Research: Fixing the trait bugs

[therother]

What's the current status of these assassin issues? Do we think they are bugs or just CA eccentricities?

[player1]

If you ask me, it's a mixed blessing.

While it's weird to not get experience for Sabotage, if you introduce Conspirator trait to Assassins, you effectively get +3 synergy bonus to subtefuge to assassins making them a bit overpowred.

On the other hand, if you switch Conspirator with bonus to GoodAssassin trait, you could get loss of flavor (Murderer that didn't killed anyone).


That's probably why I kept status quo with bug-fixer.


EDIT:
Maybe CA did at first wanted assassins to get XP from sabotage, but later balanced assassins with no XP for sabotage in mind?

[sunsmountain]

Both spies and assassins can easily get their master level (5) after 16 successfull missions. Add in the talent (+1/2/3) and the retinues (+2/3/4) makes 10 on average (i believe the assassin and spy rolls are solely dependant on subterfuge, and it doesn't seem to rise above 10).

This effectively makes GoodConspirator redundant.
One way out of this is change threshold for GoodAssassin from
1/2/4/8/16 to
2/4/8/16/32, and disable triggers agents15 and agents16.
Change threshold for GoodConspirator from
2/4/8 to
4/8/16.

This way you can still get 5 levels in subterfuge after 16 missions as an assassin, but now they're distributed evenly between murder & sabotage. Plus your assassin can 'grow' to level 8 over time (which spies can already do).

Spies still need highly successfull spying missions to get GoodConspirator (probably a little harder to get but redundant anyway).

[player1]

Newly founded bug (first noticed at twcenter):

Numidian governors can never get priests as their retunue mebers, since only triggers for their pantheon of gods are reserved to carthaginians only.


Example:

Trigger trigger_priest_of_Baal
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists >= temple_of_justice_temple
          and FactionType carthage
          and IsGeneral

    AcquireAncillary priest_of_Baal chance  15

This is the only trigger for Baal priest and is carthaginian only.



P.S.
Changing "FactionType carthage" to "FactionType (carthage or numidia)" does the trick. Will be seen in new version of bug-fixer soon.


EDIT:
Wow, when did [CODE] tags started working properly?

[Dead Moroz]

Changing "FactionType carthage" to "FactionType (carthage or numidia)" does the trick. Will be seen in new version of bug-fixer soon.

Maybe "FactionType carthage, numidia" ?

[player1]

Actually, the best would be creating aditional trigger with numidia instead of carthage as FactionType.

[Dead Moroz]

Actually, the best would be creating aditional trigger with numidia instead of carthage as FactionType.

Why? These's lots of triggers for multiple factions. I think it's no need for creating special Numidian one... But maybe I missed something?

[tai4ji2x]

dead moroz: what are the other multi-faction triggers, btw? what's the wording format/syntax?

[player1]

Why? These's lots of triggers for multiple factions. I think it's no need for creating special Numidian one... But maybe I missed something?

Actually, if you look for other factions with shared temples, you'll see not only that they have seperate triggers, but they have separete retinue memebers too (just with same image and name, so they look same).


I advised separate trigger instaed of original "(carthage or numidia)", since when i tested it, it woked fine in campaign, but gave me some weird error in custom battle, when I tried to modify spartan texture (weird???). Something like unrecognised factiontype.

[Dead Moroz]

dead moroz: what are the other multi-faction triggers, btw? what's the wording format/syntax?

See the first in export_descr_ancillaries.txt:

Ancillary actor
    Image effete_man_ancillary.tga
    ExcludedAncillaries comedian, playwright
    ExcludeCultures barbarian, carthaginian, eastern, egyptian, roman
    Description actor_desc
    EffectsDescription actor_effects_desc
    Effect Influence  1

It doesn't set exactly factions, just culture types, but I'm sure it works with factions too. I used this syntax for adding new trait to multiple agent types and it worked.

[Dead Moroz]

Actually, if you look for other factions with shared temples, you'll see not only that they have seperate triggers, but they have separete retinue memebers too (just with same image and name, so they look same).


I advised separate trigger instaed of original "(carthage or numidia)", since when i tested it, it woked fine in campaign, but gave me some weird error in custom battle, when I tried to modify spartan texture (weird???). Something like unrecognised factiontype.

Dunno about textures, but multiple targets must work for traits, ancilliares and buildings.

Actually I guess that string should be:

and TargetFactionCultureType carthaginian

[tai4ji2x]

dead moroz: the syntax for the "factiontype" condition seems to be as player1 indicates: parentheses with the word "or".

[player1]

Repost from bug-fixer thread:

Some things I'll really like input of other players.

I've considered fixing values of some traits that seem like typos.


First there is and Energetic trait. A real mess.
At first level it has movment bonus of 2 (ok), which gets increased to 4 at 2nd level and drops back to 2 at 3rd level (!!!) Also at 4rd level it loses one point of management (drop from 3 to 2). Nothing in flavor text indicated any negatives about improving this trait. Also it will be common occurance since Energetic can be increased with some temples.

I guess that fourth level is supposed to give +4management. But how movement bonus is supposed to incrase I have no idea. I'm only sure it was never ment to be higher then +4 at any point.


Then there is a Berserk trait. Really easy to gain with germans if using proper temples. But nothing is descpritions explains sudden high drop in moral. Is it supposed to be +4bonus, not -4 penalty?


Then goes IanR trait. Very rare, but gives -10 personal secutiry per level. Somehow I think it is supposed to be -1 per level, since -10/-20/-30 is way to huge value (call it instant assassination).


RomanHero and Brave are interesting since they both get drop in moral at last level (from 4 to 2). Very weird considering that they have high praises in their descriptions. Maybe bonus is supposed to be 5. Also, it's weird that Brave gets bonus in popular standing since it is non-roman trait. It's interesting to point another minor thing, and that is that no non-roman or barbarian general can gain "The Great" title. Only last level of RomanHero, as well as Warlord give "The Great" title. Somehow I think that last level of Brave, should give "the great" title since brave trait is non-roman replacment of romanhero.

And there is a Feck trait that gives bonuses/penalties to popular/senate standing, but can be gained by non-romans too.


Any oppinions about these?

[magnum]

Definately believe that IanR trait should be -1 / -2 / -3 instead of the -10 / -20 / -30. Personal Security not only affects the ease that you can be assassinated, but also the size of your personal bodyguard. Each point is worth 2 bodyguards. This means at the second and third level of IanR you can actually end up with a negative number of bodyguards. Somehow I don't think thats what CA meant.

[player1]

I doubt that you can get negative bodyguards. It's just that that bodyguard unit would probably not get reinforced ever.

[player1]

Does anybody remember the old bug, when gaining anti-trait would reset trait value to zero, regardless how good trait was?

Well, I found out the solution.

The thing is that traits that have "no going back level" aren't affected.
So soulution is to add "virtual" no going back level to all traits. Since we really don't want to have all traits with real no gonig back levels, no going back level should be one level higher then highest level of the trait (impossible to reach). So, for example, if GoodCommander has 5 levels, its no going back level should be made 6.