Germania

[katank]

True, the widescale coordination of strikes makes the humans overpowered. Maybe we should make random AI mistakes like having armies wander aimlessly to simulate German disunity?

[Mightypeon]

Well, in regards to Blitzing: its 14 turns into the game and my Thracians are siegeing Athens after having killed Macedon-.-
For fun you could try the "Völkerwanderung", take all you germans and go for rome.
It could be that you have to do some linehugging against the Senate but it is possible to conqeur rome something like 12 turns into the game.
Oh, and the rest of the world happens to be in deep XBOX because you can now pump out High End german units like nothing.

[Marquis of Roland]

Man, I should have read this guide crap before I started Germans......

These guys are the poorest bastards I've yet to play (I haven't played Parthians but even if they start out poor there's a bunch of rich Seleucid provinces ripe for the taking). I've been trying to play this faction historically and so I left the Gauls and the brits alive, and so they still have all their richer provinces.

Plus these guys have the slowest growing provinces EVER. Compiled on top of this I built way too many units in the beginning so I ended up having to put most of my cities on growth build policy which made my money situation even worse. Its 234 or something and I barely just got a city into minor city category. I captured all bordering rebel provinces though, but it seems like they're just sucking more of what little money I have.

Spear warband was a pleasant surprise, their battle performance is pretty good. Definitely arguably the best in the first tier. Axemen are superior to Gallic swordsmen one on one and can take out hastati relatively easily as well. One thing I don't like about Chosen axemen is that they take too many casualties; the only way I will let them in my army is if they had considerable armor upgrades otherwise their survivability is too low. Therefore I plan to use night raiders as my main battle line. Judging from the stats of Gothic cav, they're even better than companions and cataphracts, if I remember the stats correctly (gothic got 17 attack and 23 defense I believe, cataphracts have similar defense but only 7 attack, companions have comparable attack but only like 15 defense or something), putting them as the best cav in the game??

Yeah, I probably should have rushed Rome, or at least Alesia, Patavium, and/or Mediolanum. This money situation is getting out of control. Capturing Samarabrovia from the brits helped out a little, but I need more, I can only afford 1 field army at a time and I have 3 borders to defend.....

Whoever said the Brits were backstabbing bastards was right. They betrayed my alliance three times and I even offered them peace after their armies were completely destroyed. I've had it with these blue people, I am going to invade and exterminate.

Gauls must be wiped out ASAP too; I didn't realize they made enough money to send 1 1/2 full flag armies at you every turn.....quite tired of fighting these weaklings....need those damn Romans to get Marius reforms so I can start fighting legionaires....

[katank]

Chosen axes are invaluable against legionnaires. They can even take urbans provided you time warcry properly.

Gothics will probably lose to catas in a straight fight due to armour piercing secondary of the catas.

[Marquis of Roland]

Yeah, I'm going to use the Chosen axes for flanks and night raiders for the main line. I'm just not gonna let the chosens get into the army unless they put a shirt on (preferably a mail shirt, i.e. need armor upgrade!). 6 night raiders, 4 chosen axes, 4 chosen archers, 4 gothic cav, and some berserkers plus general should make a fun army to play with.....

[katank]

Yeah. They need armor badly.

Try fighting in woods more and then they should be less afraid of missiles.

[Mightypeon]

The good thing about germans is that their Tier 1 stays usefull in the late game.
The valour 3 Spearman can contend with most high end phalanxes (well, Spartans are better, but your Spears will hold up their Spartan longer than their remaining force will hold up you remaining germans).
In addition, they can beat most Phalanxes when flanking them in straight mellee.
The reason seems to be that their propably is an additional malus when having phalanx activated while melleeing.
My lategame Germans look like this:
4-6 pupmped Spears
4x chosen Axes
4x Chosen Archers
Lots of varios cavalry.
Some puppys (Speed and Morale wins battles, not neccesarly stats)

[Marquis of Roland]

doggies are the best charge stoppers in the game (bar chariots and elephants of course). Anytime I see any kind of cav or infantry about to charge my flank, I send in the dogs and they cement the charging unit there and when my chosen axes get there its over.

[pezhetairoi]

I'm currently creating a mod where all missile units' missile attacks are doubled, and all units' armour is raised insanely high. Something like an SPQR mod. But melee attack will remain the same to slow down the battles. In this mod, too, Germania will lose its phalanx capability and its crazy 9-8 spear attack. They will still have an advantage in that they use spears like the Libyan spearmen, but they will be like any other ordinary barbarian gaesatae band (that's what I changed their name to) with 7-7 attack. Germania is too overpowered otherwise.

Strategy-wise I believe that the Romans must be conquered first in every single campaign, because they get too strong otherwise. In response to some of ther earlier posts, I have to say that you don't even run any risk fighting the Romans early on. It's not even difficult. I once took on 2 Roman full stacks (one of them the Senate) with 17 units of Germans, made up solely of spear phalanxes and generals' cavalry, and won a heroic victory with only 100 lost for over 4000. The discrepancy is even greater if you fight the Senate army one-on-one at the rIver ford immediately next to Rome. In that case all it takes is 5 spear phalanxes and you have a heroic victory against 4 times that.

[bubbanator]

^^

Quite on the contrary, Rome needs to be left alone so that they can expand and become powerful. This makes a much more challenging game towards the end.

[Garvanko]

Why give them a chance to grow and not the other factions?

[Craterus]

Rome are boring at mid/end-game. They pump out cohorts upon cohorts at you. *Yawn*

[pezhetairoi]

Yeah. And why would I want a challenging campaign? My objective is world domination, the streamlined, fast and painless way. Which means striking where the enemy is not, where the armies are not. Not using force against force, which is costly, painful, risky and not completely necessary. Hence my nick--master strategist. I like winning by strategy and moves, not by tactics on battlefields.

[Garvanko]

If you want a really challenging middle game, play rubbish at the start.

[pezhetairoi]

YES my god I did that the first time I played Germania. By turn 50 I was crashing in flames as Dacia, Brutus, Britannia and Gaul came knocking. Stupid German economy. :-/

[Viking]

Rome are boring at mid/end-game. They pump out cohorts upon cohorts at you. *Yawn*

The cohorts are funny to harass with your armoured elephants though, I simply love to do that. But yes, after doing that campaign after campaign it get`s incredible annoying

That`s why I always mod the romans to pieces in all of my campaigns.
In one campaign I even managed to destroy the House of Julii the very first turn without lifting a finger.

[katank]

Harass with armoured eles? You mean use eles as horse archers? LOL.

With Germania, the money is tight and pre-Marian troops are no fun to fight. Better just kill them and get your better troops faster.

[Viking]

Harass with armoured eles? You mean use eles as horse archers? LOL.

Ah damn my english

I like to smash the legions with my eles

[pezhetairoi]

Germania is too overpowered, given its early ability to katank Rome, its unbreakable phalanxes and its awesome unit roster. I have decided to mod its spear warband stats down so it becomes a standard warband, strip it of its phalanx capability, and make it 7-7 instead of 9-8 attack. After all historically I'm sure CA justified their giving of the Germanic phalanx by the accounts of the Germanic battles at Aquae Sextiae where under Marius, the Germans formed a shieldwall with spears, and at Strasbourg where historians reported the Germans adopted a 'semi-phalanx'. But nowhere was it a real phalanx. If based on this they would give the Germans the phalanx, then they should give the same to Gaul and Britannia. Ergo, Germania must lose its phalanx--its people should not be disciplined enough to stay in the shieldwall.

Anyway. I don't know where this came from. But do you think it's a wise move given your campaign experience of Germania?

[Skott]

Howdy All. I'm an old timer having come back for more Total Warfare. I been playing again for almost 3 weeks now. Yesterday I started a German campaign. Playing it on VH. For strategy I decided on take out Britain and Gaul first before moving south against the Roman Legions.

As everyone knows the hardest part about the German factions is that they are poor. So I built roads first, then markets, and then farms. Basically get money into my treasury. Then I started on the temple stuff. Mostly Freya to get population going but added a couple to Donar and Wotan on some for variety and extra bonuses.

First I attacked the Denmark settlement and pushed east till I butted up against the Scythians. I also pushed south and southeast till stopping before modern day Italian and Dacian borders.

In the west I made alliances with Gaul and took the continental British town in the modern day Normandy area. Then I took the Gaulish captial. Then I marched on the town in modern Brittany that has a port. And thats where I am now in the game. My next move will be to invade the Brittish Isles and then turn my attention south against the Gauls and then the Romans.

Sorry about not using the actual town names. I'm at work and dont have my game map with me to read them off.

All of the rebel towns I just occupied outright since their population is low. Alesia and the British town I enslaved the population to help out my own German held towns. The northern Gaulish town that has a port on the English Channel I exterminated the population because I needed the money badly.

I havent been bribing because I dont like giving the gold to the enemy. Better to not give them a means to fund more units at this point. Besides, I need the gold more than they do. Normally when I do bribe in this game its usually to quickly move a rebel army out of my pathway so it doesnt slow me down or I'll bribe a army that might be planning to attack a army or town of mine that I feel I cant beat. Generally I dont bribe though.

So far my family of generals is sufficient and has a fairly steady supply of new members coming in so my leadership is looking pretty good.

I have my diplomats roaming the world making alliances and selling map info as fast and as much as I can. This has been a big help so far. Once I get to the point of having archers I will be set for world conquest. When playing these campaigns its pretty standard tactics. Have a solid line of spear, pike, or hoplites (hastati, principes, or legions if a Roman faction) out front, some archers for artillery support behind the front line, and some cavalry to screen, flank, and run down routing units.

So far my strategy is fairly straight forward in this current campaign. Spears out front. Keeping them 3 to 4 ranks deep. If I have swordsman or axemen I keep them on the spear flanks and then cavalry on their flanks and ranged units in behind as artillery support. March them up to the enemy line till the ranged units in back are in range. Once they start throwing that generally triggers the enemy AI to attack and I let the enemy waste themselves on my spearpoints. Then I use my cavalry to flank and pursue when the enemy flees. When on defense its the same setup and strategy except I let the enemy come marching to me.

[pezhetairoi]

Skott, the faction you bribe doesn't receive the money you give to the army. Just because you bribe them doesn't mean they will have more money, just that their upkeep falls somewhat. Bribe by all means. It only weakens the enemy, not strengthens it.

Germania is poor, but has a distinct military advantage (I'm sure you noticed). It also has incredible fertility for an infertile place, since you get factioners on the average of 1 every 5-6 turns, which is incredible.

You would be able to build up archers much quicker if you went straight for a decapitation strike on Rome. My style is to throw my line back and play defensive, forming a ring or semicircle, with my cavalry guarding the rear and my archers in the empty space in the centre, and let my enemy waste himself. But warning, this is not a good idea to be used against enemy hoplites. Attacking wise, I advance in the formation of my defensive ring, enough to lure the enemy to me, then I rotate units into the defensive ring and wait. Once they start routing I unleash my cavalry on a rampage.

[Skott]

Wow, all this time I thought the bribe money went into the factions' treasury. I knew with rebel armies it didnt matter but just figured giving the enemy troops money was later used to build more units or buildings against me. In any case with the German campaign money is too hard to come by to part with for bribes anyway IMO. Although today I did bribe away three different armies to give myself time to build up. I hated doing it but it was necessary to buy me time.

Anyway today I got an army over onto the British Isles and captured Londinium. Managed to get a ceasefire with the Gauls while I take out the Brits. Once I conquer the British Isles I'll start again on the Gauls and probably the Romans.

I read that blitzing the Romans early on was possible and a sure fire way to get lots of fast cash but I opted not to. Decided to go the slow way via Brits and Gauls first. Maybe next time I'll try a blitz into Northern Italy.

Actually I'm currently running two different campaigns. My German campaign and today I started a Egyptian campaign. These campaigns can be long and boring at times so my attention can shift alot. Running two at the same time gives me some variety to break up the monotiny.

[pezhetairoi]

If you're already in Britain, consider capturing Deva-Tara and Londinium-Samaro at the earliest opportunity. These are excellent trade pairs whose trade income is OMG wonderful. It'll give a huge boost to your economy especially fi you build every trade-inducing building you can in them.

[LestaT]

Have played Germania vanilla before on M/M . Easy win , if I remembered my empires spans until the nile valley.

Now in RTR 5.41 will play again , after I finish my Armenian campaign. BTW when I was playing Macedon (RTR version) I'm at war with Germania but I found that they're an easy picking with my hoplites armies. Don't have much cav use except my Companion generals.

How does it fae in RTR ? Anyone played it yet ? Any advice ? Maybe any new units / tactics ? Is spearwarband still have the same stat ?

Cheers.

[Skott]

I havent had a chance to try Germania 5.4.1 yet either. Currently working on the Britons (Which I'm not enjoying very much) in 5.4.1. From what I heard they toned down some things for the Germans so they werent as easy. So far I'm finding 5.4.1 much more balanced than v1.0 vanilla overall.

If you get a German faction started before me let me know your impressions. I dont think I'll be starting a German campaign soon. Trying to get thru this Briton campaign first.

[LestaT]

I just started playing for a few turn. The first army consist of 2 generals and lots of axemen. Moving that arny down south towards Rome.

Still haven't had any battles yes. Both time encounter rebels but they retreat. Didn't pursue them , just clear them off the bridge and roads.

Have restarted my Armenian campaign so it will be a long time before Germania campaign kicks off.

[buzzard]

I'm in the middle of a grand campaign with the germans, and its a pretty fun campaign.

Right from the start i concentrated on wiping out the britons while trying to remain friendly with everyone else. After a few years, while i was tied up in britain, the gauls hit me without warning (they managed to sneak through an area where i had no watchtowers). A few towns changed hands, and about three years later i was able to get a ceasefire to buy to breathing room.

Britain is a great area to take over, as once you have it, you can forget about it, and it earns pretty good income to boot. Just needs a small garrison force to keep the peace.

Once you have britain, you then have the income to maintain a couple of standing armies, which let you move down to spain and italy. I haven't really touched any of the more eastern provinces, not sure if they are worth the hassle, and i'm beginning to need more money.

[Craterus]

Don't go east, provinces aren't rich and you'll find a lot of distance between cities. The steps are barren, leave them.

The msot effective tactic for Germania is the German Blitz. Basically, it's a beeline for Rome. Check back a few pages for all details. After you have Rome, and the Romans are gone, you can go whereever you want.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

In either 1.0 or 1.2, easily the most effective tactic for winning the game is the "blitz." Quick consolidation of your minimum "home base" followed (or accompanied) by a lightning stike on Rome with a powerful army. Whether or not this army ever comes home is secondary, so long as you have destroyed all 3 Roman factions and SPQR. Even if these provinces rebel, you have lost little and probably still have 240+ years to complete your objectives.

The point in striking Rome so hard and so quick is to strangle them like a wolf cub before they can grow. Since they are the factions with the greatest power to actually defeat you (or prevent the conquest of Rome), they are your prime target -- so don't wait.


This approach is also:

A-historical,

Strictly based on manipulating game mechanics to your advantage,

largely unrealistic,

anachronistic in that it utilizes military strategy and tactics which were not developed until after the development of the internal combustion engine,

and presumes a level of knowledge about geography, comparative strategic development, and a teleological orientation that would have been completely foreign to virtually everybody of that era.


Actually, I have always felt that some of the AI problems on the strategy map result more from these last two issues than any inherent "flaw" in the AI. The AI is set to be somewhat more historical in its methods/plan for expansion. All the players begin playing with all the lessons of the blitzkreig etc. already in mind.

Seamus

[Craterus]

Nice opinions there, and I have to agree. It is an effective strategy, and one of the easiest, but it takes a lot of things for granted. If you are up for a challenge, you should take an alternative route and take the Romans on later in the game. But, as I said before, the Blitz is the most effective start to the campaign.