Macedon

[katank]

With the jumping horsies, even in phalanx mode, they can be a bit vulnerable. I personally like to escort pikers or hoplites not in phalanx with cav. COunter charge enemy cav with mine and move up the pikers and then activate phalanx=enemy horsie kebob

[pezhetairoi]

mmm, i don't see why everyone's so afraid about being caught out of phalanx. Well, just me, at least :-P In small battles the standard-formation phalanx is always in my line of sight so I can smell a cavalry charge coming a mile away and be ready for it by then, and in big battles I usually open the battle with phalanx contact rather than outflanking actions by cavalry, so I'm also always watching my line. Cavalry shouldn't be able to come close to your phalanx without you noticing... I always put my phalanx into phalanx the instant enemy horsemen come within bowshot range.

[katank]

Sometimes the spear bonuses that phalanx units enjoy makes them decent against cav even without phalanx. Tip is to hit stop before attempting to form a phalanx as it helps to get them back in line faster.

I can indeed usually see the enemy from far off too and get time to turn phalanx back on.

[pezhetairoi]

wait, you mean they can face cavalry even with phalanx turned off? I thought they were mincemeat if their pointy sticks were facing up when the horsies came.

[katank]

Only if very massed. Phalanx pikers and royal ones can stand a chance with pikes up and being massed. Levies will die.

What I usually have is my cav near the pikers escorting. Even if my cav is inferior, I will countercharge the enemy cav and try to stop them near my pikes. Then I rush the pikes in and let them melee, turning on phalanx. Nothing wrong with them meleeing for a while out of phalanx. It's the charge that really hurts.

[pezhetairoi]

I see. It can get annoying in the cities, I'll give you that. My phalanxmen for some strage reason simply CANNOT remain in phalanx formation once they begin the town-square phase of the battle.

[katank]

Have you tried to turn it off and then back on after you finished moving? I find that turning it off actually helps. When phalanxes hit a building corner or something, stuff gets screwy.

[pezhetairoi]

Problem is, I need to leave it back on because they are already at the town square and are about to wheel and engage, for example, falxmen. So once I turn it off (and the units are really too close for comfort, the falxmen may charge) I get the shivers. But when the phalanx joins combat, have you seen that annoying part where their spears all disappear and they spread out to fight? It's DAMNEDLY annoying, because my infantry backbone was levy pikemen, which are useless in melee. They don't engage the enemy with their pikes where they would win for sure.

[katank]

That's why you need to park the phalanxes just out of the town square. This way, the enemy wouldn't charge you immediately. You have time to arrange a nice wall of steel.

Then you provoke them into charging this wall of death by either firing at them with missile in patch 1.2. Or, you can charge cav slightly into the square and quickly out through your phalanx.

When the enemy is under fire or has threat in the town sqaure, they will charge in that direction. Result, they pitch themselves to their death upon thy spears.

[pezhetairoi]

...Ah, well. I just realised I'd been playing hoplite factions before 1.2. I shall try it on 1.2 and see. Is there absolutely NO way I can join battle with the town square guard in offence and still maintain my phalanx? I'm not really the defensive kind of hoplite player, unless I'm way outnumbered or I don't have the mood to manoeuvre that day.

[Deus ret.]

Then you provoke them into charging this wall of death by either firing at them with missile in patch 1.2. Or, you can charge cav slightly into the square and quickly out through your phalanx.

Bringing cavalry out through your phalanx, especially when they are stacked? Admittedly I never tried this in town battles...but on the open field I tried to pull back my ranged attackers through the phalanxes before the enemy cav could catch them. Well, the result of it was that the cav charged into my phalanx, just as desired....if there hadn't still been so many archers between them. Two units of Cretans decimated to one damnit! Since that day, I put up my phalanx units not in a single line, but every second one some what more to the back to give the archers, but not the cavalry room to slip through.
Well, in my experience it takes any unit AGES to pull back through phalanx units behind them. Or did I miss something?

[pezhetairoi]

No you didn't. The phalanx was historically tightly packed so it's quite miraculous as is that units can pull back -through- them. But yeah, cavalry lures are wonderful. Though most often, playing hoplite factions I go defensive, and let the enemy (assuming they're not hoplites) attack me. That way I don't even have to bother about lures, since the enemy will jolly well charge himself without invitation into my lines of spears. I can score victories like the one where my combined starter Germanic army (15 units, 9 of them phalanxes) won an annihilation victory over a combined full-stack Senate and full-stack Julii army attacking at once. Annihilation = no enemy left standing at the end of the battle.

[Deus ret.]

Impressing! so the AI is even more stupid than I thought it to be. sounds good, I'll try it that way.

[katank]

In that case, you try to have light nimble cav that can run around.

Besides, that's assuming you don't get cav chasing you. Cav will not give any other cav sufficient time to run through or around a phalanx.

The idea is to lure infantry onto your spears. Missile cav is likely the best for this.

[pezhetairoi]

When playing defensive, I just form a circle with my phalanx with double thickness protecting the side directly facing the direction of enemy advance, and some protecting the flanks. The rear is either protected by phalanxes, melee infantry, or my cavalry, which take up all the space within the circle that isn't ranged infantry. I do not need any light cav running about--the enemy does the running for me, tiring himself out to face my fresh troops.

When the battle opens all I do is turn on guard mode and wait, on double speed. The shock troops, cavalry AND infantry both, will attack, including the general's cavalry, and because your own general is right in the centre of the circle with Rally Troops turned on, equidistant from all troops, your phalanxes will NEVER break, even if they be levy pikemen who face five units of generals' cavalry at once. (Which was what happened to me, but alright, it was two double-thickness units facing the five, not one, and about twenty made it through to be slaughtered by my patiently waiting bodyguard cav)

Not only are your reserve infantry/cavalry ready to charge into any breach in your lines, or slaughter whatever makes it through your phalanx, the enemy is guaranteed to keep charging into your pikes/spears until they die or rout. Once they are whittled down, routing or once they have only ranged units left (ignore them, they won't be able to shoot long enough to cause our phalanxes much damage), then it's your cavalry's turn to play. Charge them out from behind your phalanxes and run amok to complete the pursuit phase of the battle.

Your cavalry will not have anything to worry about since velites and archers are pretty useless without the shock infantry to screen them, the enemy cavalry is already long since dead, and if you are playing on limited ammo mode (unlike me), they will eventually have to charge into you, or rout upon which you charge into them anyway. Voila. Phalanxes are impregnable.

Crucial, though, is the fact that you mut overlap phalanxes in deployment. Without that you will take rather heavy losses as each unit gets rolled up from the flanks. Sure you'll still win, but you lose way more men than normal. In this case, though, watch out for the rightward phalanx movement and be prepared to charge troops into the left flank once it is exposed (and it WILL be given the length of the battle). On guard mode, as you may have noticed, units tend to move -forward- instead of to the right, and that too is dangerous since they expose their flanks. You must watch the battle and protect your flanks with sufficient reserves.

[Craterus]

Hello! I just started my Macedonian campaign this evening. It (closely) beat Greek Cities.

Anywho, I took Athens, shamefully, to great losses. And that's about it so far. I'm about to take Crete, it will be a nice little moneymaker and an attractive asset alongside my already growing empire.

Where next though? Should I aid my Greek Allies in fending off the Brutii and then advance up that coast to the top of the Italian peninsular, in preparation to take Rome early. Or should I re-trace Alexander's footsteps? It will definitely be hard to do that because the Romans will grow strong if left unattended. I could even do both, although I don't have the army to do this at the moment. Your thoughts please...

[IliaDN]

As far as I remember I started my Macedonian campaign with blietzcrieg against greeks and romans.In my opinion the best option is to unite Greece under one empire and then turn all avaliable forces against romans and first of all their expansion on Balkans.

[Craterus]

I've taken a slightly different route.

I've taken Sparta but left the Greeks with Rhodes, Pergamum, Thermon and Syracuse. They have sent their only ok army off to aid Syracuse against Scipii. I sunk half of the fleet which they were taking the men on, so I don't even know if they will get there without sinking.

I've now settled for an alliance with the Greeks and terminated my alliance with Brutii. I thought I'd stick up for my hellenic brothers.

I've got a brilliant full-stack in a fort, ready to protect Thermon for the Greeks, and annihalate the Brutii's Balkans army. Then I will take back Epirus and Dalmatia. Then follow up that route and enter Italy from the top, getting the Julii and also conquer from the "heel" of the "boot", attacking Tarentum and Croton. Implode the Romans, if you like.

[pezhetairoi]

Mine is (was), again, drastically different. I went 'to hell with alliances', and concentrated all my armies for a strike south. Turn 7 saw me in possession of unwalled Sparta, Spartan hoplites notwithstanding, Turn 8 saw Thermon being stormed. Athens was also taken in Turn 4. I made sure, though, to build up my levy pikemen first, hence Turn 7, or else it could have been Turn 3, or 5. Pikemen are the advantage of the macedonians. Don't conquer the world with militia hoplites when you can build levies. In short, by turn 15 I had annihilated the Brutii and was driving on to Capua. By turn 25 I had all of western Asia Minor. By turn 35 I controlled the Balkans. By Turn 45 I was fighting those two amazing Macedonian victories against Scythian horse archers. Still strikes me as a miracle, those battles. Then, at turn 52 I got sick of the campaign (too slow) and I switched to Scythia.

Strategically speaking I find it much safer to clear your backyard of possible threats, because the AI Greek playing style is to build up full stacks in Sparta. Sooner or later they will come for Corinth, so better to get rid of them now. And the Brutii? They won't even have a chance to move on Thermon if you move fast enough. Advancing north up the Adriatic coast does not benefit you economically since the rebels there are not built up, and it's a waste of time since they are roadless and there're only two possible settlements you can take along the way. And besides, don't make the Gauls nervous with your army in close proximity when they will ally with once you make contact with them. That's what happened in both my game and my friend's. Go from the south instead, it's closer within mutual supporting distance, and one ship can easily make the crossing. In my case the moment Sparta was conquered, I sent my Thessalonica fleet around the Peloponnesus, arriving just in time to pick up the Italian invasion army, fresh from storming Apollonia, and besiege Tarentum, all in one turn.

Just my thoughts. I don't like making alliances early in the game, so my playing style, I think, reflects that :-)

[Craterus]

Mine is (was), again, drastically different. I went 'to hell with alliances', and concentrated all my armies for a strike south. Turn 7 saw me in possession of unwalled Sparta, Spartan hoplites notwithstanding, Turn 8 saw Thermon being stormed. Athens was also taken in Turn 4. I made sure, though, to build up my levy pikemen first, hence Turn 7, or else it could have been Turn 3, or 5. Pikemen are the advantage of the macedonians. Don't conquer the world with militia hoplites when you can build levies. In short, by turn 15 I had annihilated the Brutii and was driving on to Capua. By turn 25 I had all of western Asia Minor. By turn 35 I controlled the Balkans. By Turn 45 I was fighting those two amazing Macedonian victories against Scythian horse archers. Still strikes me as a miracle, those battles. Then, at turn 52 I got sick of the campaign (too slow) and I switched to Scythia.

Strategically speaking I find it much safer to clear your backyard of possible threats, because the AI Greek playing style is to build up full stacks in Sparta. Sooner or later they will come for Corinth, so better to get rid of them now. And the Brutii? They won't even have a chance to move on Thermon if you move fast enough. Advancing north up the Adriatic coast does not benefit you economically since the rebels there are not built up, and it's a waste of time since they are roadless and there're only two possible settlements you can take along the way. And besides, don't make the Gauls nervous with your army in close proximity when they will ally with once you make contact with them. That's what happened in both my game and my friend's. Go from the south instead, it's closer within mutual supporting distance, and one ship can easily make the crossing. In my case the moment Sparta was conquered, I sent my Thessalonica fleet around the Peloponnesus, arriving just in time to pick up the Italian invasion army, fresh from storming Apollonia, and besiege Tarentum, all in one turn.

Just my thoughts. I don't like making alliances early in the game, so my playing style, I think, reflects that :-)

I've taken Sparta, no backyard surprise attacks coming from there.

The Greeks seem preoccupied in Sicily, probably trying to save Syracuse, their only Spartan building city left (there's no way in hell they are taking Sparta back).

I think I'll go through the heel and the north as planned. I might bypass the Gallic (allies) towns and sail straight towards Julii. Hopefully, Greeks will hold off Scipii on Sicily so I can attack Brutii and Julii. Then the Roman factions can't help each other out.

[katank]

I went a similar route to Pez. I brought down the archers ASAP to kill off the unit of Spartans. A defensive battle shattered the rest of the Greek army outside Sparta.

I killed Thermon quickly too. I also managed to take Apollonia before the Brutii even had a wall up.

A quick transport over then saw me in possession of the heel of the Italian boot. I simply marched up and built my 2 archers to 2 silver chevrons by the time I reached Rome. They shot up those foolish Romans running like idiots inside their walls in sieges.

[pezhetairoi]

haha, I didn't even need to storm Rome, because the Senate army met me in grand battle outside its walls (idiots.) So when push came to shove before the Walls of Rome, all they had to defend it was one unit of hastati and their faction leader. Easy-peasy.

[Craterus]

Brutii don't have a wall up at Appolonia yet. I'll strike before it's too late. Then I'll take my nice, half-stack fleet to transport me over. It's the Scipii I'm worried about the most. They have a good defensive position and could halt my advance on Rome, giving Julii (and Senate, for that matter) time to prepare. Hopefully, Greeks can hold them off.

[pezhetairoi]

When I besieged Tarentum en route to Rome in my campaign the Scipii managed to send a full stack or hastati, generals and principes at me to attempt to relieve the siege. You might want to beware of that. Oh, but once you break those full stacks you've more or less broken the Scipii back.

[Craterus]

Thanks. Well I've got it all planned out, now I just have to put it into action.

Unfortunately, my brother is doing his A levels soon and he needs to use the computer to revise.

I won't be playing Rome much this week, so no updates and definitely no Roman-killing...

until the weekend

Should I take Thermon from the Greeks or just leave them with it? I don't want any surprise attacks but I don't want war with them until I have beaten the Romans. I need them to hold off Scipii for me.

[orcorama]

maybe you could bribe it?
i dont know your financial situation but usually greece/macedon has a lot of money

[Craterus]

If you bribe and they reject, don't they wage war with you? Or even if they accept? After all, I'm wiping them off their homeland leaving them with just Rhodes, Syracuse and Pergamum.

[Viking]

If they reject: no war
If they accept: transgression

But it`s very expensive, and you are early in your campaign.

[Craterus]

I have 10,000 stashed away, I'm making almost 10,000 a turn anyway, and their garrison is very low. They have sent all their available men to help out in Sicily.

[orcorama]

it depends how big the city is and how many guys they have and the general if any and how happy they are
if the town is small which thermon is a large town i think
and you say there is only a small army
and if you put spys into the settlements the happyines level goes down