem with money or family members. My family bred like rabbits and my treasury reached 7 million. It would have been higher but I was spending like crazy trying to keep my money level down. All in all, my Carthaginian game was very entertaining and interesting. Probably the most fun I have had in Rome Total War. It wasn't the hardest faction I have played with the Romans being gone, but it was very, very entertaining.

[pezhetairoi]

Not bad! It's rare that someone manages to rotate a line. That's very good planning... I assume you had intended to meet their principes with your iberians?

[Craterus]

Possibly, but remember

"To a good general, luck is important."

[tibilicus]

? (ohhhh one more post Craterus) Any way what are you talking about? lol

[katank]

It's very true. One may have command talent but sometimes a lucky break will ensure that things turn out exactly as you planned. After all, variables are many.

Sometimes the game CTDs and you need to refight a battle, it often turns out a little different.

BTW, I think it was a RTW quote or close to one anyhow.

[bubbanator]

Not bad! It's rare that someone manages to rotate a line. That's very good planning... I assume you had intended to meet their principes with your iberians?

Actualy, I had thought that the Senate ALL principes, I did plan on trying to rotate the line, but it did help that they had their principes matched with my iberians.

[Craterus]

It's very true. One may have command talent but sometimes a lucky break will ensure that things turn out exactly as you planned. After all, variables are many.

Sometimes the game CTDs and you need to refight a battle, it often turns out a little different.

BTW, I think it was a RTW quote or close to one anyhow.

Yeah, that qoute comes up from time to time when you start up the game. I can't remember who said it.

But my point was, that it was lucky that the Principes matched up against the Iberians, ensuring that your tactic could be executed in an easier manner.

[pezhetairoi]

That quote was Napoleon Bonaparte's. My idol... Good general at the beginning, crap general at the end.

[Craterus]

I don't think it was. They only have quotes from the time on there. I think it may have been Polybius?

[pezhetairoi]

Yeah, i realised... Saw it on a battle loading screen yesterday night, just can't recall who it was... Napoleon just rehashed this ancient quote, cos he said something like that too... Livy? Tacitus? they're also possible.

[Craterus]

I tried searching the qoute in Google, but it cuts out words "To a good general, luck is important" SO it came up with a lot of crap...

[ywingpilot]

As carthage is there a way to limit the number of enemies you fight. I an 50 years into the game (m/m) A have all of Italy, Sciliy. I am at war with Gaul, Spain, Bruti, Numida and my greek allies have back stabbed me. I tried early in the game to ally with both Gaul and Numdia but both refused. I am fed up of fighting. I mean Spain hasn't even sent out an army, just blockaded by ports for a short while. All my wars the AI started them. Is there anyway make the AI not always attack, would forts help?

[katank]

No point. War with the world is inevitable. The best way to end the wars and restore trade is by killing their faction.

I was at war with 7 factions about 2-3 years into my Carthy game. Then I cut it down to 3 quite fast by killing the Romans completely.

Forts would help block off land. However, there is always the sea. The AI will inevitably have a lone ship blockade your port. To not build any ports would be stupid and deprive yourself of much income.

[pezhetairoi]

I am fed up of fighting.

Er... at the risk of sounding sarcastic, which I certainly do not intend--why are you playing Rome Total *War* then? O_o

[johndc]

Dear carthaginian friends :),

I started my campaign in 1.0 version on VH / VH. After 18 years ( 252 BC ) I captured all Italy but Rome, Spain, Numibia except Siwa, Sicily, nearly all Gauls ( remain 2 provincies, one besieged ), Crete, Sparta, Larrisa ( Corint & Athens also besieged ) and Illyrian rebels provincies. The game was so easy that I attacked Macedons and Dacian because greek could not stay against me.

In my armies I use Balearic slingers, now in east - Rhodesian slingers and Cretan archers, a lot of cavalry - Round and Long shield, eles & war eles. I use infantry a very little - mostly mercs - and many of them are skirmishers, for example Illirian skirmishers.

I made a lot of problems to AI with load and save, because I don't have time to play long in a row. And I know that my eles are stronger than in 1.2 version, but still I think a 270 - 230 period isn't Early period. After 12 - 15 years you could build a strong empire. After 40 years you could have a full map :)

My path in start and early period :

First turns :
Sicily : I attacked Messana and move my ships and armies from Carthago to messana to invade southern italy.

Africa : I moved general from Carthago or Thapsus to Lepcis Magna , brought 2 mercs and captured rebel town in a 2nd turn. Next I move this army to Cyrene also rebel town - no much rich, because it's isolated but at least I save it from Numibians.

Spain : Army sent to Carthago Nova, captured and then attacked Osca.

Next turns :
Italy : I captured Capua first and then moved army against Tarrentum and Croton. Brutii send their army to east so it was easy work - eles destroyed gates and towns was ours in one turn.

Sicily : Greeks attacks me, but armies from africa & merc save me. Syracuse and all Sicily was mine.

Africa : Peace with Numibians. No advancement. 4 provincies.

Spain : Big spanish army moved against Corduba, but luckily stopped with my returning army. Then I captured Austurica and Scallabis. In turn when I finished spanish, gauls attacks me. In next turns I captured Numantia and move another army to Narbo Martius.

Final stage :
Italy : Move against Julii - sneak around SPQR army and capture their 2 towns. Begin war with gauls in italy too. Captured Segesta & 2 gaul provincies.

Sardinia : AI bug - small Julii army landed near town, but they didn't attack. I smashed them later with army from carthago.

Africa : War with Numibia. I prepared 2 armies and captured Cirta and Dimidi in 2 turns.

Illyria : small army moved by ship to capture Salona and later Apollinia. Near Apollinia was ex-Brutii army - like rebels.

Spain : A few battles with gaul armies, which went to Numantia and ignored my Narbo Martius.

Economy
Best advice : Build and upgrade ports ASAP. Then roads and then what do you want :) Don't exterminate or enslave captured towns, when you can hold a public order. Your towns will grow fast and you could use benefits from it - next town level enables new buildings to reduce cultural difference, better units to recruit and more money from trade.

And that's all. It could be up to 15 years. This is my start & early period. With so many towns, there is no problem to advance in all directions. Maybe a strong and developed Egyptians or Seleucids will stop me, but I don't think so.

I really wait to play RTR 6.0 with a new ZoR+ because it's unreal to build nearly full West-Roman empire in 18 years.

[tibilicus]

Soory i hvnt been able to do my guide resently its just past my mined. Would anyone whos done a Carthage campaign care to help me? I can do the Line up of troops guide its just a diplomacy guide i will need. Hope someone can help.

[katank]

tibilicus, what do you mean by line up of troops guide and diplomacy guide? I can certainly help though.