Campaign map development

[Myrddraal]

Here I will post some images of the map and also some previews of the region layout etc.

Work in progress:

[Myrddraal]

bump

[Khan48]

Nice. Map isn't too empty either. For roads what level are you going to let each faction get?

[Myrddraal]

I think all levels of road will be availiable to all, but I suggest we don't allow roads to be built in places like Caralain grass. These provinces are in contact with so many other provinces that it simply looks stupid.

[JR-]

looks good. aiel factions and trollocs too should not have the top road building techs.

[Andreas]

We should let most regions have at least basic road level in start, I think. The wot world is more developed then the roman.

[Myrddraal]

Not the caralain grass, seriously, it makes this tiny village look like the center of the world...

[Andreas]

Yes, but I wrote most And what I meant was that they should have roads when we started the game.

[al'Callaendor]

it's a good beginning.

[soibean]

well you could always have just one road or two running through it
just do what they did with Rhegium in Italy with the road, it borders three different provinces but the road only goes to one.

[al'Callaendor]

soibean, just once is sufficient...

[SMZ]

heh - well yeah, places like the Caralain Grass are basically wasteland - I agree... no need for roads there.

Maybe a few slight restrictions? Like Murandy and Altara not getting top level roads?

Also a thing to consider is, changing the balance of the roads a bit. Make paths easily buildable, because almost all the civilized parts have them. But actual paved roads are much rarer, so maybe make them more expensive and time-consuming, but a big trade impact...

[soibean]

sorry about that, for whatever reason the site was being very slow and I got frustrated and clicked the button repeatedly for some effect.

SMZ has a good idea
Does anyone know off hand the bonuses that a road/paved road/high way gives to movement? Something like extra 1/4 move or some such if you're following me? If thats the case you can give a path some tiny bonus and a much larger bonus for paved road.

[cdaulepp]

Hey Myrdraal,

I really like the campaign map shot. Can you take some more shots like the one in this thread and post them for us?

I noticed in the screenshot you posted that you misplaced "So Tehar". You have So Tehar way far north east of Ebou Dar, but it is just north of the city.

You may wish to download this map I've found. The Author researched all of the cities and placed them on the map. (s)he also placed other things like stedding, waygates, and all the armies present locations at the end of Knife of Dreams.

http://webpages.charter.net/newname/...New%20Name.jpg

You'll need to open the picture in a picture editor like Paint or something to see the fine detail, but it is quite a nice piece of work.

If you haven't read Knife of Dreams then I suggest not downloading the map because the army placements have some spoilers in them.

Anyway, I thought this would help. Please take some screenshots like you did earlier and post them.

cdaulepp

[SMZ]

know you said it a long time ago - but good idea soibean - I was wondering the other day if it was possible to have two types of roads in one province... ie: one main road - and other lesser paths...

and nice job on the link cdaulepp - some have seen it, some haven't - but you're right - it's a very nice tool - props to its maker

[Andreas]

Hello...

Right now I am the person working with the camp. map, to convert it for BI. I have some problems, but I think I solved most of them yesterday. If I get it working, I might be able to give you some nice screens.

And I beat you about the map, posted it in dev area almost two weeks ago;) (And it is a he). It is nice, but it has some flaws.

Edit: And I was right, the map now works for BI. Screens will come.

[cdaulepp]

"New_Name" over at wotmania.com claimed the original map had a couple of errors which he? fixed recently. The link I gave is to the newest version. If you downloaded his version from 2 weeks ago I think that might have been an older version of the map.

Might be worth checking. The newest version of the map has Salidar right on the river Elbar and has So Habor correctly placed to the south of Abila.

I can't wait for the screenshots. Those will be awesome!!

cdaulepp

[Andreas]

I have the latest version:P

And IIRC, it is a he:P Anyway, there are amtters with the army numbers and stuff like that, but those are more a matter of the wotmania faq, since that where the numbers are from.

[cdaulepp]

which army numbers on New_Name's map do you disagree with?

[Renly]

Post screens now11111111111111111111111111111111!.

[Andreas]

Ok, if you want that....

Screen one: The black hills and a part of the Border.


Screen two: Struggle for the almoth plain (please provide with settlement names if you can):

More screens will come, I guess. Maybe a screen with one of the brilliant diplomacy responses SMZ has written:)

An interesting note about the map: One I simulated a couple of rounds on the map, it was like seeing how the feelings the different natiosn has towards each other evolved. Tarabon and Arad Doman was involved in a war pretty soon, over the almoth plain. Tear fought Illian at the plains of maradeo and andor at far madding, Andor expanded quickly for all sides. Pretty fun to watch

cdaulepp: Well, for one as was said by someone in the dev area, seanchan could not field a million men at this side of the ocean, and have troops left at home. Also, the logisitics for that many troops and settelers would have been impossible to manage, and there for that must be both settlers and soldiers. Also, I disagree with the postiton of the saldean lances at caemlyn. I think they have been moved by now, probably to illian or arad doman.

[SMZ]

this is so dope I'm giddy... lol

ten woots for Myrddraal and Andreas

wordums... *has other 3 or 4 diplomacy's done in record time*

[Antagonist]

The campmap is looking really good, nice work Andreas and Myrrdraal!

About the names for settlements on Almoth Plain, the only suggestion I can think of is maybe naming Almoth Upper after the Paerish Swar (Darkwood) which is apparently the name of the forest which covers that area, though of course it's not really a settlement. I get the impression that Almoth plain is all but deserted by then, with nothing larger than tiny nameless villages... Anyone else have suggestions?

Good job again,

Antagonist

[Myrddraal]

May I emphasise that this map is quite an early version and has been kicking around for a while. The final map will be more 'zoomed in' which is to say the scale will be larger. More map squares per mile if you like. If you want more info on why, read the Demo Info thread

Edit: Town names is one of the reasons I've put very large provinces for the unpopulated areas. Another reason is that we don't want them to have as much potential for growth.

There is always the option of having unconquerable regions with no town (yes this is possible), but would that actually be good?

[Werthead]

Hi guys. First post here. Been lurking for a while and am really impressed with the progress you guys are making. I'm actually looking forward to playing this more than reading A Memory of Light (yeah, kind of burned on the series, but love the worldbuilding and I love Rome, so here I am).

One question for the mapmakers: do you have access to The Prophecies of the Dragon, the RPG expansion? It has a series of adventures set on Almoth Plain and Toman Head complete with town names approved by Robert Jordan.

Ostin Falls is a town on Almoth Plain just east of Toman Head. It seems to be a crossroads between Tarabon and Arad Doman north-south and Katar-Falme east-west. Aturo's Orchard is a town further south but still near Toman Head (perhaps near the bay at the southern end of the head?). I'd suggest moving Almoth Upper further north-west and renaming it Ostin Falls, whilst Almoth Lower could be moved slightly further west and renamed Aturo's Orchard. Aturo's Orchard is located near a forest called the Bramblewood and there is a small highland region nearby called the Old Hills.

Also, if you wanted to subdivide Toman Head, there's another village called Tobin's Hollow which is on the headland itself, west of Aturo's Orchard.

Hope that helps. PS I though Lake Somal was the big lake between the mountains and the Darkwood? Ituralde seem to imply it was near Katar in Crossroads of Twilight.

[Antagonist]

May I emphasise that this map is quite an early version and has been kicking around for a while. The final map will be more 'zoomed in' which is to say the scale will be larger. More map squares per mile if you like. If you want more info on why, read the Demo Info thread

I was just wondering about that. Nice to hear that it's still on, it's an excellent idea that should give the mod a more unique tactical feel, and make it more evocative of the kind of tactical planning prevalent in the books.

Antagonist

[Lanfire]

Even in the winter this is looking so hot!!
but any news about the demo and when it's coming out.. ( no delays?)

[SMZ]

May I emphasise that this map is quite an early version and has been kicking around for a while. The final map will be more 'zoomed in' which is to say the scale will be larger. More map squares per mile if you like. If you want more info on why, read the Demo Info thread

Edit: Town names is one of the reasons I've put very large provinces for the unpopulated areas. Another reason is that we don't want them to have as much potential for growth.

There is always the option of having unconquerable regions with no town (yes this is possible), but would that actually be good?

I didn't know you could have regions with no towns - I really like that idea. Things like the Caralain Grass and Haddon Mirk - should just be hindrances to deal with... make you consider which directions to attack more if you knew going across the Grass was just going to be months of travel with no reward - which fits the books better... I really like that concept

[Andreas]

One question for the mapmakers: do you have access to The Prophecies of the Dragon, the RPG expansion? It has a series of adventures set on Almoth Plain and Toman Head complete with town names approved by Robert Jordan.

Ostin Falls is a town on Almoth Plain just east of Toman Head. It seems to be a crossroads between Tarabon and Arad Doman north-south and Katar-Falme east-west. Aturo's Orchard is a town further south but still near Toman Head (perhaps near the bay at the southern end of the head?). I'd suggest moving Almoth Upper further north-west and renaming it Ostin Falls, whilst Almoth Lower could be moved slightly further west and renamed Aturo's Orchard. Aturo's Orchard is located near a forest called the Bramblewood and there is a small highland region nearby called the Old Hills.

Also, if you wanted to subdivide Toman Head, there's another village called Tobin's Hollow which is on the headland itself, west of Aturo's Orchard.

Hope that helps.

That was great info, thanks. I can use that:)

Myrddraal: I have a sollution for that, but it contains sensetive information about the mod( )... I take it with you some day.

[cdaulepp]

Andreas,

That looks really great. I really appreciate your hard work. Is it possible to move Falme to the end of Toman Head? In the books it was at the very tip, near the ocean.

Is it possible to do the same with Bandar Eban?

I have a comment about Myrdrraal's question about 'should we have unconquerable regions with no cities'...

All of the land in the Wheel of Time is inhabited. Some places like the Caralain Grass don't have huge cities, like they used to, but they have villages and smaller cities spread throughout. The same goes for Almoth Plain, Haddon Mirk, the Plains of Maredo, and the area east of Tar Valon (between Cairhien and Shienar).

Although they are not as heavily populated as they once were they still have small cities. There's an example of one in the region to the east of Tar Valon in The Great Hunt when Rand gets stuck in the time loop.

What has happened is we haven't had their names mentioned in the series yet, but they are there. One area where we do have a bunch of names is Altara. We see there are cities spread all over the countryside. Let me name the ones we have read of throughout the series: Samaha, Tallan, Fyall, So Eban, So Habor, So Tehar, Malden, Cormaed, Sehar, Jurandor, Coramen, Alkandar, Weesin, Mosra, and Remen. That list doesn't include all the new cities' names we learn of in Knife of Dreams that are in northeastern Altara.

So my point is that even though we don't know the names of some of the cities in the looser populated areas, we know they exist. My preference would be to put cities in each region.

I totally understand your concern about keeping the potential of the less inhabited regions low. Is it a solution to this poroblem to make cities in these areas with the minimum amount of population possible?

cdaulepp