Carthage

[Poulp']

Merlinus :

Concerning Sicily and Sardinia, I adopt the same strategy, unless the Scipii decide they want Lilybaeum instead of Syracuse...

since Numidia has the same culture than Carthage, I tend to let them develop their cities (for my profit) and in the meantime, I try to secure trading rights with them. In the early game, their cities are too low populated to worth the trouble; I just keep a spy to check how things are going in my backyard while I'm busy on the Sicilian front.

I play VBM in which Carthage begins with Carthago Nova and I try to secure my Iberian holdings and slowly annex the whole peninsula.
I try to ally with Spain and let them take Numantia from the Gauls, then I wait for them to break the alliance and strike back.

If can afford it, I sent a small task force with a family member to Cyrene and then Crete.
The main reason is to take for myself the recruiting of cretan archers, it also gives me a good naval network to trade with GCS, Macedon or Seleucids.

[MerlinusCDXX]

Merlinus :

Concerning Sicily and Sardinia, I adopt the same strategy, unless the Scipii decide they want Lilybaeum instead of Syracuse...

since Numidia has the same culture than Carthage, I tend to let them develop their cities (for my profit) and in the meantime, I try to secure trading rights with them. In the early game, their cities are too low populated to worth the trouble; I just keep a spy to check how things are going in my backyard while I'm busy on the Sicilian front.

I play VBM in which Carthage begins with Carthago Nova and I try to secure my Iberian holdings and slowly annex the whole peninsula.
I try to ally with Spain and let them take Numantia from the Gauls, then I wait for them to break the alliance and strike back.

If can afford it, I sent a small task force with a family member to Cyrene and then Crete.
The main reason is to take for myself the recruiting of cretan archers, it also gives me a good naval network to trade with GCS, Macedon or Seleucids.

in response to Numidia, in the campaigns i've played they never seem to develop on their own, they usually get taken out by the Egyptians , Spanish , or the Scipii. It really doesn't take too much of my resource base to take them out, and whuppin' them back into the stone age, besides being perversely satisfying, is good training for a general that will be going to fight against tougher opponents sooner than later. (i'm gonna need a tough general when the Egyptians come to call, which they will, as soon as they settle the East.

[Zasz1234]

Just on fighting the senate army: When I attacked Rome the Senate army was away in the north helping the Julii fend off the Gauls. So I practically walked into Rome (it only had a general unit and some token inf and wardogs) and then the Senate army turned into a massive army of bada$$ rebels for the Julii to deal with. It was quite satisfying to see the former Senate eating up large numbers of green julii while I move about southern Italy without interferance from the north.

[rvg]

A few of my own observations about the Carthage campaign...

1. IMHO it is not worthwhile to go after rebel towns in North Africa...They start out small and poor, and need to be guarded and developed.

2. Sicily and Spain are the two most logical choices to expand into both because Carthage already has some presence in both, AND because both areas are VERY easy to defend once secured. The sea in Sicily's case and the Pyrinees in case of Spain make excellent border areas.

3. Iberian Infantry is really good, and a steal for its price. Yes, they are fodder, but they are good at it. In fact, I never bother building any barracks buildings past the one that unlocks the Iberians, since the temple enables Sacred Band (which is head and shoulders above anything the comes out of the Carthaginian barracks). Sacred Band is great with Elephants guarding its flanks.

4. Slingers are okay. They will draw archer fire away from the more important units, and given some numeric superiority will kill non-elite archers with little trouble. Also great against the various barbarian factions, but near useless when confronting the Romans.

5. It's been mentioned before, but is always worth repeating: sea trade is of paramount importance, Carthage is dead without it. Thus, keeping a sizable navy from the get-go is important.

6. Elephants. Carthage's one trump card. Build them, use them, love them. Elephants in barbarian lands == very speedy conquest.

7. If things go well, there are only two factions likely to match Carthage in power: Brutii and Egypt. Armored Elephants will help alot against them.

8. Carthaginian Cavalry is much stronger than it looks on paper, because it gets to operate in conjunction with elephants. Come to think of it, everything is much stronger when used in conjuction with elephants.

9. Did I mention Elephants?

[Cpt_oo7]

On behalf of my first post, I would like to than The Org for this place being free and for advice for all the factions i've ever tried being.

Now, Carthage has always been my favortie, because of hannibal of course. So on my 5th campaign Carthage is unlockable for me. I go to start it imedeitly.

The first thing I did was abandon BOTH Caralitas(sp) And Lilybaum, to turn my attetion to Numida. I have heard they are just hit and run with there javelins, so I decided to make the move to conquer them. Before that I arranged a alliance with spain because I knew they would be a pain always attacking Palma And The one you start off with in spain.

The next thing I did was begin to conquer Numida's cost, which took about 6 turns. Then I continued to hassle Numida, until all they had left was Siwa, and they allied with egypt. With Numida And Spain far from my thoughts I turned my attetion to Silicy. I managed to conquer it in about 8 turns. After conquering Silicy I went to go capture Siwa and Kill off the Numidians for good, they haven't been makeing any threats to me at all though. It took about 7 turns to walk to Siwa and take it. For a long time In this period I had to deal with Riotings while trying to destroy the Scippi. At last I finally conquered Capua, which destroyed Scippi. Next thing I know I was being conquered by Egypt attacking Siwa. I managed to hold off 6 attacks because of my Sacred Band spearman. After they finally conquered Siwa I lost Capua due to it being poorly defended. After Egypt conquered Siwa they managed to get all my poorly defended settlements to Leptus-Mangana(sp). When Egpyt finally stoped attacking I managed to Capture Croton, then slowly the other bruitti start-with city. Then I managed to conquer Capua after dealing with the SPQR. Finally, I decided to kill off the SPQR, which took 6 turns to get rome, But I finally did it. Right now I have 17 citys, and it's 178 BC (Lol.). So I need help aganst egypt and finishing off julli's first states.

[rs2k2]

Hey, welcome to the Org!

One tactic that I use with Carthage is to build Libyan Spearmen (but why? Libyan spearmen suck!) and set them in defense mode because well... Libyan spearmen suck. However, they can hold a battleline quite well if you don't mind them not killing anything. Of course, if you can, by all means build Sacred Band and Poeni, but Libyan is fine for me. Bring around 4-6 Long Shield cav and maintain cavalry superiority. Thats the most important part. As long as your spearmen hold (remember, def mode!), hit the opposing infantry in the back and watch them rout.

[Zasz1234]

One unit I have really learned to love are the poeni infantry. At first I thought they were useless since cavalry are so good but at some point you need solid infantry. This is especially true when facing the barbarians who are just plain old phalanx fodder. I think Carthage's infantry are an underused section of their unit roster especially since they are much faster and cheaper to recruit than sacred band.

[RickFGS]

3. Iberian Infantry is really good, and a steal for its price. Yes, they are fodder, but they are good at it. In fact, I never bother building any barracks buildings past the one that unlocks the Iberians, since the temple enables Sacred Band (which is head and shoulders above anything the comes out of the Carthaginian barracks). Sacred Band is great with Elephants guarding its flanks.

I´m very interested in the unlock of sacred band beeing accomplished earliest possible on the game on Carthage and maybe one or two more cites.

From my playing, i tend to built the Greater Temple of Ball and wait for the Awesome Temple option to appear, but it only does when my city reaches 12.000 citizens and going to the final stage of city (metroplois right? that unlocks the best buildings around) and by then some 20 turns or more of the game have passed, plus i have to spent an increadable some of money to build the awesome temple and wait +7 turns... Only after 30ich turns and some 13500 denarii spent can i produce the first sacred band unit, and this only in Carthage, doing the same in other cities is more time consumption and money without proper armies to recrut meanwhile....

My question is: Can it be better in what turns (the less possible pls)? How can it be done? Can it be done to other cities faster?

I´m trying to imitate the Armoured Hoplite unlocking in turn 10 or so that can hapen for the Greeks in Athens or Spartan giving them an elite turn on the game start.

[Rotc_Railey15]

Thats what I did. I conquered all of Sicily and invaded Capua along with some of the Brutii cities. Destroy Scipii first. But I never finished the game cause I kinda fell into debt and after I was stupid enough to try and capture Rome (which I didnt, just lost a whole army...) My game turned against me.

I think I should start a new one again.

[Tozama]

Great thread!

Using some of the info. in this thread along with my own experience playing as Carthage the first few times I arrived at the following conclusions and strategy solutions:

Units:
Iberian infantry is barely more than overpriced town-watch level infantry.
The Pienoi (sp?) and Lybian versions are barely better but your line has to have something in it!
SacredBand makes passable line infantry but after playing as Rome you need to put the idea of powerful infantry lines out of your head now and as Carthage adopt a totally new battle style compared to playing with those invincible Roman walking walls.
One thing I realized after the above was the only passably decent infantry Carthage has cannot "Run" in battle. So you're left with either paper fodder Iberian that can run or better Phalanx types that cannot.
Why this matters comes later in this post. But suffice to say infantry based armies is not Carthages best focus.

Roundshield and Longshield Cavalry, both, when used correctly, (flanking or following up initial elephant line smashing) are reliable units when deployed in mass. Unlike my Roman armies, I found myself including 5-7 units of CAV in my stacks instead of the 2-4 I used to use playing as other factions.

Elephants are like putting an Abrams tank onto a Napoleonic battlefield!
The first level Elephant IMO is just a good supportive final knockout unit that makes a nice single unit addition to an army. I learned to not waste money and time building a large number of these. In my current game I built exactly ZERO first level Elephants but made good use of the one you start the game with. Carthage City’s first goal is to build all Cavalry upgrade buildings as soon as they are available.
War Elephants and Armored War Elephants are the mainline troops (that’s right, I said “mainline”) of my armies now and the centerpiece of my Carthaginian war machine. I use them like Panzer divisions!

It took me a few games to find the magic balance of elephant units per army vs. upkeep cost effects on my economy and to find the best way to deploy and use them on the field but once I did WOW!


War Elephant Mainline as a Strategy
Specifics of what to abandon, what to attack first and who to ignore are well covered in this thread so my grand strategy will lack some specific details already covered by others.

Start of game Goals and execution:

Goal #1 is to establish the best economy possible. Build a few diplomats and get trade agreements with every faction on the map. Ship one to Egypt via navy then march him north to trade with Selucids, Pontiac and every faction over there. The dude in Spain gets a quick alliance with Spain then trade agreements with Gaul then north to Germany, Briton, Dacia etc. The Diplo on Sicily gets Greek trade, then later an alliance then moves via navy to mainland to get trade with Macedon, Thrace and others nearby.

To achieve goal #1 you cannot be funding a three or four front war in the beginning of the game. Pick a target where you will focus your army and therefore your resources at and just hold the line elsewhere or abandon.
I chose to target the Romans as my primary enemy. That said, Numidia is so easy to defeat it doesn’t draw much army or money away to defeat so while awaiting populations to increase enough to allow better unit production I sent the starting army in Carthage + mercs from Palma west along the coast of Africa and tookout Cirta and Morocco for the income but left Numidia alone after that to act as a buffer against the Egyptians.
It’s all about easy money with low upkeep/defense costs at this point.

I abandoned Calais using the units there to garrison Carthage. Juli will pound it non-stop anyway and I’ll feel obligated to waste money on troops to defend it – diverting money and armies from the primary goal.
As for Corduba I learned from previous games that even if you hold it vs. Spain or Gaul it is next to impossible to keep the population happy as time goes on. I chose to adopt a pre-planned “use and abandon” strategy here. I kept it but built only a temple there. I built another peasant army anytime the happiness dropped below 110% - keeping just one step ahead of revolt that way. I managed to get an early alliance with Spain and they didn’t back-stab me early on. Enjoyed some cash flow from it while I could. Once I was unable to keep Corduba happy with peasant armies anymore I set taxes to VH, Demolished any destroyable buildings for the cash rebate and pulled the entire (mostly peasant) army out of it and loaded them onto waiting ships and taxied the army to Sicily. The Peasants became garrisons where needed on Sicily and the better troops joined my siege army there. It revolted to Rebels 2 turns later.

In Sicily you wait until the Scipi attack the Greeks and once you have ferried over a decent army you then take Messana and Syracuse from the Scipi. This leaves Scipi with only one city so they struggle to build up at all from here out.
The above is done to take money-making cities with as little effort and as little replenishment of army requirements as possible. All these things, although military objectives are involved, are ruled by Goal #1.

At this point I have good profit making cities and zero land borders with anyone’s invading armies.


Goal #2 is to produce a land army of 2 stacks that can stand up to the Roman army.
To achieve this, goal#1 must be accomplished and maintained so you can afford the build costs and high upkeep costs of a War Elephant army. Maintaining means not starting any new wars and keeping up on upgrading Markets and ports to increase income levels and not overbuilding units so as to keep upkeep costs down.

As soon as Carthage is able to produce War Elephants start churning them out. As soon as you can build the EliteCavalry stable in Carthage - it is a priority and switch to Armored War Elephant production when its completed.
I usually produce my SacredBand infantry in Thepsus at the same time so as to not interrupt War Elephant production in Carthage. Other cities will supply longshield Cavalry or roundshield at least.

While this is going on you will be defending Sicily from the Scipi’s sea-borne landings. They never sent a big stack at me so this just trained my generals really. I also built a passable navy and tried to intercept them with some success.

The Army makeup
Move your highest star general available (if he’s forgotten in Morocco or something get him to Carthage once War Elephant production is under way) to Carthage. Also move any extra family members that have combat bonus retinues to Carthage. With all the family having a reunion in Carthage transfer all combat retinues to your highest star general and all city management ones to another guy. You want an invasion army commander to be your “Hannibal”. So your best star guy has the longest list of bonus retinues now and at the same time you should have another general with max city governor bonuses in rturn. Put him in Carthage or wherever you want bigger income.

Place 6 War or Armored War Elephant units along with 6 Cavalry units under your best general in Carthage. The remaining slots fill with SacredBand Infantry and slingers if you like those. You may learn that in THIS army slinger won’t get much action, but tactics can vary.
So you have 7 Cav. units (including General’s bodyguard), 6 Big 18 beast Elephant units and a line of half-decent infantry.

Build a second stack as similar to the first one as possible but this is more of a followup, “reserves” stack so it can have less Elephants and maybe even some cheaper infantry if you can’t muster more sacredband right now, but don’t skimp on cavalry here. In my current game this 2nd army has 3 War Elephants, 8 Cav., 2 SacredBandInf. and some Iberian Infantry even. Put your second-best star general in this unit.

These two stacks are your starting Italian peninsula invasion force.
Have two multi ship fleets standing near Carthage (meaning 1 group of say 80 ships as one stack of ships and another of say 80 ships in another stack).
Ferry your troops to the west shoreline of Sicily then walk them to the East shoreline having the fleets meet them there again. This way there’s less chance of losing a VERY expensive army in a sea battle you don’t plan on.
Wait until the next turn when both your army and your navy have 100% move allowance available then load the ships and land south of Croton as close to it as possible yet try to unload in as few turns as possible. Attack any army standing outside near Croton with Army#1. Siege Croton with army #1 while army#2 is in the battle radius so if you are attacked from outside and or by sallying Croton garrison you can field everybody.
I usually starve out the enemy when laying siege to conserve manpower losses for the long, tough road ahead but if you decide to assault so be it. Just don’t lose any elephants and maintain low losses of cavalry. Use the unit swapping interface between army#1 and #2 to put army#1 at max. unit strength after battle. Any Cav. Under 18 men is not strong enough. Replace it with a full strength one etc. Same with elephants and infantry. Leave just enough of army#2 in Croton to keep it from rebelling and start building peasants to takeover garrison duties later. Plan is to keep leap-frogging army #2 forward right after army #1 takes a city by force and leave a peasant garrison for rear cities.
Once you have Croton you take the other green city just north the same way.
After this I sometimes have A Juli and or Bruti army approaching my army.
Keep in mind the next city on your list is the Scipi capital (and only city they own). But don’t leave and easy walkin to the 2 green cities you took. Defeat in the field any army that comes too close before you go for putting Scipi out of the game. After Scipi are gone and I catch up on garrison production enough to exit the cities I go after Rome itself the exact same way - defeat any outside army, then seige the city.


Above I listed map strategy and grand strategy for economy in order to build this War Elephant army. Now I will tell you how to use it tactically and you’ll see why I centered my grand strategy on financing it.

The Elephant Mainline Army in Battle
Having 6 units of giant beasts and a ton of Cav. with minimal infantry may seem risky but as Carthage its your ace. You have no archers and frankly slingers are ok but they count on a line of infantry that can hold. And Carthage just doesn’t have that kind of infantry.
On the field forget who attacked who and forget defensive lines with flanks and high-ground holding etc. Your army is the ancient equivalent to the armored division in WW2.
You ALWAYS attack. ALWAYS! PERIOD.
On deployment take your 6 War Elephants and make one long frontal straight line just like you probably do with infantry. This is your front line. Place them all the way to the front of deployment area. No rear sitting even if on defense. You will be rushing, not waiting and reacting. Group all your Cav. Into one big group deployed as 3 units wide and 2 units deep including your General in the rear row (not as the spearhead).
Place the Cav group right next to the Elephants. No, not behind them, BESIDE them. Elephants get less scared when "happy the flanks are protected" appears in your info.mouseover balloon.
So you have one very long line of elephants beside on line of Cav. Being 2 units deep.

Right behind the elephants, close enough to touch their tails, line your infantry in single wide frontal line like typical TW. Being phalanx types they will be slow and not keep up with your Elephant line but at least they’re as close to battle to start as possible. If you have slingers put them with your infantry wherever you like them.

When you press “start battle” Charge your elephants in one long line straight at their lines. Select a spot BEHIND the enemy line as the target area to run to. We want to run this ancient tank line over ALL his army without stopping to fight with weapons here. Do not give them extra time to react or regroup. FLY AT THEM!
Immediately order your infantry to exactly the same place as the elephants are running to – knowing they will arrive much much later. Lastly, order your Cav. Group to follow just behind the elephants. they should end up behind your elephants - VERY CLOSE behind them and in motion with them. They can run a lot faster so even if behind pace a bit and with elephants running they can catch up quickly.
Now PLOW into the enemy lines with these goals in mind immediately:
1. Hit them like a wide brick wall full broadside with War elephants. Do not narrow the focus. You want as many enemy formations disrupted as possible. Not just a few pummelled and a bunch standing ready to fight full strength here! If their line is wider than your elephant line hit them centered BUT split your CAV in half and send ½ left ½ right to pick up the rear corner flanks of the elephants. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT because it’s the only real weak spot on War Elephants!
2. Walk your War Elephants to the rear of his lines THROUGH the enemy units, without stopping, trouncing as many men as possible on your way to the rear most unit he has (usually his General).
3. While executing the above your cav come smashing into the confused pummeled enemy that the War Elephants just plowed through and mop up.

At this point what to do depends on the enemy’s reaction so far.
Often most of his army is running for their lives already. If its captain lead instead of Family member lead this is almost always the case. Chase down his men with cav and have War Elephants hit any large remaining groups. In this case your infantry may not even get into the fight at all. I had many battles in Italy against large good quality Roman armies where my infantry never got to battle before the Romans ran from the field.

Other times in the case of a large high quality enemy lead by a high-star family member the Romans stay and fight. GET YOUR ELEPHANTS OUT OF THE MIDDLE!
Never leave them struggling in a sea of enemy. They will get upset and go rampaging out of your control. If Romans stand and fight now – have your War Elephants fight their way backward from where they came from, toward your approaching infantry line. It should be getting close. Let the War Elephants rest out of the melee of hand-to-hand combat while your Cav. Clashes and your infantry hits the tatters of the enemy line.
Elephants don’t often die against enemy combatants. They just get tired then upset then rampage and kill your own men or run off the field. Once they rest a bit You can flank with them now or rush them in again wherever your infantry are having problems.

More often than not most of the enemy has run away and what’s left fighting is severely beaten up and your Cav. + infantry can clean up on their own.

I have done this repeatedly. And against good quality armies with Principles etc. and 7 star generals. It has never failed yet.

Also keep in mind numerically this War Elephant Army of yours lacks numbers. War Elephants are only 18 beasts. So when the pre-battle screen opens it looks scary to see “Juli army one = 567 men, Juli army two = 622 men. Carthage army = 423 men”
Don’t worry. You will win. But don’t ever auto-calc a battle. The AI undervalues War Elephants in the strength bar by a mile and you’ll lose way more men than you should even if you win. You can easily beat them even at 1:4 odds by rushing the army that's closest to you, routing it, then regroup and hit the 2nd enemy reserves as they come over to you.



This army is bookoo expensive on upkeep costs. Right click on a War Elephant in the build que once and try not to choke! Imagine 9 of them now! Previously I tried to build and use it without employing a more focused Grand strategy and economy and while my army couldn’t be beaten on the field I actually had a net loss of $5500 per turn and quickly had a treasury of –69,000. I couldn’t build any temples or upgrade or build even peasants for garrisons. My economy came to halt and that stopped my city conquests of course.
Even previously conquered cities went revolt because I couldn’t upgrade temples etc. to keep them happy.
So plan ahead.

[Rotc_Railey15]

Good observation. Elephant are any armies most dealiest weapon, especially in sieges. I finished beating the Egyptians today as the Seleciuds and my War elephants wreaked havoc on their infantry when we torn down their walls.

When I went to war with Numidia in my Carthage game, I always put my elephants up front followed by my Lybian infantry close behind charging into a disorganized enemy line.

But one more thing. Dont let Elephants take over the battle field too much. When they get stressed, they KILL EVERYTHING. I once lost a lot of infantry to rampaging elephants on my side! So dont let them stray to far and dont use them as much, but only when nessessary.

[RickFGS]

SacredBand makes passable line infantry but after playing as Rome you need to put the idea of powerful infantry lines out of your head now and as Carthage adopt a totally new battle style compared to playing with those invincible Roman walking walls.
One thing I realized after the above was the only passably decent infantry Carthage has cannot "Run" in battle. So you're left with either paper fodder Iberian that can run or better Phalanx types that cannot.
Why this matters comes later in this post. But suffice to say infantry based armies is not Carthages best focus.

Wrong. Carthage´s infantry is quite good being the sacred band the 2nd best phalanx infantry in the game, only spartans can beat them.

Phalanx can run and move as any other unit, you just have to have a different atitude, set phalannx mode off, use right mouse button to where you want and how you want them there and press "R" to run to make them move quicker. Elite phalanxes like sacred bands and spartans have an enourmous endurance, they can run the entire field and still give an hell of a fight.

As for elephants, you dont need more then 3 or 4 war/armd ones, more then thats is just waste of money.

Never use them on the early stages of the battle, of course against the AI, you can do that beacuse he is dumb, but vs an human player that tactict is just suicidal.

Sacred Bands jshould be rushed forword in a "r" and pre-built formation so that it setups in 3 secs in the face of the enemy, pinning them down and absorbing their missiles, pilums and shock wave troops, dont worry they will not riot, these guys can hold anything.

Get your cavs 6 or 8 on the flanks ready to support them and when the enemy is pinned down just rush in your elephants and kil them all, encircle with cav and its Canae all over again.

My fav setup is: 1 general, 6 Sacred Band Cavaly, 6 Sacred Band Infantry, 3 Armored Eles, 2 Balearic Slingers, 2 Onagers - this allows you flexibility to deal with many type of armies not just romans.

[paul_kiss]

Great guide, Tozama! I'm playing for Carthage now, and I'll certainly take your advice into account.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Great guide, Tozama! I'm playing for Carthage now, and I'll certainly take your advice into account.

Elephants are useful, and can make the Cartha's viable against anybody -- but be careful against quality archers. Carthage faces Rome, Numidia, Spain, Gaul, and sometimes Greece early. Only Greece fields archers so your elephants can romp. Later, against developed Gauls, Germans, post-marian Rome, and Egypt you'll need to be able to play with lots of fire arrows (requires a bit more care in use).

[Greacia_Roma]

My fav tactic with carthage is simple. First of all if you'll agree carthage is a hard faction to play as yes? NO. Carthage is like rome the only difference is your in africa leave every single province outsid of africa to the dogs give them as gifts or whaterver. Destroy every building and disband all troops outside africa. After get rid of all ties with europe and concentrate on africa and asia minor. Then pick one good general and conquer all of africa(yes including egypt) after conquer all of asia minor then set your sights for europe. May i just add, i see carthagian armys much like alexander the greats armies the main force should be poeni infintry or sacred band use iberian infintry to guard the flanks and use cvalry to attack and win the battle. Elephants for carthage count as cavalry.

[Rotc_Railey15]

I started a new one again. Im doing pretty well and after 10 turns conquered Sicily!

Its real simple. Make friends instead of enemies. I allied with the Greek cities, Spain, Gaul, and Numidia. The Scipii attacked Syracuse while they left Messina vulnerable. I captured messina. Then built up an army and attacked Syracuse while they were away trying to capture Lilybauem! They lost at lilybaeum and I captured Syracuse killing their faction heir! Sicily is mine.

The Greeks, Spanish, and Numidians are still my allies. I broke alliance with Gaul cause Spain went to war with them. Ive also noticed that the Gauls are losing very quickly in the game and Spain doesent have a large army. SO once i build up forces in Spain, ill attack the spanish while they are losing troops trying to defeat Gaul!

[Rotc_Railey15]

Ok ill admit Carthage is hard. The Roman navy is a harrassment, I was stupid and went to war w/Spain too soon. I failed to capture Carthago Nova and now have the Spanish navy and army to worry about.

[RexCroatorum]

I allways loved Carthage because they are so fierless, my tactic is to play with iberians, good cavaLERY and ELEPHANTS. On map I succeded to conquer Sicily and West Africa, defend Caralis and Spain, just now i am at the siege of Capua, I would Exterminate them and sell all buildings and ofcourse-abandon it.

[Rotc_Railey15]

I cant stand Iberian infantry! (unless my enemy is using them.) They are just militia w/ a little bit more armor! Libyan infantry is very good. I found them to be helpful and I hope to recruit some in Spain soon.

Lucky for me, I didnt save my game so I never went to war w/Spain! So ill just keep a friendly alliance, continue trade, and until I have secured the Mediterreanean from the Romans, I invade Spain. (Ill probably let them drive the Gauls out of Numantia first though!)

[RickFGS]

Use Iberian Infantry on the flanks like they are cavalry, chase down their archers, skirmishers, slingers, peltasts, Always take a general along with the army.

They are half the price of Hastati of recruit (-6 on defense) and same cost to maintain, but without the pilum, making them faster...this unit can be used in many fun ways on the begginning campaign, use your town militia to hold the center, these guys will be on their best on the flanks or as a fresh reserve force sent in after the enemy is a bit tired.

They can be trained in all cities after a barracks improvement for 240 gold, if a 3/7 militia costs you 150 and as poor morale, then for +90 gold you get (+6/+1) plus average morale, making it the only unit in the game that for this price gives you an normal morale and an attack of 7.

Use legions of iberians against rebels on the map and boost their experience level, upgrade blacksmiths and put in a general to lower recruitments costs in the city you´ll be pumping a 10/11 or stronger iberian inf every turn for 190 or 180 gold.

The only cost-comparable ones are phalanx units like:

Milita Hoplite is 10 gold cheaper to buy and 70 gold cheaper to maintain, also has phalanx, but comes with poor morale and an attack of 5.
Nubian Spearman is kinda like the milita hoplite exxept they get bonus in desert.

[gardibolt]

An elephant-heavy army will have serious trouble with a Gallic stack full of forester warbands; they'll be rampaging before they ever get to the Gallic lines (i.e., on top of your men). So the tactics would have to change substantially for them. But against the Romans, this looks like a great use of the eles.

Carthage is all about control of the seas. Do that, and you'll have little trouble mopping up the Romans. But you have so many diverse colonies that are separated by water that if you don't control the seas your economony will suffer and you won't be able to hold your territories.

[Rotc_Railey15]

Very true w/ the Navy. Carthage has to have a strong navy in order to defeat the Romans. The romans have transported entire armies over sea to defeat me. But have lost those entire armies to my naval forces. (Sunk the generals and familymemebers too!) My Carthage game is doing a little better and now I can concentrate on conquering the Numidian lands.

[Vitellus]

Just finished a short campaign as Carthage.

Well, to begin with, I have no idea how to use elephants. I try to charge them through enemy lines to disrupt them, but they end up panicking halfway there and dying horribly or fleeing.

The tactic I found was simple: Massed numbers of round-shield (and later Longshield) cavalry, in wedge formation. A small line of infantry supports these masses (at least 5 units, preferably as many as I can afford), which are formed into one massive "fist." This is then hurled at each enemy unit in turn. The wedge formation breaks up the enemy groups just as well as the elephants would have, so that the successive wave of cavalry (I typically have them in two lines) pours into the gaps and kills even more. The combination of numbers, cavalry, flanking, and casualties routes almost any unit within seconds.

With this great "fist" I easily defeated the barbarian armies in Spain. Sieges were difficult, but accomplished by destroying most of he enemy forces near the walls (whereI could still flank them), and swamping the remainder at the town center. Heavy casaulties in the cavalry, but they can be retrained with a simple Stable.

In Sicily, I struck quickly across the island at Messina. My faction leader died on the second turn (ouch), but with the hlep of elephants I snatched the city from under the Scipii's noses (they were south, besieging Syracuse). My army quickly swung south and crushed them between me and the Greeks, my allies. I went ahead and betrayed the Greeks, taking Syracuse from their weakened army, and secured a ceasefire and trade rights immediately afterwards from their diplomat.

After about five years, I had built up enough of an army to venture into the peninsula itself. With full-stack armies buzzing about everywhere, hwoever, I did not intend this to be an occupation - I was still fighting Spain and Numidia (which, incidentally, crumples like paper before the cavalry fist tactic), so I landed one turn south of Vesuvius. The very next turn I marched on Capua, took it, exterminated the populace, razed the city, and escaped to my waiting fleet. I fell back to Sicily, retrained and re-equipped, and went back out, this time destroying both Croton and Tarentum, isolating the Brutii in Epirus against some very irate Greeks.

The south of the peninsula cleared of Roman influence, I at last trained two full stacks (aided by the return of my Numidian task force, which had left them with only Siwa to keep those Eggies back), and threw them at Rome itself. One fierce battle later, the city was mine, and the southern rebel cities were quickly resecured for Carthage. At the same time, Osca fell, giving me all of Iberia, and that army prepared to fight the Julii in Gaul. I quit the campaign there, since my great nemesis, Rome, was destroyed. I might pick it up again later, to fight the powers in the Eastern Mediterreanean.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Welcome!

Well, to begin with, I have no idea how to use elephants. I try to charge them through enemy lines to disrupt them, but they end up panicking halfway there and dying horribly or fleeing.

They're great for battering in wooden barbarian gates so that you don't have to wait for a siege, but they are surprisingly fragile in combat. Generally, I don't use them for line-breaking (for the reasons you cite). I do use them to counter-charge flanking enemy cavalry and they can do a great "short-hook" flanking move against troops attacking your battle line. NEVER send them in unsupported by cavalry. They're great at knocking holes open but kill surprisingly few. Still, with a hole open, you're well aware of what a cav swarm does if it isn't hitting a solid fronted unit.....

The tactic I found was simple: Massed numbers of round-shield (and later Longshield) cavalry, in wedge formation. A small line of infantry supports these masses (at least 5 units, preferably as many as I can afford), which are formed into one massive "fist." This is then hurled at each enemy unit in turn. The wedge formation breaks up the enemy groups just as well as the elephants would have, so that the successive wave of cavalry (I typically have them in two lines) pours into the gaps and kills even more. The combination of numbers, cavalry, flanking, and casualties routes almost any unit within seconds.

A good tactic to use with most of the horse-centered armies. Works well with Spain, Numidia & Scythia as well (and would work for Seluks, Eggies, and all of the Eastern factions too, though their forces give them other options). Its an RTW classic approach that takes full advantage of the jacked up cavalry ability.

In Sicily, I struck quickly across the island at Messina. My faction leader died on the second turn (ouch), but with the hlep of elephants I snatched the city from under the Scipii's noses (they were south, besieging Syracuse). My army quickly swung south and crushed them between me and the Greeks, my allies. I went ahead and betrayed the Greeks, taking Syracuse from their weakened army, and secured a ceasefire and trade rights immediately afterwards from their diplomat.

After about five years, I had built up enough of an army to venture into the peninsula itself. With full-stack armies buzzing about everywhere, hwoever, I did not intend this to be an occupation - I was still fighting Spain and Numidia (which, incidentally, crumples like paper before the cavalry fist tactic), so I landed one turn south of Vesuvius. The very next turn I marched on Capua, took it, exterminated the populace, razed the city, and escaped to my waiting fleet. I fell back to Sicily, retrained and re-equipped, and went back out, this time destroying both Croton and Tarentum, isolating the Brutii in Epirus against some very irate Greeks.

The south of the peninsula cleared of Roman influence, I at last trained two full stacks (aided by the return of my Numidian task force, which had left them with only Siwa to keep those Eggies back), and threw them at Rome itself. One fierce battle later, the city was mine, and the southern rebel cities were quickly resecured for Carthage. At the same time, Osca fell, giving me all of Iberia, and that army prepared to fight the Julii in Gaul. I quit the campaign there, since my great nemesis, Rome, was destroyed. I might pick it up again later, to fight the powers in the Eastern Mediterreanean.

Very sound strategically -- probably the classic format for Carthage (and with good reason).

[ixidor]

Wrong. Carthage´s infantry is quite good being the sacred band the 2nd best phalanx infantry in the game, only spartans can beat them.

Co-signed. To tell the true most of my temples are Baal temples, especially from cities who are far from carthage, since the extra 20% law bonus compared to the other gods' temples is VERY useful, not only make it easier to hold far away provinces, as it helps a lot in cash because it greatly reduce corruption (a curse for big empires). And of course, allows to train the great sacred band.

Now, my contribution to this thread:

- don't attack Numidia, take the strongest foes (which basicly means roman factions) first. They are weak, have no cultural penalty and in case you haven't notice they can be used as a shield against Egipt while you have other things to do.
- don't give up on Corduba. His gardisson is big enough and the city is very profitable. Building some Baal temples helps a lot in keeping public order. So, what to do? With some slavement and with his huge grow rate, you will quicly have a big city who needs no support from your empire. If you have the patience to wait, soon, very soon, you will start building stables and barracks. Then you can take the Peninsula as Hannibal did, starting wih New Carthage (the name says it all :)). Just don't make the mistake to start expanding while the city is not very developed yet and not selfreliable in troops and money. Ah, and the army in the city is more then enough to beat anything around in open field. You can conquer all the Iberia and attack the Numidians only using cavalry from corduba and balear slingers from Palma.
- don't give up on Caralis. If you let Julii take it you will have to worry about Palma, as your trade in Sicily and Carthage himself. The city is not difficult to defend. Just build at least the first walk level (to prevent 1 turn take over), and put some town militia. I also put some rounded shiled cavalry and the skirmishers from Lilybaeum. This city is strategically important to keep, holding it is half the way to dominate the western roman waters. Also, ships close to the island are a nice away to defended it, i usually try to use both strategies
-don't take Syracuse from the Greeks, take it from Scipii instead. Why?
1) you can effectively forge an alliance with the greek cities for money and stability while you fight other more important foes
2) usually Scipii attacks Syracuse all out, leting Messena unprotected. Just bash the doors with the elephants and kill the general there
3) the fact that the romans attacked Syracuse will reduced their numbers quite a bit. This will help you when you fight them later (later, i mean, in the next turn )

Then, well, try to get them in open field, they should be easy to take. I started a new campaign with them and i was unlucky because the scipii put ALL their troops, even the ones from italy, in Syracuse, before my navy could get them. No problem, what did i did? Attacked them in open field, and even better, they came out devided in 2 armies (1 inside the city, other outside). See the results for yourself:

My rounded shield cavalry fought good today

Then Syracuse (and Sicily) is mine. Notice how a wise use from the elephants made me came out of 2 battles with the unit still undamaged. This unit is gold for you in the begining so treat it well.

Some last tips: the cavalry is the key to sucess. Don't even expect your infantry to beat the roman or the barbarian's one, just use them as a bait. The iberian infantry are good as cannon fodder since they have a decent moral, so they will not run at the first contact. Also, elephants are AWESOME when used with other cavalry. If you charge with them and more cavalry units the destruction and the moral decrease will be just HUGE. Just don't let them stay still in the middle of the battle, they need to be on the move all the time, after the charge make them run for the rear of the enemy and you will be able to bring most (or all) your elephants back home while creating panic and disorder, which combined with a heavy cavalry charge means massive damage. Just don't overuse the elephants, both in battle or in the number of them, i think 4 elephant units is the maximum i advice per army, which is more then enough to destroy an army if you use a good planned charge. Also, use Sacred Band for sieges, they are very good at it (defending or attacking).

Ah, and mostly, have fun changing the result of the Punic Wars :)

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Rome first is the classic response of course.

Well managed battles and judicious elephanting can win you Sicily, as you demonstrate.

Defending Caralis, though difficult at first, is well worth it. The right garrison can sally and bleed the Julii and effectively cripple their expansion.

Once you've got your armies up-tech a bit, sedn the elephants to Carthage and replace them with better ones. Crossing into Italy and taking the Scips out and the Brute's home from them isn't too difficult with Long Shields and War Elephants et al. and is quite profitable. Keep on pushing up the boot to the Padus. A couple of judiciously placed forts later and you've got Gaul on the wrong end of a Bridge battle. Peferect defense point

The old elephant unit that you took out of Sicily has be up armored and shipped to Spain. Nothing is as fun as Elephants going after Barbarians. No long spears and few pila to deter you. The Spaniards don't even field many archers and the Gauls don't until after the reforms. Good terrain for an elephant and the right support. Let Gaul bleed on your northern Italian border while you take out Spain and Gaul from behind. Play Germany and Britain into repeated wars if you can.

Defend Africa at Cyrene. Once you have it Egypt will come and try to take it. Repeatedly. Regardless of the number of deaths you inflict.

[ixidor]

Yeah, I agree with most you say, even though my approach was a bit diferent. 2 or 3 turns after i took syracuse i went fighting in Italy, with only that unit from elephants and some more rounded shield cavalry. Call me crazy but with Carthage i like to fight romans in inferiority, much like Hannibal. Also, i thought it would be the best strategy to hit Scipii now that they were weaken. It was very fun to do this actually, i beat the Sipio twice (they had 500 men, i had 500 men, so, as you see, not a very fair contest ), first in open field (half of the army) and then the other half in the siege (which made me lose 200 men ), beat a 1100 senate army from hastati, principes, velites and 5 (!!!) generals with roughly 700 (i brought some extra cavalry from Carthage and Sicily since mine was greatly reduced and trained extra iberian infantry in Capus since i knew i need more of these to hold the lines) and after the total destruction of this army I sieged Rome. Ah, by the way, the trick is letting an army strong enough to beat the army inside the city but weak enough to make the computer giving the advantage to the enemy. This make the rest of the senate's army came out in the next turn, which was good since i beat the crap of them and took Rome. About the elephants in Iberia, usually my men on there only get help MUCH later after they started to conquer it. In fact, is most likely i get elephants from Tingi then by sending them from Carthage. But this is also personal, i like the the idea from a single town like corduba, with no external help from my empire, to dominate 1 faction as the Spanish and kick the crap of the gauls out of there. Yet, i completly agree that elephants againt barbarian tribes are incredibly devastating.

[Ozzman1O1]

when you guys wage war on spain,you better get alot of skirmishers to cut them down when they attack corduba,trust me,golden strategy,the grass will be littered with bull warroirs!!!

[minisam]

Hi all i am new to this site but have been playing rtw for about 1 year now and have found a good strat to get a very good start to the carthage campaign.

i started by handing over Sicily to the scipii and let greece and scipii fight that out with themselves while they struggled to gain power there i focused my interest in west Africa and set out to destroy anyone that stood in my way, all the while recruiting mercs to do the dirty work, in that time i got trade rights with all of rome and Egypt and an alliance with spain. this help as they valued this along with trade rights and didnt attack me there. i had very little resistance from and numada. once i had taken most of their citys and controlled all of west africa i set out to build up my fleets and troops, once i had 3 fully strong armys i marched one onto sicily and 2 into spain taking all provences in spain i did the same rested for about 4 turns and again went after gaul then the brits and germany finaly going in italy and walking all over the senate. once i did that i had enough money to bribe and rebels and rebel towns and a fair few armys.

i did this on the VH/M setting my next task is to try the same strat as the gaul.

Regards

[Ozzman1O1]

the first key to carthage is sicily,wich i conqure in about 6 turns,and if your a beginner and dont want to have spain at war,the numidians in the south is always a good idea.but ive never had trouble with a spanish navy?