Citadel:Total War units

[Uesugi Kenshin]

We do have some pictures, all of the units that have been pretty much finished have pictures here:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=38801 It just takes a bit of searching. We are focusing more on making the mod than hype.

[Narayanese]

Here is a draft for the "pre-marian" kalmar union army:
Riddere (bodyguard unit)
Wepnere (heavy lancers)
Lett rytteri (light shield/falchion cav)
Armborstrytteri (crossbow cav)
Bysseskiwder (handgunners)
Spiwdmaen (spearmen)
Armborstskiwder (crossbowmen)
Boghskiwder (archers)
Wechtere (heavy spearmen)
Bürger

I also want high-xp versions of the light units as mercenaries in sweden after ~1430.
So far I have half of the unitnames are in 15th century danish/swedish, the other half is in 19th century danish/norwegian/swedish.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Thanks for including the native names.

Why do you want high xp mercs after 1430?

[Narayanese]

Early in the 15th century the army was mostly nobility and landsknecht. There was militia, but it was not used much, and not with good results. Denmark used such an army for a long time but in sweden sometime after 1430 or 1440 it changed to the use of heaps of commoners (but nobility still called to fight as much as earlier). The reason for the change was a rebellion in 1430 which included a lot of militia (landvärn). That rebellion failed, but in the peace negotiations the taxes were lowered to appeae this militia. Spurred by that, people rebelled in sweden very often, sometimes even every year, putting themselves under the command of some nobles that had won them over. The result was often that whatever demands they had were met, that's why it went on so much. After a while the many wars had made them better at fighting and warfare in sweden was very much about convincing the people to fight at your side, unlike in denmark. The umion kings couldn't cruch this habit of fighting, it was crushed first in the 1520s by gustaff vasa, but he's no kalmar union ruler.
Thus I want light mercs in sweden after 1430 which soon pop up with gradually more xp, and I also want rebellions in sweden to be more likely after 1430.
Those units I want as swedish mercs as well as buildable would be Lett rytteri, Spiwdmaen, Armborstskiwder, Boghskiwder.


And I hink it would be better to have to marian reforms in the 1450s or so, otherwise you'd reach it too seldom.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I agree that 1450's is the way to go, but I am not sure if we can make the mercs get better over time, or get better after a specific time.

[Narayanese]

I see, you can't have different mercs at different periods. In that case it is better to leave them (the native swedish) out as the danish kings weren't good at recruiting them anyway. Landsknecht should still be there of course, especially in denmark.

Trebuchets were used in the 15th century, though not in scandinavia (which introduced cannons in the 14th century).

An early 16th century swedish book has an illustration where muscovy horsemen use short bows from horseback when galloping (as well as showing russian lancers). What do russian sources say about scandinavian armies?

[Narayanese]

Kalmar union unitlist

:Premarian:
Riddere (bodyguard) = heavy lancers
Wepnere = heavy lancers
Lett rytteri = light cavalry
Landwernrytteri = militia light cavalry
Armborstrytteri = crossbow cavalry
Spiwdmaen = light spearmen
Wechtere = heavy spearmen
Archers *
Crossbowmen *
Bürger *
Handgunners *

:Postmarian:
Riddere (bodyguard)
Wepnere
Landrytteri = medium pistol cavalry
Lett rytteri
Landwernrytteri
Armborstrytteri
Spiudmenn = light spearmen
Hellebardamaen = light halbardiers
Wechtere
Archers *
Crossbowmen *
Bürger *
Handgunners *
Arquebusiers * (light and heavy)
Pikemen *
Musketeers *

:Warships:
Ledhungaskip (only in norway, only premarian) = vikingstyle longships
various generic ships

:Artillery:
Same as rest of europe

:Mercs:
Landsknecht units
German mercenary units

* = generic (ie multifaction)

[Uesugi Kenshin]

What's a Burger with two dots over the u?

[GodsPetMonkey]

What's a Burger with two dots over the u?

Means 2 patties instead of one.

Tasty!

[Narayanese]

Maybe gpm's explanation was satisfying on bürger, but here is mine

Bürger is one of the units in the german faction list, I assume it is urban levy. The nordic cities had up to half of the pop german (visby probably had more, but then visby was controlled by the teutonic order in 1402), so I thought a german urban levy would be correct for kalmar union. The old swedish word for bürger was burghere. I guess the fought with spear or crossbow, in light armour (seldom more than brigandine (or later a cuirass), helmet, aventail/coif and hauberk).

[Yggdrasill]

Burg in German means town. So a Burgher is a citizen. A town militia unit, but because of the peculiar situation in HRE ( a lot of independant princes, robber knights, weak central authority) they were rather more effective than the usual town militia. There are two Burger units, the standard one (don't know whether to make them spearman or crossbowmen) and a pikemen unit.

[Narayanese]

For kalmar uinion it would be better for bürger to have crosbow soince I already have a urban unit (wechtere, ie professional guardsmen) with spears.

[Yggdrasill]

Narayanese
, I need you to give me a short description of armour and weapons of each unit so I can fit them into existing models.

Uesugi,
if you want you can make a list of Irish units for the mod, I know you have volunteered earlier and said you have tons of info from Ranika. I have reserved 1 cavalry slot and 4 infantry slots for Irish units. That doesn't include the Gallowglasses and Kern, I have reserved two slots for them as well (since I already knew about those units). Try to use original names, ie not anglicised forms but real Irish (Gaelic) words.

[Ranika]

What dialect of Irish would you prefer to use? Most common in this period would probably be the 'eastern' dialects (Ulaidi and old Laigini). I'd suggest:

Gallowglass - Galloglaidh (Foreign Soldier; should actually be mercenaries, they worked for the Scots and English as well, the Irish just hired a ton of them)
Kerns - Kernloiabannal (Troop of lochaberaxe soldiers)
Archers/Skirmishers - Kernbogbannal (Troop of bow soldiers) or Tuathakinna (Tribesmen, militia with spears and javelins)
Swordsmen - Clohmtagh (Swordsmen; later Clohmtagh carried a pistol fired before charging)
Hobilars - Hobaguir ('Knights'; javelins, axes, swords, etc., in chain, on ponies)

[kaya]

yo guys whats the status? when will the mod be released cause i'm tired of RTR and SPQR

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Ranika: That looks like a good mix of units to use as Irish mercs. Its good to see that you are still interested.

Kaya: It will be quite a while, unlike SPQR and RTR we are making a total conversion (or as close as you can come with RTW.). So this will take quite a while longer, however, we are working on a demo which should help hold you over.

[General of Tokugawa]

So by the looks of it there will be no cavalry units armed with guns right?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I think some of them will fire once before charging, but I have not heard anyone mention cavalry primarily armed with guns.

Yggdrasill: The soldier that GPM made with the brigandine and JHI style weapon seems like it has too high an armor rating (22), how heavily armed/skilled was this soldier?

[GodsPetMonkey]

So by the looks of it there will be no cavalry units armed with guns right?

There will be cavalry units with firearms. We don't have the animations for them yet though, so you will have to wait before seeing any.

[General of Tokugawa]

Awesome! For which factions though?

[Narayanese]

@GoTokugawa
As far as I know
Kalmar Union, Scotland, England, Saxony, Hapsburg have pistol cavalry,
Venice, Milan, Muscovy, Saxony, Hapsburg, France, Burgundy, Golden Horde have arquebus cavalry.