Senate missions - negotiating a protectorate

[RollingWave]

Protectrate seems like a thing in the game that helps you to finish the game quicker, however it has some weird behaviours that often don't make sense.

[Divinus Arma]

[QUOTE=Epistolary Richard]
1) reducing a stack inside a town without taking the town?
3) arranging a ceasefire between two other factions?
4) improving my standing with the Armenians whilst still being at war?
[QUOTE]

I found the following two-step method of reducing a stack in a town to be useful:

1. Besiege. For as long as you are willing to wait. When the town is a turn or two from sallying or falling, lift the siege. Then siege again. Repeat as necessary.

2. While besieging, when you have the expendable resources, send in suicide squads to reduce the military population with futile assaults.

To provide an example: I wanted Gaul as a Protectorate and they were down to one city with a full stack and one loose general with no army. The faction leader was inside the city. I besieged the city and bribed the loose general. On my very next turn, I used the bribed general to hire several mercenaries, mostly warband and spanish precursers to Roman Legionaires. I also equipped the bribed general with one unit of seige equipment (a balista if I recall correctly). Using this newly formed army as a suicide squad, I besieged the city and immediately assaulted without waiting to build battering rams.

The objective of the bribed/mercenary suicide army was simple. Kill and die and avoid killing Gaul's general in the city (because if the faction leader died, then good bye Gaul). The suicide army killed half the enemy army and were destroyed in the process. Anytime a Gaul general would throw himself at my suicide army, I would undermine my army by making them run and fight a different unit of Gaul or by clicking "route" if absolutely necessary.

Yes, I lost the battle. But sometimes when you lose, you win. Their stack was cut in half. At the conclusion of the battle, I was able to turn Gaul into a protectorate by offering them one of their conquered territories back as well as a little cash.

As for your other questions, I have no clue.

Regards.

[mrdarklight]

---so if lower officials are killed somehow, say in a freak gardening accident---

The authorities said it's best just to leave it unsolved.

[brutii_warrior]

has anyone ever gained a protectorate as the romans?

i'm thinking that maybe the romans can't take protectorates but could become protectorates.

what do you guys think?

[Dutch_guy]

I've had the Macedonians and Egyptians as protectorates as the Brutii( egypt in 1.1 for map information ) so it is definatley possible, also I've seen the AI Julii have Gaul as protectorate and thus not expanding, so yes Brutii_Warrior it's possible

[Malrubius]

has anyone ever gained a protectorate as the romans?

Just today I finished a 1.2 campaign as the Julii with several protectorates. The Britons became my protectorate after I took Londoninium and gave them a few thousand denarii. The Celtiberians accepted my offer of protection and 710 denarii after defeating them in a couple of major battles, even though I was outnumbered and surrounded on the peninsula. But I couldn't get the Gauls to accept because they wanted 4 provinces I took from them, and would take nothing else. The Greeks would refuse unless I gave Greece back to them (all they had left was Syracuse).

Today was the most unusual. With 48 provinces under my control, and 3 spies in Rome, Flavius the Cunning (my original faction leader, 68 years old and wanting to claim the title 'Imperator' before he died) and his son Quintus the Attacker led a small force to Rome, leaving most of the army behind to defend Ariminium from a substantial SPQR force just outside the city (but not beseiging--just biding their time until I became outlawed, I suppose).

My spies had a ~50% chance to open the gates, but failed, so Flavius was left between Rome and a huge army within striking distance, and was suddenly outlawed and at war with SPQR, Brutii, and Scipii, who outnumbered me greatly on the Italian peninsula. What to do in this situation but apply diplomacy?

Two of my top diplomats obtained ceasefires from the Brutii and Scipii, who grumbled but acknowledged my superior might. Then I approached the SPQR stack outside Ariminium and got them to accept Protectorate status right away. This put me back in the good graces of the Senate, at least as high as the other two factions, and they gave me another mission.

I conquered a province from the Seluecids, to get me to the magic 50 number. But I did not own Rome, so no victory march. The Senate disbanded their big stack outside Ariminium (kind of disappointing, since I was looking forward to a big fight with them) and sent most of their army in Rome towards the east, leaving only a general in Latium, who fell pretty quickly once I attacked Rome. Got the victory march this time.


This campaign also saw the Brutii lay seige to Thessalonica an uncountable number of times (because I would play an hour, save, shut off the game, and come back the next day or so to play another hour).

[General Carnage]

Protectorates are almost as buggy as Testudo.

[The Stranger]

are you using 1.2 patch

[brutii_warrior]

dude do you not like testudo?

cuz i think it's awsome. it's a nice addition to rome and that's part of the reason why rome is better (in my opion) than medieval totlawar.

[WesW]

After receiving a mission to make Macedon a protectorate, I sent a diplomat to their only remaining city, only to find that there was no option available for proposing or demanding a protectorate. What do I need to do?
Everything here deals with gaining acceptance of the proposal, not how to make the option itself appear.

Thanks for your help, guys.

[Malrubius]

After receiving a mission to make Macedon a protectorate, I sent a diplomat to their only remaining city, only to find that there was no option available for proposing or demanding a protectorate. What do I need to do?
Everything here deals with gaining acceptance of the proposal, not how to make the option itself appear.

If you're at war with them, that should be enough to get the option. It will be last on the list of demands: "Become Protectorate".

[sheelba]

I never managed to gain a protectorate before the new patch. Since then it has all been different. Playing the Carthaginians, I payed no attention to Iberia at first. The Gauls then attacked me at sea and I sank all of his fleets in the next three turns. I then sent a diplomat and they became my protectorate. I then marched an army into Spanish lands, distroyed one spanish army and they became my protectorate.

Playing the Brutti, I fought three land engagements against the Macedonians. All on the Adriatic coast. They then became my protectorate.

I have found protecting my allies, to be the most challenging part of a game. When your nearst city is Cordoba and the Britons are besieging Narbo, then you have to move fast and hard to save your Gallic allies.

Like many others, I find that powers who have been beaten badly, lost many provinces to you and been humiliated in the field would rather die than surrender. My stategy for gain protectorates relies on making alliances with other powers soas to split them from my enemy. If I beat someone a few times and I am part of a league of allies aligned against that power, or if another big power declares war against them they are likely to agree.

As to money, I have found it a very enriching experience to have protectorates. I lost 20,000 p.a. when the Senate declared war on another protectorate who I sided with. However, this fluctuates, and sometimes I am bleeding to death. If you want to make money from you protectorates, I would say protect them.

I once contrlled 27 provinces but only ruled 8! This allows new gaols and plans. Now I want to rule the world. But I dont care how long it takes. I want to see how few provinces I can do it with.

[saddletank]

I'm at war with my own protectorate.

I am playing the Julii campaign and it's 186bc, v1.2. I have defeated the Gauls, Britons, part of Germania and Iberia and have moved down into Numidia. I have 32 provinces. This has brought me into contact with the Scipii who have taken Carthage. About 3 years ago the Senate outlawed me, then in the next 2 turns they went completely barking and outlawed both the other Roman families as well :) So technically all 4 Roman factions were at war with the other three :) :).

I took Rome about 2 years ago, and caught those nutty old senators just in time before they lost it completely and outlawed everybody on the planet. I attacked and defeated 2 large Scipii armies outside Carthage. I then offered the Scipii protectorate status which they accepted and my number of provinces jumped to 40. However the very next turn (last turn) the Scipii attacked me again, and I have counterattacked this turn. I am blockading all their ports and have spies and assassins causing mayhem in their 3 North African cities so they must be hurting financially but they are still my protectorate. I did a savegame and then sent a diplomat and offered a ceasefire. They accepted but I lost protectorate status over them. I'd rather stay at war with them and retain ownership of their 8 provinces than have peace and lose 8 so I went back to that savegame and am continuing on... It strikes me that if they go on the offensive in Numidia and take (say) Cirta I won't technically lose it as it'll become owned by my own protectorate.

Surely this can't be right and the game has got it's knickers in a twist somehow?

[HarunTaiwan]

I have a game where my protectorates break alliance with me when I attack a third country...I thought protectorates couldn't do that?

[player1]

How to get 100% guaranteed protectorates?

-Have the enemy, with no seiges currently active
-Save the game
-Load the game
-Ask for protectorate


The worst exploit I wittnessed.
Long live save/load bug.

[Folcumbane]

How to get 100% guaranteed protectorates?

-Have the enemy, with no seiges currently active
-Save the game
-Load the game
-Ask for protectorate


The worst exploit I wittnessed.
Long live save/load bug.

That doesn't work always. But, I'm playing RTR.

[player1]

I think you should not have active sieges against that faction too.

[imdWALRU5]

I never ask anybody to be my protectorate, its a huge financial burden and its mostly useless. I just wipe them off the face of the earth!

[dismal]

Let me reiterate that it sure would be nice if we had some definitive answer as top what protectorate's are supposed to do.

In my last game, I got two of them with minimal effort. I was Scipii on VH/VH and contolled about 37 provinces. The Senate told me to blockade a German port, I did it. Next turn I sent an army into Germany for the first time. Never attacked a city, never had a battle. I then asked them to be a protectorate, and they accepted. I checked my financials and could see no change to my tributes, in or out. My province count went up to around 45.

Since this worked so painlessly, I tried the same deal with Pontus on the next turn. They basically owned all of Turkey. They had blockaded me at Rhodes so we were at war, but they had never attacked me. I had taken away Halicanarsus a few turns before just to get the wonder. So, anyway, they said give back Halicanarsus* and we'll be your protectorate. Now I'm at around 55 provinces.

Couple turns later I take Rome, game over.

Sure saved time in the endgame, which isn't a bad feature, but otherwise it seemed to have no detectable effect.

* I don't recall getting a "wonder lost" message when I gave away Halicanarsus. Nor do I recall getting a "wonder captured" message for that other wonder next door. I wonder if you get wonder credit for wonders in your protectorates. Probably not, I imagine.

[HarunTaiwan]

Wait until XP, then they might explain it.

I've gotten way too many easy protectorates...Egypt - all I had to do was give back the one city I took of theirs...and they were a powerhouse.

[brutii_warrior]

yeah, protectorate is wierd.

for the first time i got a protectorate(numidia) and it's been 50 years since then they are still my protectorate but i dont seem to be getting much out of the deal.

i had to pay them 315,000 of my 590,000 denari to get them as a protectorate and have seen no benifit.

every time they declare war on someone i feel obligated to pound the hell out of their enemy so they dont lose any men or waste any denari.

i thought protectorates were suposed to give you all their left over denari.

p.s. i have the game set for 3,000 years bc and 100 ad.
(i like a long powerful game.)

[bubbanator]

I have a question about protectorates...

Hypothetical Scenario: Say you own the city of Rome and nothing else. If you organize enough protectorates, can you win the game when holding only one city?

[Conqueror]

In my Seleucid campaign I've recently aquired Armenia as protectorate. I actually gave them more than just their old lands back, I also let them take over two formerly Parthian provinces that I was holding. That gave Armenia complete control over the Caucasus, creating a very nice and convenient buffer zone between my eastern lands and the Scythians (whom I'm at war with). Once Armenia gets their economy going again (should help that I'm giving them regular tribute) I might give them some territories in northern Balkans to further the buffer zone idea.

I only had to ask them two times to get them to agree, they were down to 1 city and surrounded from all sides, I killed their faction leader who was out patrolling with an army. I offered them 100000 denarii and 1000 for 15 turns as well as their lands + 2 Parthian provinces.

Maybe I'll try to get the SPQR to become protectorate too, that would be kinda funny if they'd be forced to tell Scipii and Julii to stop attacking me

[Wishazu]

on my current greek campaign, the thracians are protectorates of both myself and dacia, is this normal?

[PseRamesses]

In general it seems to be a lot easier to get a protectorate in the initial phase of an conflict, just beat them a couple of turns and leave their lands and cities unspoiled will almost certainly gain you a protectorate. While when you go to great extent of reducing their empire by beating them over and over, raising their cities, killing off their family members will almost never get you a protectorate. This seems unlogical to say the least doesn´t it?

[bubbanator]

In general it seems to be a lot easier to get a protectorate in the initial phase of an conflict, just beat them a couple of turns and leave their lands and cities unspoiled will almost certainly gain you a protectorate. While when you go to great extent of reducing their empire by beating them over and over, raising their cities, killing off their family members will almost never get you a protectorate. This seems unlogical to say the least doesn´t it?

Not in the least does it seem unlogical. If someone has the ability to beat you but is not showing the intent to wipe you off the face of the Earth, you would be more willing to accept protectorate status than if they had killed your friends and family and had reduced your empire to single city.

And besides that, if you had already gone through all the trouble of annihalating their empire and they had one city left, just take it and burn it to the ground.

[sunsmountain]

The money disappearing bug with protectorates seems to have been fixed, i've seen a couple of protectorates so far and no dropping to 0 in the financial ranking.

The single most important ranking during diplomatic negotiations is your military, always check that. The initial post by Guy also reveals how to get a Protectorate:
"This mission is only issued if the target faction has < 4 settlements and < 5 family members"

In summary:
- No spies, no assassins in their territory (once you're done killing of family members and causing rebellions/unrest)
- Blockading their ports might help, it also may not
- Add in map information, trade rights, 100 gold & cities they used to have only to switch them for gold during negotiation
OR
- Threaten to attack with stacks in provinces next to their provinces (ie on but not inside their borders)
- Get one of them epic battle markers against them
- Check their military ranking in the graphs. It must be below you, and preferably the lowest.
- 3 settlements or less, 4 family members or less.

[Midnj]

I don't know about anyone else, but I get 10k a turn from Numidia as Carthage and they own dirt-poor provinces.

My only complaint about protectorates is that I'm getting _too_ much money... such that the AI doesn't seem to have any left for itself to do important things such as... oh I don't know... garrisoning their cities?

It would also be nice if the protected state would at least keep enough of its income (rather than passing it on) to build a small army to deal with rebels and such.

What is annoying about this is if you gift a protected state, it will return it all the next turn as tribute. Stupid.

[Muska Burnt]

for some reason protectorates come easy for me in my greece campaign i had around 3 or 4 but they always brake off since their allies make me mad so i attack their allies witch i think works out better since i would get like 5 settlements in the process

[nameless]

Some things I don't understand about the protectorate status. As the Scipii I managed to get the last Spanish city to surrender to me. Next turn I got like $200,000 added into my coffers which I quickly used up in constructions to avoid the 50,000 thingy. Now I only get like 400 - 800 Denaris from them. What dictates the amount of money they have to pay to you?

Another bad thing is that their allied to the last nations that are still standing, (The non-roman nations of course), I think there should be a command which you can use to tell them to break off their alliances.