Triple alliance (P&M mod)

[SwordsMaster]

Let's solve the problem. As Dead Moroz suggested, this poll is to decide which factions do we want to be allied in a Senate-roman-faction-like fashion.

1. Spain,Poland,HRE
2. Spain,HRE,Knights
3. Ottomans, Moldavia,Khanate of Crimea
4. Gah! (Other, please specify)

[Dead Moroz]

My opinion now is - Muslims.

But why 3 factions? It's 4 factions in "Senate" system (vanilla Senate, Julii, Brutii and Scipii)! Or did I miss something?

[SwordsMaster]

ooops, yeah, sorry.
I kinda assumed the Senate was the Pope, but we get a problem with the muslims, suggestion for the 4th faction?

[Dead Moroz]

No problems, I think, just some tweaking required. How about this? Senate will be "Porta" or "Divan" - the Sultan and his government, holding one province - Constantinople, of course. The second faction is Ottomans - Turkish empire with lot's of provinces. Third - Crimean Tatars with Crimea and surroundings. And the last could be one of African vassals of empire.

[eadingas]

What about Rome=HRE with Austria, Saxonia, Brandenburg, Czechy?

[Dead Moroz]

What about Rome=HRE with Austria, Saxonia, Brandenburg, Czechy?

I was the same opinion before. But now I'm thinking about Muslims. First, it's... more fun... to be Muslim (just think about polygamy, dude ). Second, who was the most expansionist in Europe that time? Turkey! So according to this parameter they are the analogue of vanilla Romans in our mod. Third, Ottoman empire was continuator of Eastern Roman empire. So they have right to be "Romans" in this mod.

[eadingas]

And HRE was a continuator of Western Roman empire :)
Anyway, there should be this option in a poll! This is what elections are for! To decide different opinions! My option was cut out! It's a scam! I demand a recount! Shcheee ne vmeeerlaaa...
ekhem.

[Eastside Character]

I'm all for the muslim idea. It was me who came up with it first anyway. But as there would have to be 4 factions, I'd say Turkey-Senate, Crimean Tatars, Moldavia and some African vassal state (Tunisia?).

Regards,
EC

[Dead Moroz]

And HRE was a continuator of Western Roman empire :)
Anyway, there should be this option in a poll! This is what elections are for! To decide different opinions! My option was cut out! It's a scam! I demand a recount! Shcheee ne vmeeerlaaa...
ekhem.

How about poll to decide if we need to restart this poll or not?

[Dead Moroz]

I'm all for the muslim idea. It was me who came up with it first anyway. But as there would have to be 4 factions, I'd say Turkey-Senate, Crimean Tatars, Moldavia and some African vassal state (Tunisia?).

Regards,
EC

EC, if Turkey will be "the Senate" it will be unplayable. Me and, I'm sure, many other people would like to play as Turkey. So we need full analogue of vanilla Senate - one region faction of Turkish government - to be able to play as Turkey.

[Al Khalifah]

Why not make the Senate into the Papacy and have the Roman factions as Crusading orders. Since you can reduce the number of 'Roman families' in the game, there wouldn't even need to be 3 either. If the game started late enough, one 'family' could be the Kingdom of Jerusalem while another could be the Knights Templar.

[eadingas]

Wrong time period, I believe. By XVIth c. even the Teutonics had no power.

And BTW, how do you reduce a number of Roman factions?

[SwordsMaster]

hmm, the HRE+German states isnt a bad idea, but that will stop you from playing HRE which is a fairly important faction and a faitly big one that a few people would like to play.

I say a Divan in Constantinople and then Turkey, Khanate and Moldavia. That would almost completely ensure that the turkish will take Constantinople sooner or later so the accuracy would self-establish.

Here is another suggestion for you:

Papacy=Senate and HRE + German states as Romans. Then the civil war could be the 30 years war and/or the various religious uprisings.

Say the "Senate standing" is the grade of "catholicism" and the people standing is "populance support".

Now if I only knew if that can be done.

[eadingas]

Actually, Senate _is_ playable, only in a very limited way. You have to be careful not to choose specific tabs in the faction screen, etc.
How exactly would you want to play a HRE? It was a conglomerate of nations, some of which will have to be made into playable factions... Or do you mean Imperial Estates?
Maybe Senate = Reichstag? Or Imperial Court in Vienna?
I really think HRE is what best represents 'Rome'-type faction in this period. Untill 30 years war, the nations forming HRE were allied with each other, could not have independent foreign politics, etc...

[SwordsMaster]

Actually, Senate _is_ playable, only in a very limited way. You have to be careful not to choose specific tabs in the faction screen, etc.
How exactly would you want to play a HRE? It was a conglomerate of nations, some of which will have to be made into playable factions... Or do you mean Imperial Estates?
Maybe Senate = Reichstag? Or Imperial Court in Vienna?
I really think HRE is what best represents 'Rome'-type faction in this period. Untill 30 years war, the nations forming HRE were allied with each other, could not have independent foreign politics, etc...

I meant the Habsburg empire.

Yes, but they also depended on the Pope as they were still catholics,and as the Pope is going to be in the game anyway, we might as well assign him to be the Senate.

[eadingas]

In that period, I'd say it was the other way around... what power did the Pope have over the Empire? Frederick III was the last Emperor crowned in Rome - 1440. Charles V was the last crowned by the Pope - 1519. After that, and after Luther, what exactly is Pope's real influence over the Reich?

[SwordsMaster]

Thats what I mean. Take into account that the civil war will usually trigger at about 1550s, usually much earlier according to vanilla RTW standards. It has never taken me more than 50 years to trigger the war. So that is quite accurate, and then you can walk in and destroy the pope and plunder Rome (as the emperor's landsknechts and spanish soldiers did at some stage).

But anyway it was just another option to consider. If the majority doesn't like it we can always drop it.

[eadingas]

What period exactly is this mod gonna cover? I thought it's gonna be XVI-XVII c?
Anyway, the majority doesn't have much choice, since the poll has too few possibilities to chose from :) I hope the option 'Gah' wins, so we'll be able to have another poll with more options :)

[SwordsMaster]

The period is 1480-1700

And if you have different suggestions just postem here. I made the poll with what has been suggested in the original thread.

[eadingas]

And I think the HRE+german states is a good idea..

That was you in the original thread :) You just forgot about it when making the poll :)

[SwordsMaster]

Yeah, I forgot, sorry.
Didnt get to read it properly when posting the poll. Anyway, the Gah possibility leaves it pretty open.