Culture in CTW

[Silver Rusher]

As I have now discovered, cultures are hardcoded. Therefore I have now had to rearrange the factions to fit into their appropriate cultures. The Bohemians have been left out due to a lack of space in their particular culture.

Roman Culture=Crusader Culture
Senate=Papacy
Julii=Hospitaller
Brutii=Teutonic
Scipii=Dragon

Barbarian Culture=Western Catholic Culture
Britannia=England
Dacia=Italy
Gaul=France
Germania=HRE
Scythia=Aragon
Spain=Castile

Greek Culture=Central Catholic Culture
Greek Cities=Hungary
Seleucid Empire=Germany
Thrace=Danes
Macedon=Poland

Egyptian Culture=Tartar Culture
Egypt=Mongols

Phoenician Culture=Orthodox Culture
Carthage=(available)
Numidia=Russia

Eastern Culture=Muslim Culture
Parthians=Turks
Armenians=Mamluks
Pontics=Moors

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Looks good, but one question: Are we going to fill the slot of the Seluecids? Because if we could find another muslim group to put in there it would be nice...

[Silver Rusher]

Seleucids=Mamluks

You mean the macs, don't you? I don't want to go through the hassle of adding yet another muslim faction, although if you can make a decent suggestion I'd like to hear it.

[FEMTO]

Seleucids=Mamluks

You mean the macs, don't you? I don't want to go through the hassle of adding yet another muslim faction, although if you can make a decent suggestion I'd like to hear it.

I think those three are fine.

[FEMTO]

Furthermore, the Mongols are pretty much considered a Muslim faction too because they pretty much convert to Islam after they destroy Baghdad. Can’t remember exactly the date of their conversion but I am pretty sure they are Muslim after 1402 anyway.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

They still had a unique culture..... Yeah I meant the macs

OOPS!

If I come across another good one I will tell you...

[eadingas]

You could try mixing Tatars with Russians, though. In the early period of this mod, Russia was still under strong Mongol influence, and it makes more sense than mixing them up with Poles, who should be in the central european culture, rather, or maybe alone in the 'egyptian' culture if there's no place for them left...

[Silver Rusher]

I think that you are right eadingas. I have figured out a solution to this problem. We can switch it around so that the muslims are eastern factions and the middle-european catholics are greeks. I'm sure that would be a much better way of going about it. Oh yes, and this does mean that there is an orthodox slot available, one that I would like to take suggestions for.

[FEMTO]

I think that sounds a lot more logical.

[eadingas]

Too bad other european orthodox nations are already conquered or being conquered by Turks in 1402... What about Georgia or Armenia? Or switch Russia to Egypt, and give Tatars two factions instead of one?

[Celtic_Winter]

I think Eadingas idea is good.
Get 2 Tartar factions and switch Russia over to Egypt.

[Silver Rusher]

I'd want to, but I really would prefer not to do this as I am in a fairly late stage of developing the campaign map.

[Yggdrasill]

Well what did we decide on this? Is the faction list complete or are we still one short (and if so, what culture does that slot belong to)?

If the Orthodox slot is still available, then then the most logical faction would be the Byzantium

[QwertyMIDX]

It would be nice to see the Moors as a Muslim culture (depending on your starting date) as up until the end of the 15th century they were a force in the western Mediterranean.

Also, during the early Renaissance Russia was not an actual state, it was only established in about 1480 under Ivan III. Still the inclusion of Russia as a Slavic cultural faction is a good idea, perhaps you could name it Muscovy to be more accurate. Another Slavic state that was powerful at the time was the Lithuanian Empire, so that should solve your missing faction problem.
If you want more information about Baltic and Russian political realties at the time I could probably dig some stuff up if you give me some specific dates.

[QwertyMIDX]

Also, in case you were unaware, from 1397-1523 Denmark, Sweden, and Norway were united under one Monarch in the Union of Kalmar.

[eadingas]

Excuse me, what is this 'Lithuanian Empire' you speak of? :)

[QwertyMIDX]

The Grand-Duchy of Lithuia.
Try these maps for location:
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1400.htm#%20here
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1500.htm

It was the expanision of Luthuian power that caused the Tartars to expand Moscow as a defence against its encrocement thus setting the stage for the various Ivans to unite much of Russia and push out the Tartars.

[eadingas]

Yes, I know what Grand Duchy was, I was being sarcastic a bit because of your calling it 'Empire' :) The problem with this being, of course, that at the time of the mod, since 1385, Lithuania and Poland are in a union of growing closeness (from personal to total annexation). I don't think giving Lithuania a faction would be very historical, unless we want to play a 'what if', and toy with an idea of anti-union lithuanian nobles rising to power, and breaking the alliance. This has never happened, though.

[QwertyMIDX]

I'm not sure what factions you're using but I think a Lithuanian is the closest thing to a second slavic power you could find, even if it was in a union with Poland for a good deal of this period (I would still like some exact dates) but if the Teutonic Knights are considered a viable factions (despite the fact that they were pretty much eradicated as a force in Europe in 1410) than the Lithuanians are just as viable, perhaps as a Polish-Lithuanian faction.

[eadingas]

The Teutonics are, I think, there only to fill up a third spot in the 'Pope+Knights' setup... also I wish people would stop repeating how Teutons were destroyed at Tannenberg, because it was not until 1466 after 13-years long war that they were finally defeated, and not until 1525 that they lost their independence.
Of course, I hope Lithuanian provinces won't be 'rebel', but will belong to Polish-Lithuanian faction... if it were possible, Poland and Lithuania as separate factions should be joined with permanent alliance/protectorate like Roman factions, but I don't think it can be done.
Exact dates? 1385 - personal union, 1569 - real union. Between that, the union was growing tighter, with several very short (5-10 years) periods of Lithuania's independence when Poland and Lithuania chose different kings (although from the same dynasty) - these could be imitated by periods of rebellion - and several treaties strengthening the union.

[QwertyMIDX]

I was asking about exact dates with respect to the mod. Also, people keep using Tannenberg because after that battle the TK's became a second rate power and no longer warrent cosideration as a faction.

[eadingas]

Also, people keep using Tannenberg because after that battle the TK's became a second rate power and no longer warrent cosideration as a faction.

Well, this is where they're wrong. Tannenberg was a great battle, lost heavily by Teutons, but it didn't really diminish their power considerably. Poles didn't really manage to gather any spoils from that victory, and peace signed in 1411 was only a return to pre-war status quo.
It took a combined might of Poland-Lithuanian army, and Gdansk-hired hussite-style mercenaries, and 13 years of bloody war to finally crush the Teutonic knights. They were not defeated militarily, but economically, because of growing power of hanseatic cities and because they could no longer organize crusades, as there were no more pagans around.

[QwertyMIDX]

Fine, fine call it the turning point and the beginning of their fall from power. The importance of the battle is still paramount to the development of Central and Eastern Europe during the period. It remains an essential date for the rise of the early state in Central and Eastern Europe and the collapse of the semi-feudal system maintain by the Knightly Orders. Even though the Knights managed a stunning coup in the following peace (probably due to the failure of the siege of Malbrok) their military power was greatly diminished (not to mention the fact that the battle essentially decapitated the order by killing of most of its high officials including the Grand Master). The 'War of the Cities' was mainly a defensive one for the Order. After all their own 'subjects' were rebelling against their feudal style administration that was hampering the economic growth in the Prussian towns.

Sorry, I’m being ridiculous about this, it’s pretty much irrelevant to the thread and the mod, but history is just so interesting *cough, nerd, cough*.

[QwertyMIDX]

Just in case, I know the Polish (although interesting not the Liths, oh internal squabbling) were involved they became involved at the request of the Secret Council of the Prussian Confederacy, people who, theoretically, should have support the Knights.

Damn, and I said I would stop, I think I need a historeta patch or something (what an awful pun).