RTW multiplayer is dead

[FearZeus]

Oh,

I almost forgot, here is the url for my full list of bugs etc, thx to must of us vets on here.... If we missed anything please let us know!

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...icID=305.topic

[Degtyarev14.5]

Hi voigtkampf

Sorry to hear u never played on-line before. I'm gonna try sticking around the MTW server and hopefully many of the old vets will stick around there too. You might get some good games yet :). Many are still willing to help new peeps.

Hmmm... Might do that now...

Make way guys, I'm a-comin'!

A.

[Voigtkampf]

Thank you all for your kind words.

We sound like TW anonymous, don't we; “Hi, I am Voigtkampf, and I am devastated for reasons all too obvious”

Chorus: “Hi, Voigtkampf!”

And then we all cry together.

Funny, I never thought I’d be one of those to complain about certain game [i]before[/b] they’ve actually played it! Alas, I am not complaining. I don’t give a jota about whether Bull Warrior is historically correct or not, I never did and I never will. I am just so very much displeased by the way people react to MP opposite to the people that react so positively about the SP part of the game. But when even people like d6veteran (greetings from yet another CoD clan fanatic!) who were, at the beginning, trying to remain optimistic, after all the hardships say “damn, its no good and I can’t keep fooling myself that it is!”, then the darkest hour for all TW fans has come. Woe unto us!

Shingenmitch2, do you remember our slight disputes over the issues of historical accuracies? They were always civilized, yet somewhat hot-tempered… Lol…. I wish that it was the only issue we would have about Rome… Now, sadly, we agree upon the same issue…

Now, I will play MP games and will try to stick to them, but… I am very disheartened now…

And I will build great temples in every province to honor CA if they bring out a patch that will improve Rome MP and the old guard returns to play this game and honor me with great, epic encounters!

[FearZeus]

Let us all pray with you voigtkampf!!!

CA bring out a patch that sorts out all our issues and you will remain our gods in the multiplayer world of total war!!!

[FearZeus]

Here is a copy of the email sent to activision this morning, I trust someone already contacted CA?

Hi,

Thankyou to yourselves and CA for 5 years of fantastic gaming of which I have thoroughly enjoyed and met in excess of 400 people of those 5 years.

However we (all multiplayers of Rome total war) have encountered serious flaws/bugs in the new Rome total war series which have promptly stopped multiplayers from playing this game, here is the list of problems that all Rome total war players are encountering, some however are things we hate and others are bugs.

1. sort out the join multiplayer drop to desktop issues
2. Copy chat for warhammer 40,000 or go back to MTW that was fine
3. the camera control in a nightmare but i hear you can chage that back to MTW style (yet to try so i will leave this here as a fix)
4. when at max height, can't make the units out and the game looks really bad from max height too (it's ugly)
5. the chat has gona backwards (just one key for allies and all)
6. multiplayer needs 4 v 4 or even 5 v 5 so why go backwards again to 3 v 3 plus it laggs, get this right first
7. flaming arrows seems to add fire to the lagg problem (pun intended)
8. overall the game just looks tacky and unfinished the units look small the yellow arrows you get from a height just look bad etc
9. How on earth did you make the game look so bad when MTW game play etc was spot on you seem to have changed all the best bits and made them worse???
10. can you please keep us frustrated souls updated on what your plans are, or do we all have to take our games back and demand refunds to get the message across?
11. make available denarri flexible
12. make all factions available to all players in the game
13. allow multiple units upgrading in unit selection screen
14. add relog files, how the hell could we ever held tourneys?
15. solve replay issue not showing real battle
16. Syncronicity -- Ensure game state is not diverging during the game
17. Replays-- ensure they are syncronized with game (currently they are NOT--we can't run tourneys without replays).
18. Unit/Army control is flawed--No way to move army and retain facing (in MTW this was alt-left click), no way to have groups within groups (as in MTW). Formation/orientation is destroyed when dragging a line of units: Say you have AAAABBBB units in a group. When you set them like this AABBBBAA and draw a line the result is AAAABBBB again. Units turn back to their original state and your setting/formation is ignored.
19. Grouped units often refuse to take orders (most commonly the run order). Some report un-grouped units are responding to orders directed at a group.
20. When in testudo, if a single unit walks into the formation, you lose control of that unit of the legionaries in testudo formation for the rest of the game.
21. allow Withdrawal/Rout in MP ("W"ithdraw doesn't work in MP!)
22. game info available from lobby
23. allow faction to be selected by more than one player
24. proprietary player names (so some jerk can’t steal your name and ruin your reputation) [linked to CD Key like MTW]).
25. allow “quick chat” (t/y) like in MTW, chat should not fade/scroll so quickly
26. Fatigue bars on units/exhausted units should not be able to run (but they can)
27. allow for custom denari amounts
28. #ignore/#ban commands for gamespy lobby
29. fade-out names for “in game” players in gamespy lobby
30. allow selection of faction color
31. show who is deployed and who isn’t deployed on the battle map.
32. Bring back F1 to view unit stats and players/factions/teams list (and grey out names of dropped/routed players like in MTW)
33. Unit tax for more than 4 units of same type
34. We need 2 keys to toggle run– if you have a group in which half the units are already running, pressing “R” makes them walk. So “R” becomes useless in groups where some units are walking and others are running. We need a “Run” button and a “Walk” button please.
35. Trying to order an engaged non-cav unit to fall back should result in a major morale penalty when they turn their backs. This doesn’t seem to be occuring.
36. Once routed, “restricted camera” mode should not apply to you. Please fix.
38. Look into reports of server lag.
39. Look into reports of host-drop crashing all players computers.
40. Brighter highlighting for selected units (some say it is difficult to tell selected units from non-selected units)
41. Being able to use general’s rally ability without having to select his unit.
41. Kill rate/game speed
43. Balance (cav/elephant) [more testing needed]

I speak for all Rome total war players and here is a few internet forums that may open your eyes to the problem we are all facing, I will report back to the forums as soon as I receive your reply.

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...icID=305.topic

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=31

http://www.totalwars.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4244

Thankyou
John Robinson also known as FearZeus in the total war community.

P.S A patch is surely needed to prevent many vets and long time players leaving the total war series in search of a new game! I eagerly await your reply!

[shingenmitch2]

Voigt,

Lol.

"Hi Voigtkampf. My name is Shingenmitch2. I've been in therapy for two weeks now and off TW and clean for seven days. I'm making progress. I take it day by day, knowing I'll never be totally free of my illness. Sadly, last night I had a relapse. I started hanging around one of my 'old friends' and we got hooked up with another MTW game. I only did it once, but now I have that need for MP adrenaline again..."

Actually I feel like an idiot now worrying about Bullsh*t warriors or the improper use of a spear in a phalanx. How minor that stuff seems with the issues this game is facing. I just never dreamed that we'd see the changes/bugs to the game that have occured.

[Puzz3D]

Mitch,

I took shock treatments in the form of the RTW demo. I was physically ill for abour 2 weeks, but then it passed. I haven't touched Total War multiplayer for 2 months, and it's great! I have less frustration, and I'm more productive now with the free time I gained.

[Dionysus9]

Hello my name is |Prophet|Bachus and I have been addicted to Total War for over three years now. I know I have a problem but I am too far gone to bother trying to recover. The most devastating aspect of my addiction is that I have begun taking a new form of total war called "Rome". This version looks clean and potent at first, but after using it for a very short time it becomes clear that it is cut with something awful--probably strycnine or rat poison. I'm getting these awful headaches from the lobby chat, I can't move my troops like I used to (they are scattered everywhere), and I'm starting to have problems in my nervous system. I know the end is near for me and I just want to tell you all that if you don't deal with your TW addiction soon it may be too late for you also.

[UglyandHasty]

heheheh Bachus

The 1st day i played Shogun it was already too late for me.

[Sp00n]

Its not dead its hiding under a giant bug with pointy horns, its actually growing on me although the bugs and missing stuff does suck 2 patches later it may be perfect, doubtfull though, the lack of 4v4 games is a real shame and 3v3 is virtually unplayable and I have cable.

Sorry to see you go Zeus ill miss our appallingly coordinated English World cup games (how bad were we).

Sp00n

[d6veteran]

FearZeus ... that list seems prioritized weird. For example #36 should be close to the top, since outside of the connectivity bug, it really is a game killer.

I would sort out the control issues from any multiplayer specific request.

Also ... #4 ... I like the distance. Not ugly on my machine anyway.

Anyway I just think we should prioritize the issues and then speak together. Laundry lists usually don't get taken seriously in my development experience.

[Voigtkampf]

Our prayers have been heard… I hope so, at least! I still don't have Rome and can’t tell!!! But for those that have it, go over to the .COM, download THE PATCH and tell me if we have the winner.

OMG, I hate my local game distributor! “When you will get Rome?” “Ugh, sometimes this month…We think…”

Plague upon thee!

[FearZeus]

Well the patch is out but it's made very little fifference...

I keep getting failed to connect to host? I still have no idea how to setup my napt router so i can host

Bacchus the game characters look absolutley terrible from max height, It looks like they changed the max height in the patch though (it's slightly lower now)

I just hate the way the characters look from max height, you can't make the character differences out without zooming in ( this is way too slow in the heat of battle)

[SouthwaterPanda]

Some advice if I might be so bold...

You need to do some serious work on that list if you want people to take any notice of it. Sending a big list of demands to the publisher or the developer and saying, "Fix all of these or the entire multiplayer community will give up," won't get you anywhere.

That list contains:
- unarguable bug reports
- requests for working features to be changed so they work like the previous game
- requests for working features to be changed for some reason
- requests for new features to be added
- balancing issues
- personal opinion

If you mix them all up as you've done, you get what looks like a long and tiresome rant. I know it's *not* a long and tiresome rant and it's not *meant* to be a long and tiresome rant, but that's what it *looks* like - especially since things like points 8, 9, and 10 are so early in the list and are a combination of personal opinion and hyperbole. (And a bit of a rant ;-)

Play the game with the patch, and draw up a shorter and less melodramatic list, and you'll have more chance of making an impact.

[Morindin]

Well I must say, im having an absolutely blast playing RTW LAN (especially those historical battles! They're great).

Much more fun than I ever had playing MTW by a long way, so I'm figuring most of the problems are the pre-game state, i.e. the lobby, gamespy, etc.

Last night I played a 1v1 Romans vs Carthagians using Pre-Marius armies, I used the classic checkerboard formation (huge units, 8 deep formations) and we had a very long engaging melee of about 30 minutes.
I pulled my histari back when they were getting exhausted and sent in my Principes, and did the same with my Triarii, and it worked effectively.

If the pre-marius Romans wernt so strong the battle would have lasted a much longer time, as I mananged to keep reinforcing my front battleline, whereas the Carthagian general didnt support his frontline units quick enough due to the weaker early Carthagian infantry.

Anyway, in terms of the actual game itself (past gamespy and the lobby) these are my issues, I havnt tried post patch (so these may have been fixed).

Bugs:
Game sometimes slips out of sync
90% of Replays are different from the actual game.
Various other bugs that plague single player (group bugs, movement bugs, etc) plague multiplayer as well. Im sure CA is well aware of these by now.

Personal Issues:
Would love the ability to group a single unit into a control group of its own.
I.E. If I only have two units of cavalry + general, ctrl-5 for left group of cav, ctrl-7 for right wing of cav, and ctrl-0 for general. Right now you cant group a single unit into its own group
Camera needs to be a little bit less restricted, i.e. so you can move to a unit on the other side of a castle wall away from your main group more easily.
It would be nice to have different Denarii ratings for attacker/defender.
You need the ability to withdraw units from battle, so you dont get stuck with a small bedraggled unit on the edge of the map and you cant resign.

Balance Issues:
None so far, apart from the Barbarian races tend to get wasted. Perhaps they need more units per group, I dont know.
Some of the stronger races matchups, Romans vs Carthagians, Egyptians vs Numidians, Seculoids vs Greeks, have all been very close so far.
I didnt think Elephants were overpowered personally, but having said that Id wouldnt want to face them as the Gauls. :)

Specs:
GF4 5800 FX Ultra + GF4 Ti 4200 (game runs fine on max settings on both cards, well done I must say).
WindowsXP Professional SP2
Intel P4 3.0GHZ not overclocked
512MB Kingston 433MHZ Ram
ASUS P4-800 Delux Motherboard + Crappy Onboard sound provider.
256k Up/Down ADSL (Yet to try online play however).

Im sure the online multiplayer community will be able to add to this list in a structured and mature manner yes?

I also think you should post your system specs, so the devs can tell wether your problems of 'laggy gameplay' 'continual crashes' are due to your crappy computer/33.6k modem/outdated video card with 1980s drivers/66% overclocked CPU running at 70 Degrees C, etc

[FearZeus]

Some advice if I might be so bold...

You need to do some serious work on that list if you want people to take any notice of it. Sending a big list of demands to the publisher or the developer and saying, "Fix all of these or the entire multiplayer community will give up," won't get you anywhere.

That list contains:
- unarguable bug reports
- requests for working features to be changed so they work like the previous game
- requests for working features to be changed for some reason
- requests for new features to be added
- balancing issues
- personal opinion

If you mix them all up as you've done, you get what looks like a long and tiresome rant. I know it's *not* a long and tiresome rant and it's not *meant* to be a long and tiresome rant, but that's what it *looks* like - especially since things like points 8, 9, and 10 are so early in the list and are a combination of personal opinion and hyperbole. (And a bit of a rant ;-)

Play the game with the patch, and draw up a shorter and less melodramatic list, and you'll have more chance of making an impact.

I assure you none of this is ranting and I speak for all Rome total war players, I will work on the list as you requested and trust that you will do your best to rectify the problems, bugs, and hopefully yes some of the working issues as they seem to have gone backwards. As for personal opinion yes you right! it's the personal opinion of 300 RTW players ;)

Anyway as you say it needs putting in order and catagorizing, consider it done, and thank you for sitting up and taking notice, I really appreciate it

[FearZeus]

OK guys,

Read the post above, I need help sorting out this list bacchus your name springs to mind as you already advised me... If you guys can help me with a comprehensive list email me fearzeus@hotmail.com or pm me.

Thx guys...

[SouthwaterPanda]

You cannot seriously tell me that none of the list is ranting. Just at a quick pass, here's what I think of your list:

Bug/issue reports:
1. sort out the join multiplayer drop to desktop issues
7. flaming arrows seems to add fire to the lagg problem (pun intended)
15. solve replay issue not showing real battle
16. Syncronicity -- Ensure game state is not diverging during the game
17. duplicate of 15
19. Grouped units often refuse to take orders (most commonly the run order). Some report un-grouped units are responding to orders directed at a group.
20. When in testudo, if a single unit walks into the formation, you lose control of that unit of the legionaries in testudo formation for the rest of the game.
38. Look into reports of server lag.
39. Look into reports of host-drop crashing all players computers.

Those could be bugs or they could be facts - e.g. "flaming arrows cause lag" may have the answer "yes, they do - tough". Servers may lag - yes, quite true. Some are worth investigating. OK, next:

Change requests:

2. Copy chat for warhammer 40,000 or go back to MTW that was fine
11. make available denarri flexible
12. make all factions available to all players in the game
13. allow multiple units upgrading in unit selection screen
14. add relog files, how the hell could we ever held tourneys?
21. allow Withdrawal/Rout in MP ("W"ithdraw doesn't work in MP!)
22. game info available from lobby
23. allow faction to be selected by more than one player
24. proprietary player names (so some jerk can’t steal your name and ruin your reputation) [linked to CD Key like MTW]).
26. Fatigue bars on units/exhausted units should not be able to run (but they can)
(27. duplicate of 11)
28. #ignore/#ban commands for gamespy lobby
29. fade-out names for “in game” players in gamespy lobby
30. allow selection of faction color
31. show who is deployed and who isn’t deployed on the battle map.
32. Bring back F1 to view unit stats and players/factions/teams list (and grey out names of dropped/routed players like in MTW)
33. Unit tax for more than 4 units of same type
34. We need 2 keys to toggle run– if you have a group in which half the units are already running, pressing “R” makes them walk. So “R” becomes useless in groups where some units are walking and others are running. We need a “Run” button and a “Walk” button please.
36. Once routed, “restricted camera” mode should not apply to you. Please fix.
41. Being able to use general’s rally ability without having to select his unit.

None of those are bugs. The game works fine without them.

And finally, personal opinion and hearsay:

3. the camera control in a nightmare but i hear you can chage that back to MTW style (yet to try so i will leave this here as a fix)
4. when at max height, can't make the units out and the game looks really bad from max height too (it's ugly)
5. the chat has gona backwards (just one key for allies and all)
6. multiplayer needs 4 v 4 or even 5 v 5 so why go backwards again to 3 v 3 plus it laggs, get this right first
8. overall the game just looks tacky and unfinished the units look small the yellow arrows you get from a height just look bad etc
9. How on earth did you make the game look so bad when MTW game play etc was spot on you seem to have changed all the best bits and made them worse???
10. can you please keep us frustrated souls updated on what your plans are, or do we all have to take our games back and demand refunds to get the message across?
18. Unit/Army control is flawed--No way to move army and retain facing (in MTW this was alt-left click), no way to have groups within groups (as in MTW). Formation/orientation is destroyed when dragging a line of units: Say you have AAAABBBB units in a group. When you set them like this AABBBBAA and draw a line the result is AAAABBBB again. Units turn back to their original state and your setting/formation is ignored.
(25. duplicate of 5)
35. Trying to order an engaged non-cav unit to fall back should result in a major morale penalty when they turn their backs. This doesn’t seem to be occuring.
40. Brighter highlighting for selected units (some say it is difficult to tell selected units from non-selected units)
41. Kill rate/game speed
43. Balance (cav/elephant) [more testing needed]

None of that bunch are provably right or wrong, and some are just ranting.

So: there are duplicates, there are points which would make no sense to a casual reader, and there's a general unsorted mishmash of bug reports, personal views, complaints that you want it to be just like Medieval, or another game. And in one case, you're saying "I'm just repeating what someone else has told me about this feature, but you should change it anyway".

I've noted the interesting parts of this list for internal consumption, but you need to see that the tone of the list and its disorganised content is why emails like this only get a pro forma response, or no response at all, when you send them to Activision or CA.

I can believe that the Total War MP community as represented on this site has issues with the game, but if this is the personal opinion of three hundred Rome MP players - name them. Seriously: show me three hundred posts from three hundred different MP players, all of whom back every point on that list, and it'll be a lot more impressive than any one person *saying* he speaks for three hundred.

[FearZeus]

You have noted your issues regarding the list and I have assured you I will work on it asap, I also thanked you for sitting up and noticing and gave you my appreciation.

Now give me a chance to organize it, in the mean time I will also get a list of players name that support the list.

Again I stress, I appreciate your concern and hope you can help us, the MP community.

Thank you SouthwaterPanda

[Tera]

Panda,

I can assure you that most of the multiplayer community perfectly agrees on most of the points mentioned by Zeus. In fact, these points were not listed by Zeus himself - a large chunk of the multiplayer community (found at .COM/.NET/.ORG mostly) contributed to this list. We don't want to present this as a personal effort - it's the collective effort of the loyal multiplayer community.

I agree with you that the aformentioned list contains entries which shouldn't be there, and that the list should be more orderly and explanatory. We will work on this.

But let us be clear on two points:

- if you want proof that tens/hundreds of us agree with the list, then you shall have it.
- It's true - the game "works" without many of the features removed from previous games. However, does that mean that the game can't be bettered? Flexible denari and detailed logfiles, for example - would they hamper the playability of the game or actually improve it? These are not bugs, in fact we do not wish only bugs to be resolved, but we mostly wish additions and improvements to the game. I don't think our arguments are stupid. We fought for most of the aformentioned features over the years, and now we get a new game that trashed most of them altogether. Please bear with us.

Tera.

[CelticFalcon]

I for one would sign that petition anyday!

[FearZeus]

Thx tera,

Basically said eveything I would have liked to say! I only want the best for the MP community and I think we vets know best, please see post above, titled petition.

[CBR]

Well I dont agree with the unit max 4 tax. People can make rules or just dont play with huge amounts of denarii.


CBR

[LRossaRikimaru]

Panda,

I can assure you that most of the multiplayer community perfectly agrees on most of the points mentioned by Zeus. In fact, these points were not listed by Zeus himself - a large chunk of the multiplayer community (found at .COM/.NET/.ORG mostly) contributed to this list. We don't want to present this as a personal effort - it's the collective effort of the loyal multiplayer community.

Tera.

and not only .com/net/org , also all the italian MP community (you can found in the links of this site) agree with the lists of bugs write by Zeus!
if u want we can storm this tread with a hundred of crying italian people asking for patch and bugfixes!!!

please the community!

[FearZeus]

thx for you opinion CBR I might just agree with you, we are currently working over time on a new list please bare with us..

Riki can you put your name down on the list above that say petition please and if your clan is in favour, get those to post there too...

Many thx to lrossa for thier support ;)

[ElmarkOFear]

How about this breakdown for organzing the MP issues:

1. MP Lobby Post-Patch bugs - List the technical problems found: Ex. Trying to log-on and the de-synching problem (if still there).

2. In-Game bugs: - List the mechanical problems with the game such as: Units when grouped often ignoring commands (give examples of this), Units getting stuck in castle gates during seiges, Any pathfinding problems (list units and situations), etc . . . Try to offer up replays or example situations so CA can try to repeat these and view first-hand what the problems are. Will speed up the process a lot.

2. MP Lobby features from STW/MTW which have been left out and which the MP community has found useful: - List the items you miss: Ex. Ignore feature, private chat windows feature, ping listing, more detailed game settings for hosted games, etc . . even requests for changes to the look of the MP lobby (The moving pictures in the background give this old man a headache! hehe)

3. In-Game features from STW/MTW which have been left out/changed and which the MP community has found useful: - This would be for items such as: Logfiles, better replay feature with unit info, status shown like in MTW, more MP maps or a map editor, the "rout" and "withdraw" commands which help shorten length of wasted time in games killing last unit, A classic MTW control/camera view system, simple chat like in MTW (less clicks), 1 player/1 faction limit in the MP games, 4v4 MP games, More host options/abilities (like changing denarii to allow any level to be set by host, etc . .

4. [U]Miscellaneous items which cannot be easily placed in above sections.[/U]

5. A wishlist of things which the MP community would like to see added: Ex. A ladder/ranking system, Voice command (like TeamSpeak) included, etc . .


All of these areas need to be sorted 1 thru ?, by importance to the community. Remember to provide hard evidence in the way of Replays, or details of the units, game type, map, and any other details of when/where/how the problems occured. Screenshots would even help. The more info. the better.

If this is done in a non-critical (non-ranting) manner, it will help speed the patching process along considerably and maybe give CA a bit of time to add features they might normally not have time to. It will also possibly give CA some ideas for future development.

I know everyone on both sides is very unhappy and unsettled by recent events. If CA is willing to work with the MP community and forge a working relationship and openly communicate (when problems arise that will not allow changes to be made), I am positive the MP community will stand behind them and give them the benefit of the doubt and possibly offer up some alternatives which would at least improve the problem spots. I think the lack of communication for over a year by CA, has created a bigger problem than if they had just come out and said: "We are changing RTW to be more friendly to new players, but want to keep the MP community satisfied as well." Then run a few ideas by the community (without giving away details which competitors might use) and see what the MP community can come up with.

For example:

CA: We are considering changing the camera views to be more RTS-like, to attract RTS players (who may never have considered this game before). What kind of camera views are important to MP play and how could we change them to help attract this new market?"

MP Community: "Being able to easily identify one's units and the ability and the ability to quickly move around the map are two of the most important things concerning the camera view. The MP community is not as worried about the graphics as they are about gameplay. The camera view should allow easy identification and also be close enough to the action to make selecting units easy, while also being far enough away to allow for an overall view of the battlefield. These two critical views could be set by hotkeys or by a mouse scroll button. It is a delicate balance, but views found in MTW combined with a view such as the -ian command provided would be excellent for MP play. The up-close view could be offered as an option to be turned off by the MP community as well."


Civil discussions such as these would have limited the problems you are seeing today. To also help keep things more organized and simple, the community could elect representatives from each of the main forums: .com, .org., .net. TWC etc . . to be the contact points for the whole community. These elected representatives could offer up ideas which CA would like to discuss, and then lead the community discussions, sort, organize the most important points and then offer them back to CA for them to look at. It would save time from CA employees' busy schedules, yet would offer them a glimpse of how changes would impact the MP community.

If CA's market strategy is to open up the game to the RTS and eventually to the console crowd, then they must also realize that these two markets LIVE for the multiplayer experience. RTS is nothing unless you are beating human opponents: No AI, no matter how good, can stand up to hundreds of humans who analyze its every move. Console games all offer up a multiplayer experience, whether it is a LAN type one with many Consoles being networked, or an XBox LIVE! type of setup. Multiplayer is extremely important to these two groups.

Sorry to have been long-winded, but I felt these items needed to be addressed if the TW series is to have a long and prosperous shelf-life like its first 2 games STW and MTW did.

UglyElmo

[FearZeus]

Elmo add me to your msn messenger, we are currently working on an improved list in that sort of order, can you help out pls i am currently buzzing from forum to forum at the mo so don't have time to read lengthy topics at the mo but will i assure you m8 ;)

[FearZeus]

sorry here is my hotmail address fearzeus@hotmail.com

[Morindin]

Has CA actually stated they aim to take RTS to console gaming or is this just a bitter assumption by many people here?
The logic seems to be "RTW = RTS, RTS = Kids, Consoles = kids, my god, CA is trying to make TW console games!"

RTS games have never really been successful on console platforms, and the best PC RTS games are definately not available on consoles, so this move would really surprize me.

I own a PS2 / Xbox and a PC, and by far RTS games are far more enjoyable on PC and would be extremely tedious on a console machine due to the limited controls (two mini joysticks).
The only RTS game Ive ever really played on a console was Age of Kings, and it was pretty piss poor compared to the PC version.

Im also quite surprized by the comments on how multiplayer and console is everything.
A lot of console games are actually pretty crap in the multiplayer department with a few rare exceptions, the heavy majority of them being ONE PLAYER. The other online RTS games are plagued with pretty much the same problems as RTW - gamespy.

The rare exception is Blizzard games due to the ease and success of their battle.net system they can ignore gamespy completely.

Despite the harping on in this forum, single player is hardly dead.
There was a period a while ago where most FPS games would not even really have a single player part, but Doom3 single player is the only good thing about it - HL2 will definately be single player orientated, and while a few console games are moving to multiplayer enviroments they are sorely lacking compared to their singleplayer counterparts (mostly just being a "deathmatch" only version of what they are in single player).

[Colovion]

Elmo if only the gaming community was organized in such a way where the devs and the community are so interconnected as that....

Unfortunately it's not - yet.