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Thread: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

  1. #31
    Dungalloigh Brehonda Member Ranika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    As for correct names, then, if you wish lingually correct, it isn't Gallowglass. Gallowglass is actually Anglicized from Galloglaich, Galloglaidh, or Galloglahaidh. It means 'Foreign Warrior', but implies the warrior is of a Gaelic extension. Gallowglass were mercenaries, after all, from the Hebrides. The Scots employed them too, and so did the English from time to time.

    Even if the Irish are rebels, I'd like to see them with proper units, that'd be pleasing enough. And if ever some new factions could be added, and there were space, it'd be nice to see them added, but I know they wouldn't be near the top of the list, there are plenty of more important factions to be used before hand. A good thing, though, for many Irish units, is that they were mercenaries. Perhaps they could be implemented that way? The French and Spanish, as mentioned, used Irish soldiers (and commanders, to quite a good effect, especially against the English, as the Irish rather vehemently hated them), so having them hireable as mercs in Spain or France may be done? Or, alternatively, have ancillaries that the Spanish and French can get? Like an 'Irish retainer', who'd provide a command bonus against the English maybe? Or, maybe, at least, some Irish surnames for Spanish/French commanders, representing the presence of Irish nobles in their armies. I know it's all a nitpick, but it is a historically accurate nitpick.

    At the very least, I hope it can be made so 'rebels' appear often in Ireland, though I wish that could be based on the faction controlling it. The Irish were actually vaguelly willing to submit to a French king at one point, and were less rebellious under a Scottish ruler, but they rebelled nigh constantly under English rule. It's a pity that can't be simulated (at least, I don't think so).

    I'm also aware finding the proper names for types of Irish soldiers at the time is a severe pain. There is very little written about the various gunpowder units employed by the Irish. However, an interesting provinicial unit for whoever is in control of Ireland may be Enniskillen Fusiliers. They actually wore what was essentially a prototype bullet proof vest, made of leather, padding, a chain shirt, and then another layer of padding. Enniskillen is in Ulster, if there is more than one Irish province it should be confined to the north/eastern portion, if used, but it would be unique, rather than just another rifleman.

    My recommendations for what to use for the Irish rebels then, would probably be:
    Kerns, as they were the basic soldiers employed by the Irish

    Galloglaidh, I recommend this spelling only because it's from my dialect, any of the others would be fine, but for lingual correctness, I'd not use Gallowglass. They'll also do the work of the Claghcach I noted, I'd also have them available as mercenaries in Ireland, Scotland, and England

    Hobilars, basic cavalry of the Irish in this period, but not light cavalry, that's a mistake. They rode ponies, but were well armored and well trained. They throw javelins before charging with their lance.

    Taghhoba, mounted riflemen, also on hobby ponies, wearing padding, with an iron helmet

    Oaghancocharan, actually, maybe as mercs, the Spanish and French used them to ambush enemies in forests, as they were used to hiding in trees for days at a time, and excellent marksmen, they would would be a threat to British patrols until the Irish free state came about, Michael Collins actually recruited some of them (since they operated, largely indepedent of any resistance movements, they just hated the British, one of them is actually likely who killed Collins).

    Omacach, just because they seem unique, I've not heard of many similar types of soldiers, and they were responsible for maintaining the indepence of a few of the aforementioned pockets, from British rule. Pretty efficient soldiers at the time, since their shields could stop a musket ball, they had good sword fighting skills, and their pistol would loosen up the enemy formation before their charge. The areas that employed them ended up being largely ignored, because, in a victory over them, at the period, you were almost guaranteed a great deal of casualties, and that was just not worth it most of the time.

    Also, include the Taghcach, just Irish musketeers, and Raohcach, the Irish fusiliers. Nothing particularly special or different about them, just reskinned, or made into mercenaries, but important to note is Irish clothing, they wore long shirts that stopped at the knee, called a leine, the same clothing they had for over a millenium, by this time, the more advanced soldiers (such as Galloglaidh and Hobilar) wore cloaks and capes, as well as trews, checkered pants, or chainmaille leggings (if they wore chain). The Irish still used war cries (and some units in the Irish Army today are still taught them, proper stances for shouting them, etc., but that's a tradition thing). If recording new sounds, and wanting to use a war cry or two, some common ones by this point included the famous 'Eireann Go Bragh' (shouted at the top of their lungs, this was used by just about any Irish soldiers, including those in the service of other nations), 'Bas och náire' = 'Death and disgrace', was popular with guerillas who would scream it at foreign enemies.

    I'm aware not all, or even most of these suggestions and this information will/can be used, but I hope enough of it can be used, and that it is helpful. I'm aware there are many constraints, and so I hardly expect all or most of it, but I hope this helps.
    Ní dheachaigh fial ariamh go hIfreann.


  2. #32
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Great stuff Ranika!

    Army today are still taught them, proper stances for shouting them, etc., but that's a tradition thing


    Really? Talk about modernization.....
    I imagine is something of the type of the Haka the New Zealand rugby players perform before their games....
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  3. #33
    Dungalloigh Brehonda Member Ranika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    'War cries' are still taught in many armies as a manner of 'pumping up', such as United States Marines shouting 'Hoorah', and similar things. The Irish army has similar things, except they're based on old cries. It has nothing to do with modernization, the Irish military is as modernized as it can afford to be, and is little different than the British military, which is quite modern. War cries and shouts are used though as a method to get the andrenaline pumping while training and the like, but not used in actual warfare, generally.

    Of proper names for Irish units, the one real problem with finding 'proper' names for Irish soldiers is the variety of dialects in Irish, and how drastically different some are, such as An Mhumain being almost an entirely different language than Connachta or Ulaidi, plus the names not being from the modern Irish, which has changed a lot in the last 300 or so years in many places.
    Last edited by Ranika; 11-24-2004 at 07:22.
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  4. #34
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    On Provinces:

    The new RTW engine allow more flexibility in this aspect, and the spanish provinces of the XVI cent are wuite different from the roman ones, so here is the list:

    -Castilla central province, capital: Madrid (replaces Numantia) in the later campaign after 1560, Toledo before 1560 approx. Very slow pop growth in cities, decent farming income, mines, the richest of all spanish cathedrals (i.e. Very good money from tributes, little trading upgrade, mines, farming upgrades, poor pop. growth).

    - Andalucia capital, Sevilla, replaces Corduba. Good pop growth, sensible unrest, poor tax collection, can build the "Torre del Oro" building that allows trade with America. HUGE trading income, good farming lands.

    - Valencia: capital, Valencia (replaces Carthage Nova). Good farming, average pop growth, decent trade income, high unrest.

    - Aragon: capital Barcelona, VERY POOR pop growth, good trade income, mines, high unrest, average farming.

    - Navarre: Capital: Pamplona (replaces Asturica), good pop growth, high unrest, poor trade income, mines, poor farming.

    - Sicily: Im not too sure if we should make this one a single province. If so, the capital should be Palermo, if not, let me know and i´ll do some more research.

    - Granada:capital:Granada low pop growth, mines, easy defence (mountain passes), good farming, poor sea trade (except with morocco). average rebelliousness. (should have the culture penalty no matter what)

    - Naples: Same as for Sicily, but Capital: Naples.

    - N. Africa. This is a tricky one: the sapnish controlled a few cities in N. Africa, but I dont know if that is enough as to make it a province belonging to Spain. You decide.



    General considerations: the "Torre del Oro" was the buiding where all the gold from America was stored before being distributed among the different places. The buildng is in every postcard of Sevilla so it shouldnt be too hard to find. Anyway I can send it by email. I was thinking that maybe this one could be one of the "wonders" in this period. And give to whoever controls it a bonus similar to the Colossus of Rhodes. Or even bigger as it was the only spanish port allowed to trade with America.

    Any thoughts?

    Edit for Granada.
    Last edited by SwordsMaster; 11-24-2004 at 14:59. Reason: Forgot about Granada ~D
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  5. #35
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    @Ranika

    Great info, very useful.

    Soon we will have our own forum to prepare both mods ( for MTW and RTW).

    I will use some of your ides for MTW P&M TW edition as well.

    I will need singular and plural forms of the names.

    Please post them as soon as possible.


    Regards Cegorach/Hetman

  6. #36
    Dungalloigh Brehonda Member Ranika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Singular and plural are the same name for most of them, it's context specific. Cach in this period is alternatively 'man' or 'men', depending on how a sentence is worded. So, a Roahcach is a single Irish fusilier, but a unit of Roahcach is many fusiliers. However, there are some changes:

    Taghhoba, plural; Taghhobalairdh, singular
    Galloglaidh, plural; Galloglaidhael, singular
    Oaghancochoran, plural; Cochorancach, singular (Singular is literally 'Cochoran man', a man of the Cochoran clan)
    Hobilar, plural; Hobilairdh, singular; Hobilars, plural Anglicized
    Kernbannal, plural (literally 'Soldier Band' in this period); Kern, singular; Kerns, plural Anglicized

    Irish retainers were called Cómhalta (loosely 'foster-brother'), Caraid (literally 'friend'), or Oscar (loosely 'great champion'), in Irish, and used Irish names and titles, even when in French or Spanish service, so, if there were an Irish retainer ancillary, the proper name would be either Cómhalta or Caraid or Oscar.
    Ní dheachaigh fial ariamh go hIfreann.


  7. #37
    Aktacy Bei Member Eastside Character's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Hello the peoples of The Pike&Musket Mod for RTW!!!

    That dude back again?
    I haven't been here for a while and I suppose some of you might have wondered why haven't I sent you the promised files. Well, believe it or not i had it deleted because of the problems with some bugs and viruses. To say more, all of my modding resources have been deleted, all the work in progress, plus my own project that I was slowly but surely developing... After that I was mad and frustrated and didn't to go back to modding MTW. The fast I was working two jobs from some time was important too. Then I bought a copy of RTW and couldn't stop playing it! The game amazed me, it was all I was waiting for! Only lately I decided to try to mod it. I visited the Org to see what's up and how people are modding RTW. What I learned amazed me even more than the game itself... And so I started modding RTW rather than playing it, and I'm now redoing the map.

    So now, in this long post, you are at the point where I'm about to say the things that really matter.

    MAP
    If you have no map done yet, I offer my help. I know how to change and I'm actually working on the map for some couple of days now. I have relocated and renamed some of the existing regions and made some new ones.
    I would very much like to show you some screens, but unfortunatelly (however silly it sounds) I don't know how to make screenshots in RTW! Please, somebody if you could tell me I'd appreciate that a lot! I have a program for making shots, but it doesn't seem to work with RTW, I don't know why.

    Also, if you would like me to make this map, I would need some info on certain regions in Europe that I'm not sure what provinces to place there, how to name them, what should be their capitals etc. So in general probably many people would be involved in the map-making process (there can be up to 200 regions so you don't have to worry about to few of them).

    However, if you are already developing a campaign map, I think I could help in other ares too. I have some ideas I think could be discussed.

    WONDERING
    RTW gives different opportunities than MTW, but also has different restrictions. This means tech trees, unit stats, diplomacy and many other elements of the mod have to be not simply transfered from MTW to RTW, but rather have to be signifficantly modified to fit the new rules.

    SENAT = PAPACY?
    One of my ideas (though perhaps not the best one) is to leave the 3 allied states (called factions "X" later) and the Senate (as the Papacy). The 3 allied states would have to be catholic powers of the times, I would suggest Spain, Austria and Poland. Also the Senate could roleplay the Pope I think. The only problem is whether it is clear how it works. My theory is that the Senate (called "S" from this point) sends a request to attack a province it recognises as the weakest a faction (it's sending its request to) has acces to. So generally speaking "S" wants a faction "X" to attack its weakest neighboring region. If my theory is wrong and the regions appointed by "S" are somehow hardcoded, then there always have to be made map changes, relocating the hardcoded regions to desider paleces.
    As for making Spain, Austria and Poland permanent allies (although as you know later they would be able to fight among themselves) is sensible because:
    - Spain and Austria used to be ruled by the same Habsburg dynasty;
    - the three mentioned countries were catholic (though there were peoples of other religions in Poland and HRE, the rulling classes and rulers were predominantly catholic);
    - in the late XVII century the Papacy called for the creation of The Holy League that was meant to fight with the Ottomans. HRE and Poland, as well as some other countries were members of this league, moreover they were the most signifficant members of that organization and constantly fought with the Ottomans.

    What do you think about it?

    Well and about all those other things too...

    And once again: ? HOW TO MAKE SCREEN SHOTS IN RTW ?

    Regards,
    EC

  8. #38
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Hey EC! Welcome back m8!

    To make screenshots go to the game menu, then in the keyboard configuration there is a key designed for making screenshots. Change it if you want. The images will appear at your RTW/tgas folder.

    If for some reason that doesnt work just use the Print screen key, ALT+TAB out of the game, paste the image in an image editor and ALT+TAB back in.

    About the Papacy:

    I think that if Spain, HRE and Poland are allied, being as they are the biggest factions around at the time, they would crush to pieces anybody else as soon as the Pope points a finger on him (missions) because of the 3vs1 thing. (Remember in the game, when one roman faction declares war on someone all 4 of them declare war on that faction?)

    So In the end invariably Spain, HRE and Poland will be THE 3 factions left with everybody else pretty much annihilated.

    What I think could be a good Idea is to make the pope rule over the Knigh orders (credit here is to the Cidatel TW guys its their idea). Although I dont think we'll be concentrating on the knight orders as there are many more important factions....

    On the other hand the Catholic League would allow for a much more challenging end-of-game period...
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  9. #39
    Aktacy Bei Member Eastside Character's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Thanks for the information on screenshots SwordsMaster! I got it working at last!
    Here you can see a sneak preview of what I'm doing with map. Not surprisingly I started with my homeland, though I've already made also some Italian, German and a few eastern regions.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
    About the Papacy:

    I think that if Spain, HRE and Poland are allied, being as they are the biggest factions around at the time, they would crush to pieces anybody else as soon as the Pope points a finger on him (missions) because of the 3vs1 thing. (Remember in the game, when one roman faction declares war on someone all 4 of them declare war on that faction?)

    So In the end invariably Spain, HRE and Poland will be THE 3 factions left with everybody else pretty much annihilated.

    What I think could be a good Idea is to make the pope rule over the Knigh orders (credit here is to the Cidatel TW guys its their idea). Although I dont think we'll be concentrating on the knight orders as there are many more important factions....

    On the other hand the Catholic League would allow for a much more challenging end-of-game period...
    I know my idea is not perfect, but I'm only hoping we won't have to leave any factions not used in this RTW mod.

    The fact that the 3 allies would be very strong could be counterwighted by many factors I think. First, the Ottomand would control about half of the map. Secondly, I believe that if properly balanced, countries such as France, Netherlands, German States, Russia, Sweden and so on, the 3 allied countries wouldn't be that powerfull. The Poles for instance would be surrounded mostly by hostile territories. The same can be said about the Spanish. The HRE seems to be in the relatively safest position, though the Ottoman presence in Hungary would be a major threat. Also there would be no rewards for papacy missions, and that money means a lot.

    Anyway if not those 3 countries, then which ones?

    Regards,
    EC

  10. #40
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Good to see you EC !

    I hope this time your troubles are over and we will see you to the very end of this work.

    @Ranika

    Very good. I will implement the names in the MTW edition and we will use this for RTW as well.

    regards Cegorach/Hetman

    P.S> EC please contact me by e-mail cegorach77@o2.pl

  11. #41
    Dungalloigh Brehonda Member Ranika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    If I can ask, what exactly are you going to be using of the information I gave you? I will try to dig up similar information, so as to be more effective in giving you useful things, rather than offering a wide array of things you won't use. What units and such do you plan to use/how will they be implemented/etc.?
    Ní dheachaigh fial ariamh go hIfreann.


  12. #42
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Anyway if not those 3 countries, then which ones?

    I was thinking... Is it a must to have 4 allied countries being one of them the Senate? Can't we have a Senate+1 country? This way the missions would still be triggered and there would still be civil war at the end (you vs the Senate).

    We could make the Papacy allied with Spain as it actually happened, and leave everyone else to minding their own businesses.

    See, the HRE has the greatest pools of mercenaries and quite good lands, Poland has the best in game cavalry and Spain the best infantry until the very end of the period. And that is historically correct. So we can't just take and give some uber-musketeers to Netherlands to keep the Spanish at bay. Although we could give the "neighbours" more money to start with.... Dunno...

    And about the mission rewards.... I was thinking that maybe some diplomatic units as rewards could be in place (inquisitors and such)

    a sneak preview of what I'm doing with map. Not surprisingly I started with my homeland, though I've already made also some Italian, German and a few eastern regions.
    Great work EC, looks very promising!
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  13. #43
    Member Member Speiz_Bankurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Cegorach,
    I'm trying to get you some info but it is a little hard to find anything accurate and in depth. We'll get back to you soon.

  14. #44
    Aktacy Bei Member Eastside Character's Avatar
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    Question Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Well SwordsMaster you're probably right. I was only hoping we could use all the factions available.

    Also I have a question that is not related to the topic here but I don't want to start another thread for such a minor (I hope) issue: how to change faction's colors?

    Having the Spanish allied with Pope is not a bad idea.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    I have another idea tho: how about getting rid of Senate-Papacy and have the 3 allied countries as follows: England, Netherlands and Sweden (or some other protestant country). What do you think.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    I'm just trying to discuss all possibilities before we decide not to use some factions, which, given the number of factions we can use in general, is a very important gameplay issue I think.

    As far as the map is coming along, I'd need some good info on german provinces. Now I only have: Brandenburg, Electorate of Saxony, Silesia, Pomerania, Mecklenburg; I know there will have to be Bavaria, Hanover, Palatinate, but the rest is unclear to me. I need some good maps of that area. Can anyone help?

    Regards,
    EC

  15. #45
    Wandering Historian Member eadingas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Quote Originally Posted by Sad Ronin
    to RUSSIA:
    Pososhnaja Rat' - Auxiliary armies similar on Opolcheniye
    "Vybranniye Soldaty"= Polk Novogo Stroja? (New Order Regiment?)


    to MERCENARIES
    where Scottish mercenaries?
    Cossacks too often acted in a role of the mercenaries in many armies of many countries

    to Poland
    Panc³rn³e kozaki?
    Pospolitoe Rushenie ?
    Ekhem... just popping in to note that we're NOT RUSSIANS :) Please don't use russian grammar endings ;)
    Neither did we use any 'armored cossacks' whatever you might mean :)

    "Pospolite Ruszenie" is not really a type of unit but type of recruitment - recruiting noblemen to fight. It can be simulated by a unit of simple light infantry armed with sabres, but there were all sorts of soldiers fighting in Pospolite Ruszenie, including heavy cavalry. There were two types of recruitment in Poland: Royal Army - better equipped and trained, but very expensive, and Pospolite Ruszenie - volunteers, cheap and poor. Plus some ethnic mercenaries, like Tatars and Cossacks, and king's mercenaries brought from abroad - Hungarian and German infantry.

    General Bodyguards should be dragoon-type cavalry, called Rajtar (Ritter). They were very rare in this time, and only in royal army. Armored with two pistols. There were also some arquebusiers and musketeers, but only as experiment. Another experimental unit were 'polish arquebusiers' - sort of early Self-Propelled Artillery ;) - heavily armored riders carrying all sorts of heavy firearms - for example, four pistols, musket and rusznica per one rider.
    Remember that polish army relies almost solely on heavy and auxilia cavalry... and at the time, it was without, a doubt the best, cavalry in Europe. But the infantry was a laugh.

    As for the 'Catholic League' alliance - NOT a good idea. Not for that period. Not with Poland in it. We took no part in the religious wars, and there were times we were even allied with Turkey...

    Cheers.
    Last edited by eadingas; 11-26-2004 at 17:28.
    I'm still not here

  16. #46
    Aktacy Bei Member Eastside Character's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Quote Originally Posted by eadingas
    As for the 'Catholic League' alliance - NOT a good idea. Not for that period. Not with Poland in it. We took no part in the religious wars, and there were times we were even allied with Turkey...
    Yes, I've already realised my "Catholic League" idea was not a good one. And speaking "we" who do you have in mind? The Polish?

    As for Pospolite Ruszenie, I think that "Szlachta" unit is enough to resemble it.

    One more thing to all the people on the team: don't you think this Mod could use a separate sub-forum here at the Org? Just as other big projects? I think it would make things easier, especially as more and more people are being involved in it. Cegorach and others, what do you think?

    Regards,
    EC

  17. #47

    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    You forgot Prussia as a faction.

  18. #48
    Wandering Historian Member eadingas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Why not make Rome = HRE? With Austria, Czechy, Saxonia and Brandenburgia/Prussy. Then you could have 30-years war as Civil War.
    I'm still not here

  19. #49
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    @Eadingas

    I am really well informed when it comes to the armies of that time - see P&M TW for MTW. Thank you.

    @EC

    We will have our own forum and webside, so subforum isn't really necessary.

    regards Cegorach/Hetman

  20. #50
    Wandering Historian Member eadingas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Cegorach: Yeah, I noticed that after I posted. I edited out most of my remarks after that :)
    I'm still not here

  21. #51
    Aktacy Bei Member Eastside Character's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Hello everyone!

    I'm adding more and more regions to the map, but I still have a problem with Germany. The provinces I added since you saw the polish screens are:
    - name of a province (settlement)
    ---------------------------------
    - Electorate of Hanover (Hanover)
    - East Friesland (Bremen)
    - Mecklenburg (Lubeck)
    - Bavaria (Munich)
    - Bohemia (Prague)
    - Moravia (Brno)
    - Bishopric of Liege (Liege)
    - Netherlands (Amsterdam)
    - Brabant (Brussels)
    - Flanders (Ghent)
    - Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (Luxembourg)
    - Switzerland (Bern)
    - Austria (Vienna)
    - Royal Hungary (Presburg)
    (if any of the above names are incorrect or you know any alternative names you think suit better, post here)

    I know Netherlands should be divided but I don't know how exactly? Also I have a problem to decide what should be other german regions. If anyone could post a useful link to some good map, please do so.

    Also to anyone: we can have up to 200 regions maximum, so we can brainstorm here what provinces should be included. I think we can be all very glad there can be so many regions, it don't really have to be 200 of them tho. Can be less. Anyway if anyone has any ideas about what regions should be included, don't hesitate to post it here.

    Oh, almost forgot, have there been made any decisions about which RTW faction slots will the P&M factions use? Or can we still discuss it?

    Regards,
    EC

    Last edited by Eastside Character; 11-28-2004 at 12:14.

  22. #52

    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastside Character
    Hello everyone!

    I'm adding more and more regions to the map, but I still have a problem with Germany. The provinces I added since you saw the polish screens are:
    - name of a province (settlement)
    ---------------------------------
    - Electorate of Hanover (Hanover)
    - East Friesland (Bremen)
    - Mecklenburg (Lubeck)
    - Bavaria (Munich)
    - Bohemia (Prague)
    - Moravia (Brno)
    - Bishopric of Liege (Liege)
    - Netherlands (Amsterdam)
    - Brabant (Brussels)
    - Flanders (Ghent)
    - Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (Luxembourg)
    - Switzerland (Bern)
    - Austria (Vienna)
    - Royal Hungary (Pesbourg)
    (if any of the above names are incorrect or you know any alternative names you think suit better, post here)

    I know Netherlands should be divided but I don't know how exactly? Also I have a problem to decide what should be other german regions. If anyone could post a useful link to some good map, please do so.

    Also to anyone: we can have up to 200 regions maximum, so we can brainstorm here what provinces should be included. I think we can be all very glad there can be so many regions, it don't really have to be 200 of them tho. Can be less. Anyway if anyone has any ideas about what regions should be included, don't hesitate to post it here.

    Oh, almost forgot, have there been made any decisions about which RTW faction slots will the P&M factions use? Or can we still discuss it?

    Regards,
    EC

    Quick google search:






  23. #53
    Aktacy Bei Member Eastside Character's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    These maps are from a later period...

  24. #54

    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastside Character
    These maps are from a later period...
    Are they? :o Sorry, I must not be familiar with that period then.

  25. #55
    Wandering Historian Member eadingas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    How about dividing Helvetia in three parts - french, german and italian-speaking. This way Swiss have better chance of defending themselves.
    I'm still not here

  26. #56
    Aktacy Bei Member Eastside Character's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Well eadingas, I'm not sure if there even will be a Swiss faction (as we have that nasty 21f limit). Besides dividing Switzerland is a bit problematic - most of it are high mountains and there isn't much space for settlements, roads etc.

    Last added:
    Lombardy (Milan)
    Tuscany (Florence)
    Savoy (Turin)
    Liguria (Genoa)
    Transylvania (Nagyszeben)
    Wurtemberg (Stuttgart)
    Franche Comte (Besancon)
    Venezzo (Venice)
    Corsica (???)

    red font indicates I'm not sure if the name is correct

    I was thinking about the 3 allied factions again... I came up with the Dutch, English and ... Hungarians (all 3 protestant). There would be no Senate/Pope thingy, the Dutch and the English would cooperate, as they really did, and the Hungarians would be away enough that it would only be a formal issue that they'd be allied with the other two. Besides the Dutch fought against the Spanish, and as I remember the English didn't like the Spaniards either (Spanish Armada Defiance). What do you think people? Any flaws of this idea? I think we must use those 3 allied factions somehow, the only question would be which factions should it be.

    Regards,
    EC

  27. #57
    Member Member wilpuri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Are you sure the Hungarians were protestant back then? Most of Hungarians are Catholic in modern times at least.

  28. #58
    Aktacy Bei Member Eastside Character's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    I'm not sure. But well, if you don't like Hungarians then the 3rd protestant faction could be Brandenburg or Sweden perhaps. And I don't think the Alliance England-Netherlands-Sweden would dominate the game. Out of these three, Sweden would probably be the most powerfull. The Dutch, a small faction in conflict with the Spanish Empire, would be the weakest.
    English would be a kind of a medium strenght faction.

    Regards,
    EC

  29. #59
    Aktacy Bei Member Eastside Character's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Another idea that just popped into my mind is an alliance Turkey-Crimean Tatars-Moldavia, as it really was. The Ottoman Empire had Crimea and Moldavia as vassal states, but they could have their own rulers, armies etc. In returned Sultan had the right to use his vassals' armies whenever he wished. However it happened sometimes the vassals denied to give their armies under Sultan's command. There were several such rebellions almost always leading to Turkish invasions. It aslo often happened that the vassals, formally obliged not to violate Turkish foreign policy, attacked countries connected with the Ottomans by treaties. Khans of Crimea were very often acting in that way, causing Turkey to be several times involved in conflicts it didn't wanted.

    just ideas...

    Regards,
    EC

  30. #60
    Grand Dude Member Dead Moroz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

    Quote Originally Posted by eadingas
    Why not make Rome = HRE? With Austria, Czechy, Saxonia and Brandenburgia/Prussy. Then you could have 30-years war as Civil War.
    Sounds good. I think it's the most logical and reasonable idea about "ex-Roman" system. Because HRE was like RTW's Romans: it consisted of semi-independent states under leadership of Emperor (Senate in RTW). Plus, real HRE represented itself as continuation of Roman Empire.

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