Costs Of Buildings

[Silver Rusher]

I think that RTW allows the construction of certain buildings to be far, far too easy. Castles/Citadels are a big example of this. So I think it would be a good idea to increase the cost of higher city levels dramatically, for example maybe even up in the 20,000 for some levels. Now you can't just say- Hey look, I have enough people living here- I'll just upgrade this place into a city then.

Large items like Walls for example will also be very costy, due to the amount of resources needed and the fact that it has to be built around the entire city.

What do you think? Best not to include a poll here as opinions will be varied.

[zelda12]

If you're going to do that I'd make sure that you give players a means to be able to get that much money in the first place. I agree that prices should be high but maybe we should make maintenance cost for troops lower and make sure that farm lands are already extensive and producing a reasonable income so that the player doesn't have to save for twenty years and then have no money left over when the next door neighbour decides to send a huge merc army and the player has no money to raise his own forces.

[Silver Rusher]

Well, generally people always find ways of gaining super-economy, and once your empire expands, you get lots more of it.

A huge imposing Citadel shouldn't just be "Hey look, I have enough people in my town! I think I'll just upgrade my castle now..." instead it should be "Here are the plans for be new huge structure, none shall build one to compare. I have gathered all the money my kingdom can offer for this huge project, as well.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Hey silver Rusher I need a loan I want to build a gigantic castle of pure diamond in my backyard, can you lend me say 18 trillion dollars for the first 4 feet of wall?

[Silver Rusher]

Hey, don't over exaggurate on this. You can't just piss money off building a huge Citadel wherever you want "that has a high enough population". It's not realistic, is it?

[zelda12]

Not true silver. During the period the construction of fortifications sped up as instead of stone walls they used earth to combat cannons. The population went up as well so the labour force to build these huge earth fortifications was available and they could be built relatively quickly. The only real cost was for the architechts and these generaly were army generals in the service of their master so it was in their interest to build them cheaply.

[SwordsMaster]

Hmm...sorry for breaking into the discussion as Im in the mod team, but I think Silver Rusher is looking at it from a wrong angle. It is all about getting a population to build such a castle and not the money. See, if you cant afford a 20k castle you wont be building it anyway (the AI certainly won't), and if you can, it wont hurt your economy too much either. In the mid game any faction can get some 5-6k a turn.

So I think the sollution is to extend construction times (IIRC there were cathedrals that took 70+ years to build) , and lower population increase. That way you would also limit the greedy army builder because exhaustive training will become unsustainable.

Thats it. Regards.
SM

[Silver Rusher]

That's a good idea SM, all I was really thinking of here was just a way of making sure that people didn't build as many upgraded levels, and I think your way is probably better. Unfortunately though there aren't any reliable ways of limiting population increase, unless you are talking about making the growth bonuses from certain buildings smaller which I think can be done.

About the cathedrales, I do know very well about that, but you can't just have long build cathedrales WITHOUT space for any other construction, that would just slow gameplay. There is a cathedrale somewhere in Spain which has been in construction for more than 100 years, and still isn't finished.

@zelda12: I'm not really sure you understand the period this mod is based on. It is mainly focused around the 15th century, when stone and big architecture was commonly used, and during this period huge imposing castles and citadels came first in any form of defence. If we do do what you said, it will be very unbalanced as you must also think of southern european, and "Trace Italienne" fortifications.

[SwordsMaster]

There is a cathedrale somewhere in Spain which has been in construction for more than 100 years, and still isn't finished.

I think you are referring to Gaudi´s cathdral in Barcelona. But that one was started some 100 years ago, and wasnt finished because they couldnt find the plans and design the architect had done and the guy died without revealing them.

The cathedral of Santiago de Compostela was started in 1075 IIRC and wasnt finished til the XVIII century. Thats one of the longest construction lengths I know of.

[Silver Rusher]

The cathedral of Santiago is truly the finest cathedrale in the world, IMO. It simply has such amazing architecture to it.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

No really Silver can I borrow that money I want a fortress made of diamond, I am not kidding it would be undefeatable and purdy.








By the way I was just joking I am not really sure what would be best in this area.

[Silver Rusher]

Uesugi, I think that SM had the best idea.

Seing as this mod now begins at 1402 and will be worked up further after it is completed, time is good. And this is the best idea for the given time IMO.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Sounds good. I will shut up about the diamond fortress now...

[zelda12]

@zelda12: I'm not really sure you understand the period this mod is based on. It is mainly focused around the 15th century, when stone and big architecture was commonly used, and during this period huge imposing castles and citadels came first in any form of defence. If we do do what you said, it will be very unbalanced as you must also think of southern european, and "Trace Italienne" fortifications.

I know when its set. I was just saying that cannons were becoming increasingly important in sieges which were in turn becoming the focal point of warfare. To suit this fortifications were changing, as you know. Culminating in the diamond style earth works that were the pinnacle of defence. I take your point but maybe in the closing stages there could be an add on to the fortifications to do with the Earth works.

I just really want to be able to try assaulting that type of fortress with hundreds of cannons bristling among its fortifications...

Anyway I agree with SM.

[massamuusi]

Zelda, you'd be pretty much the only one who can run a battle with hundred cannons bombarding an enormous castle....

[Silver Rusher]

Is it true that his computer can run battles with 20,000 men? 'Cos that's what I heard on the .com.

[zelda12]

Twenty... thousand, I'd have enough trouble with twenty as my computer died on me and is now busily rusting away somewhere. Anyway I was only dreaming of that castle and battle.

*sigh*

Maybe when my new computer gets to the stage when I can afford it. Then with 1 gig of Ram I might be able to. Doubt it though. When I said twenty thousand I was talking multiplayer with 4-8 players with unit sizes on huge.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I would be able to in January, I am upgrading my custom rig to an Athlon FX-55 and a 6800 GT with a gig of better RAM! YAY, but whatever you decide about the fortresses is cool the Turks will still conquer them!