Europa Barbarorum

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Brilliant. You couldn't put together a quick list of comparative stats for say the Gauls, Brits, Germans, Romans and Greeks? It would give a starting point.

The best for everyone taking care of units, is to get this:

RomeUnitGuide (PDF format) 1.2

It's a list of all RTW units stats, in the release version. Continually being updated.

[Hagbard la Suede]

I know this might seem strange,but I'm a big lover of the european "barbarian" factions,and I think I'd be great to test them out too :)

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Historically...

Britain...

Word of warning!!!

This is not a thread for Historical discussion. If you want to do that, do it the Monastery. This a technical discussion thread. I shall not repeat myself!!!

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I know this might seem strange,but I'm a big lover of the european "barbarian" factions,and I think I'd be great to test them out too :)

Added to the list.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Update on the work list:


-campaign map/province/city changes:

khelvan
Oleander Ardens
...
...
...


-faction name changes/new faction implementation:

Silver Rusher
...
...
...


-unit changes/new unit implementation/3d and 2d graphics:

I've taken the liberty of subdividing the team in faction groups, acconding to you interests.
Please PM me if you don't agree with your assignement.

Gauls and Britons:
Vercingetorix
PSYCHO V
...

Germanic:
Stefan the Berserker
reconspy
...

Iberians:
Aymar de Bois Mauri

Undetermined faction (PM me to coordinate):
TigerVX
...
...
...

-battle system changes:

Steppe Merc
Aymar de Bois Mauri
...
...


-naval battle changes:

khelvan
Colovion
...
...


-economic/population model changes:

khelvan
Oleander Ardens
...
...


-Coordination of the EB Historical thread:

Teutonic Knight
Aymar de Bois Mauri
...
...


-Faction and unit Descriptions:

Gauls and Britons:
PSYCHO V
...

Germanic:
Stefan the Berserker
...

Iberians:
Aymar de Bois Mauri

Undetermined faction (PM me to coordinate):
Stormy
chemchok
...
...


-Gameplay testing and debugging:

Colovion
Ranika
Steppe Merc
Monk
Stormy
chemchok
PSYCHO V
Hagbard la Suede
Salazar
Mr. Juice
Dead Moroz
...

Post me if you have any doubts about specific assignements within the same work related area



Updated 14:20 - 10/20/04

[Salazar]

I would like to Take part in Gameplay testing, as i don't know much about modding but would like to help in some Way :-)

[PSYCHO V]

Yes, same Psycho Aussie guy.

Well, began my first forays into skinning.

Played with those dam Night Raiders and got rid of those annoying Gallic traits. Can't do anything bout dem plats unfortunately.



..and been playing with the Gallic Warband. Anyone have an easy solution for the torc?

[Steppe Merc]

Right, I know a lot about Parthia, so I'll list the Parthian units, whether there good or not, and make suggestion changes/additions.
First off, all of them should be recoulered, loose the faction colours, and loose the pajamas.

Melee

1. Peasants - Not so sure. I hate peasants, so I can't comment on them in a non biased fashion.
2. Eastern Infanrt- Idea good, exicution bad. Loose the pajamas, and the hood. Stats are good, as their infantry sucked.
3. Hillmen- Pretty good. They did recruit many hill people, and they were better trained than their standard infantry. Mabye loose the hood.

This is pretty good. The parthians infantry sucked, and most were skirmershers, so this is represented pretty well.

Skirmeshers

1. Slingers - Has pajamaitis. Has too strong of an melee attack. These guys were either mercanaries or hillmen.
2. Archers: Pretty good. But all of the archer units need to have better range, as the Parthians and the Scythians had the best archers hand down.
3. Onagers No good. The Parthians were a steppe people, and really really were bad at seiging. Get rid of this unit.

We should also add peltlasts, which the Armenians and the Pontusians already have. Just give them that. Mabye we could have a mercanary archer unit, a hybrid like the Jannisaries (good ranged and good melee)

Mounted Archers
1. Horse Archers- Again, pajamitis. Loose the pajamas, give them no head gear and long flowing hair. Mabye their can be two units: One Iranian Nomad, and another a Lesser Parthian Noble.
2. Persian Cavalry: I guess this is like the Parthian Nobles? The need longer hair, and their outfits need to be not purple, and far more colorful.

We should add the Cataphract Archers, which Armenia already has. Also, split the Horse Archers into two or three catogories as suggested. The Lesser Parthian Noble could have better melee and better armour. Also, as another nomadic unit (which would be trainable, but cost more), can toss javilens.


Heavy Horse
1. Cataphracts: As for one type of Cataphracts, this is good. But they need to hold their kontus in two hands. However, there should be three different classes of Cataphracts: One that has the horses unarmored. These are poorer nobles, probably with scale armour for themselves. Another could be a fully armoured cataphract, but with scale armour on himself and his horse. This and the first class would make up the large number of cataphracts. The fewest number would be the current Cataphracts, as these represtent extremely rich nobles, and would be few in numbers.
2, Camel Cataphracts: Um... This might be okay if we just give the camel no armour, and mabye the rider scale armour.
3. War Elephants: These are fine, if they are Indian Elephants (which it's really easy to change it to).

Right, so there should be three classes of cataphracts, as opposed to the one right now.

Others
1. Early General: This is the javilen tossing, unarmoured early version. Um... I think that if we want to keep this guy in, give them armour on them... But I fail to see why a general would be decked out like this when he could be outfitted in a cataphract way. But whatever floats your boat.
2. Later General: These guys are Cataphracts. Mabye they could be like Siphie of the Porte, and in addition to their two handed kontus, also have compound bows? Either way, they would be the most expensive and current class of catas.

Mercanary units:
1. Bedoun Camel Archers: Not to sure.
2. Bedoun Warriors: Not to sure
3. Arab Cavalry: Not to sure.
I'm pretty sure most of the Parthian mercanaries were either light infantry, nomadic tribes from Iran, or Greeks. I don't think they would have recruited mercanary cavalry when their cavalry was far superior, but I'm not sure.

Right. Please nitpick, point out inaccuracies, point out impossibilities, and make your own suggestions.

[Stormy]

Good looking skins boys! its on the right path

Parthia needs help. I don't really like their faction color at all. It is like a hot pink/purple color hehe.

I agree with merc all the way. Merc does have many parthian pictures by Angus Mcbride that can be of some help. I will like to see those parthians with the round hat they have in Men-at-Arms * 175

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I would like to Take part in Gameplay testing, as i don't know much about modding but would like to help in some Way :-)

Added. Welcome...

[ick_of_pick]

I was not aware that the Gallic peoples had been in a civil war prior to the expansion of Caesars imperialism. This clarifies a lot for me and I will defenitely do a little more research on both sides of an argument before making a solid stand. Oh well, all the more to read about!

Aymar, I'm going to scan the army lists you asked for, because there is too much info for me to type. It should be done pretty soon though.

Ick

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Yes, same Psycho Aussie guy.

Thanks!!! That solves a bit my confusion!!! BTW, why the two names?

Well, began my first forays into skinning.

Played with those dam Night Raiders and got rid of those annoying Gallic traits. Can't do anything bout dem plats unfortunately.

Annoying Gallic traits? You mean the moustaches? This might sound stupid but, what do you mean by plats?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Right. Please nitpick, point out inaccuracies, point out impossibilities, and make your own suggestions.

HE!HE!HE! This is gonna be fun!!! ...............................

3. Onagers No good. The Parthians were a steppe people, and really really were bad at seiging. Get rid of this unit.

Then you won't be able to siege cities at all. Is that realistic? Were the Parthians that bad at sieging?

We should also add peltlasts, which the Armenians and the Pontusians already have. Just give them that. Mabye we could have a mercanary archer unit, a hybrid like the Jannisaries (good ranged and good melee)

Please, no invented units, ok?

As for the pajamas, we'll base ourselves in your posts at the EB Colosseum thread.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Aymar, I'm going to scan the army lists you asked for, because there is too much info for me to type. It should be done pretty soon though.

Great!!! Thanks!!!

[Vercingetorix]

Psycho I made a torc tell me if it's any good and if you want it and if so what format to send it to you? (max or cas)

[PSYCHO V]

Never cease to amaze mate! It's great to have your help.

Personally, I'd make the torcs a little conspicuous / larger / fatter / hang a little lower.. but great to see it done!! It's a pain in the a$$ to just skin them on and they look like sh8.

Ok, Lots of questions:

* Where are you up too and what are you working on? Been shadowing your every step both there and at the TWC. Your turning me into a stalker. Prob need to talk to recon as well.

* Are you planning on / have time to do, the majority of 3D work for the Gauls, Brits and Germans? Having never before done any 3D work, is it worth me delving in to give you a hand?

* I'd love to have it (torcs) but as mentioned, I haven't the 3D software (yet). Do I need the 3D stuff to use them? If so, do you want to knock out a warband unit and I’ll skin him for you.

* Minor point, but is it possible to have the duds gather at the ankles?

* Is it possible to replace the Gallic plats / braids with a pony tail for the German Night Raider?



Regards

[Vercingetorix]

Currently I'm not working on anything, need an assignment =). Some people catch on to 3d quite quickly, I've seen people who have never used 3ds max make simple models and edit within days. Others take months, and it takes years to master it.

Sure just tell me what you want and i'll pump out a warband for you, as for the "plats" I'm not too familer with this term. I'll see what I can do about making a ponytail.

edit: yes I'm Paul. I was thinking we need some form of realtime communication, an IRC channel maybe? I'm often on msn (pauldls at hotmail dot com) if you have msn add me.

[Antalis::]

Wow Vercingetorix you did a great job for the community with your 3D-max tool

I have respect for such a great work and effort.


cheers:

Antalis

[PSYCHO V]

Currently I'm not working on anything, need an assignment =). Some people catch on to 3d quite quickly, I've seen people who have never used 3ds max make simple models and edit within days. Others take months, and it takes years to master it.

Sure just tell me what you want and i'll pump out a warband for you, as for the "plats" I'm not too familer with this term. I'll see what I can do about making a ponytail.

edit: yes I'm Paul. I was thinking we need some form of realtime communication, an IRC channel maybe? I'm often on msn (pauldls at hotmail dot com) if you have msn add me.

Well, you guessed it, haven't used IRC before either . I'll d/l it.

Thanks, that would be great if you could do a warband guy. Same changes as mentioned above. Torc down to collarbone, duds that tapper at the ankles, maybe the shield made a little longer.

I might give the 3d stuff a go too but probably focus on the skinning considering you (and others) are obviously proficient in it's use.

I’ve noticed that my edited TGAs are coming out around 100-200k. The originals were 82K from memory. Will this be a prob. I am saving them as 32bit?

I'd like to see the Gallic skirmisher unit go. Is there anyway we can give the Warband the ability to throw and thrust with spear but charge with sword?

If your looking for a project, and your willing to work with this material, I persoanlly think the the Bodubatae (‘Raven Warriors’) unit would be the coup de grace for Celtic modding

Bodubatae (‘Raven Warriors’) : (Elite Medium Infantry)

Excellent Discipline, Good Valour, Good Stamina, High Morale,
(Bronze Raven helmet, long hair, Gallic moustache, golden torque, golden armlets, bronze armbands, long sleeve shirt with bronze cuirass, red tartan trousers to ankles, cloak in 'faction colours’ fastened with large golden broach on right shoulder, short boots, long thrusting spear, long Celtic sword, Oval Shield).
The Aedui ‘Bodubatae'are a Royal Body Guard, an elite infantry unit made up from the best warriors of the Aedui confederacy. They invoke the Female War Goddess Morrigan (Who was believed to take the form of a Raven to steal away men’s souls, hence the helmet). Their role, similar to the Roman Praetorian Guard, is to serve the highest office in the land, the Gallic High King. Well trained, drilled and disciplined they are expensive and difficult to raise but make up for their small numbers by their impact in battle. They can form a testudo, shield wall or a phalanx with their long spears.
(Can be raised from Aedui Territory)

Either that, or see if you can remodel the standard bearer to carry a boar standard and be a similar model to the warband but with cloak (fastened on right and helmet) …and the unit commanders with Boar helmets and…

…but now I’m just getting carried away

[Ranika]

For colors on Celtic units, there are specific coloring principles to apply. A general rule of thumb is that nobility (so, any 'elite' or 'superior' units, probably), use 'dark' colors, and non-nobles use 'light' colors. Dark blue and red, gold-yellow, black, and white (clearly not part of the rule), are used more by nobles. Light blue and red, gray, brown, and green was used for non-nobles. Mind you, this is only the Iberian-Gaelic color system, though it's noted in two places ('ll try and rummage them up) that Caledonians (and presumably other Britons) used a similar system, and the Gaels, being Iberian and Gaul in origin, used the Iberian system, but the Gauls presumably used a similar system (while not ALWAYS present, certain colors do seem to appear more frequently with nobility, particularly yellows and reds, and some more frequently with the non-nobles.

Also, while the cloaks are noted as being worn by many Gallic warriors, most of them also took them off before a fight. However, there were clear exceptions. Particularly, the early Gaelic ulanacht (Cloakman), and some northern Gallic swordsmen, who both used heavy, full cloaks as a type of defense, by pulling and flaring it in front of them to blind an enemy, while they would stab for the stomach, or neck. The Gaels were well trained in that, those were generally very experienced warriors who trained especially in using cloaks as defense, I'm not certain about the Gauls though, as by some accounts, they were fairly numerous, but then, they could have been a remainder of the Gallic warrior class in the north. I'm not certain if cloaks were used in a similar manner by the southern Gauls, though there were some accounts of it, and numerous gravesites have the heavier cloaks, but it could've also been northern warriors who'd gone to the south to fight.

[khelvan]

Tonight we distributed 0.10, the alpha build of Europa Barbarorum. I hope you are all as excited about this as I am! If you did not receive a PM from me, you were not on the testing list. If you wish to be, please let myself or Aymar know, and we will contact you. Please note that this build is all about gameplay tweaks; unit changes and new units will be added in later builds.

As you know, testing is not all fun and games. In order to ensure that your testing is valuable to the EB effort, I have a list of areas that need the most feedback. If possible, please record even the most silly of thoughts regarding *each* point while you test. Trust me when I say that all feedback is valuable.

-Battle map: Please let us know how the changes to unit defense and movement play out on the battlefield. Pay special attention to the movement and kill rates, how these changes affect morale and missle combat, and whether or not cavalry needs to be changed (either charge bonus, or bonus for spear weilders vs. cavalry). Also, see if the reduction in movement speed makes units tire too easily now (they tire at the same rate but move slower).

-Naval combat: Is the combat now appropriately lethal? Too lethal?

-Population growth: How do these changes play out? Are tweaks to the economic system needed? (too much cash flowing about?)

-Marian reform: I forgot to note new Imperial Palace building requirements - scriptorium, army barracks, catapult range. Have these tweaks combined with the slower population growth pushed the Marian reforms back a sufficient amount?

-Strategic map: Many factions were tweaked in their initial holdings. Are they appropriately strong (or weak) now? Pay attention to the faction AI - are the historically aggressive factions aggressive in the game, and the meek ones meek?

As faction coordinators start coordinating work on individual factions, we'll be incorporating and asking for feedback on unit changes. For now all units have been affected by an equal amount, and we're just looking at the feel of battles.

Thanks!

-khel

[Dead Moroz]

I made new texture for Thracian warrior. I used this pic as prototype:

and this for shield design:


That's what I've done:






It's not finished, still making it better. What do you think about it? I'm not sure about shield.

[Catiline]

Looks good.

The shield is I think, anachronistic, the threacians in the period of RTW used the ocal shield rather than the crescent shaped pelts. That said the pelta looks good, I think the colours are just a bit too primary, dull them down a bit and it's llok great

[Ranika]

There are some later peltas, but it is true that they were essentially totally replaced by the oval shield. The later ones were maybe for a Thracian duelling tradition, or ceremonies perhaps? They were in very small numbers, so definitely not something used by a Thracian unit (which is really all that matters).

[reconspy]

That's looking nice Dead Moroz, well done.

1) I think you should use the shield from the first picture.
2) What's up with the face? Does he have a mask on?

[Ranika]

I think he was reproducing the facial shielding on the mask in the first picture, Thracian helmets, the higher quality ones at least, had an effigy of a man's beard, in metal, to cover the cheeks, chin, and upper lip, though perhaps add some designs to it? Maybe just rivets or some type of 'beard' design (though anything really intricate would really belong more to a noble)

[Dead Moroz]

That's looking nice Dead Moroz, well done.

1) I think you should use the shield from the first picture.
2) What's up with the face? Does he have a mask on?

1. Don't know how to do it. Need help.
2. I just used original CA's texture for mask. You think it's worth to make that imitation of moustache and beard?

[Ranika]

It'd look nice, though it'd probably be anachronistic, as such delicate work wouldn't be so common as to be used by whole units, but then, most didn't have swords to use either, so it can be assumed they could also afford the use of a finely crafted and decorated helmet.

[reconspy]

Here is version 2 of the Arverni Arjos I am working on. I am pretty much finished with it (read: I don't want to edit it anymore). I will put up a link for the dds and cas file for anyone else on the team who wants to play with it.

Thanks to everyone who suggested some changes (including Dead Moroz and PSCYHO V).

* make the torc bigger. I know the pic plays it down a bit but from archeological evidence we know they were very conspicuous.

I made it brighter to stand out a bit, but in terms of gameplay, the torc won't show because the neck area is just too small. You are more than welcome to edit it as you like though.

* Great Helm but squaring off the cheek guards would help a bit

Made it looked more like the source picture as you asked.

* Love the cloak, again great job there. Prob needs a nice bronze / golden broach on that shoulder if poss. and a little longer.

Made the cloak look like the source picture, added the golden broach, and made the cloak longer.

* 'Flesh out' the pants and shirt so as not to appear so tight

Made the pants more baggy.

* Give short boots

Done.

* Golden braclets

The texture resolution for the wrists is too small for anything to look decent. It can be done I suppose, but I'm not going to try. You are welcome to edit it though.

* make the Shield larger

Done, and made it more oval (Dead Moroz)

* Maybe make the pants a dark green tartan pattern to give a little faction colour.

This model is generic, so when we decide to add colours for different factions, that can be done quite easily.

* Would be good if possible, to reduce the flare of the shirt etc below the belt so that it's closer to the leg.

I don't understand.









DDS and CAS in ZIP format. Edit: Zip file updated with all 4 cas files (high, medium, low, lowest)
http://members.optushome.com.au/reco...erni_arjos.zip

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Currently I'm not working on anything, need an assignment =).

You don't? Well, I'm the one assigning jobs. Check the updated list above. I've divided the people working on the units and descriptions in different factions, according to personal interest. Please PM me if you would like to focus on a different faction. Each faction should have, ideally two or three persons per group. One of the persons of each faction group, must be the one that coordinates the unit work with the EB cargo donkey (that is, ME). I would prefer if you would do it by PM or MSN.

Warning: Take in to consideration that it is best not to start editing skins in PSP or retouching the 3d models in 3DS MAX, without having contacted the other members within each group and deciding what units to start modifying. If you don't coordinate your work amongst yourselves and me, we'll be wasting time and duplicating work.