Ancillaries and Character Traits

[McFungos]

I understand about the family members now, before I was just throwing things out in the dark. I didn't know if the mod team was going to be able to have female family members be dominant, and thus I listed Elayne, Faile, etc...

I talked to Andreas earlier, the list on the front page will probably be updated soon once I get done with descriptions and he gets done with checking things for accuracy to the books and game mechanics... tis a bit confusing now with lists bouncing back and forth

How's this sound McFungos?

Thanks SMZ.

Too bad that we can't deseable the retreat capacity of a unit with a trait
A general with a win or dead option would have been very fun to play.

[SMZ]

wait until Andreas posts to find out if that's possible - I'm no expert on game mechanics... although it does sound unlikely...

we could prolly make it so that if he withdraws from a battle he will lose that trait...

[Andreas]

Well, the troop morale is how likely they are to reteat so it is kinds the same. I will think about all points.

[McFungos]

Well, the troop morale is how likely they are to reteat so it is kinds the same. I will think about all points.

With a slight difference, a losing general can't sound the retreat.

But i guess that the solution proposed by SMZ is the best possible.

About Daerid, Talmanes and Nalesean they can be introduce as generals but it will require a trigger because they appear with the Band.
Possible trigger for the Band + commanders to appear, probably an unrealistic one :
- The Dragon control Caihrien + Tear
- Mat or general with Memories + Ta'veren
- Mat or a general have in stack 1 Caihrien Calvalry + 1 Tear Calvary + 1 infantry
- Spent 1 turn outside the city of Caihrien.

Benefits also unrealistc:
- You can build the Red Hand Band units
- Talmanes appear with 1 Red Hand cavalries
- Nalesean appear with 1 Red Hand cavalries
- Daerid appear with 3 Red Hand Infantries + 1 Red Hand Bowmen

Lose unrealistic again:
- Units stacked with Mat or the general lost

I really don't know if it can be done but i thinks that it is a good way to be as close as possible to the books.


A downgraded version

To build Red Hand Band units
trigger :

- The Dragon control Caihrien + Tear
- Stables + Barracks in both cities

To have Daerid, Talmanes and Nalesean as ancillary
trigger

- Mat or general with Memories + Ta'veren
- Spent 1 turn outside the city of Caihrien.

[Andreas]

Well, well now we shall see...

With a slight difference, a losing general can't sound the retreat.

But i guess that the solution proposed by SMZ is the best possible.

Well, you cannot have everything.

About Daerid, Talmanes and Nalesean they can be introduce as generals but it will require a trigger because they appear with the Band.
Possible trigger for the Band + commanders to appear, probably an unrealistic one :
- The Dragon control Caihrien + Tear
- Mat or general with Memories + Ta'veren
- Mat or a general have in stack 1 Caihrien Calvalry + 1 Tear Calvary + 1 infantry
- Spent 1 turn outside the city of Caihrien.

Benefits also unrealistc:
- You can build the Red Hand Band units
- Talmanes appear with 1 Red Hand cavalries
- Nalesean appear with 1 Red Hand cavalries
- Daerid appear with 3 Red Hand Infantries + 1 Red Hand Bowmen

Lose unrealistic again:
- Units stacked with Mat or the general lost

I really don't know if it can be done but i thinks that it is a good way to be as close as possible to the books.

A downgraded version

To build Red Hand Band units
trigger :

- The Dragon control Caihrien + Tear
- Stables + Barracks in both cities

I think we will be able to train the Band immidetly on game start, since you will be able to train alot of other things from start(aiel for example). To have triggers where new generals appear isn't a good way in my eyes, it could turn the game... and there will be no Red Hand Archers. If have triggers for all different types of units PotD can ahve, there will be new units coming to him every turn, which wouldn't be ver balanced... (The game starts when the stone falls. Next turn, they get aiel. Turn after that more aiel and the band, turn after that the Dragon Legion, after that asha'man, after that some aes sedai and the sea folk, then Illian units and so on. You see my point? You would get new units every turn.)

To have Daerid, Talmanes and Nalesean as ancillary
trigger

- Mat or general with Memories + Ta'veren
- Spent 1 turn outside the city of Caihrien.

Talmanes as a ancillary :
Lord Talmanes of House Delovinde
A Cairhienin nobleman who commands half the band's cavalry. His con is three yellow stars on blue. His banner is a black fox.

Effect: +2 Command
Effect: +2 Calvary Command
Effect: +1 troop morale

Daerid as a ancillary :
Daerid Ondin
This man has a broken nose and several scars on his face. He commands the Red Hand Band's foot soldiers.

Effect: +1 Command
Effect: +2 Infantry Command
Effect: +2 Bowmen Command
Effect: +1 Defence Command

Nalesean as a ancillary :
Lord Nalesean of House Aldiaya
A square-faced and blocky Tairen noble who commands half the cavalry of the Red Hand Band.

Effect: +1 Command
Effect: +1 Calvary Command
Effect: +1 Attack Command


I hope that my small contribution is usefull

This could eb a way, or we just have them as generals from the start, easier. We could force the PotD to take cairhien before they can build the band, but then they would only be able to build there.

[SMZ]

A solution I was thinking about for the various elite units would be to tie them to Temple-like Buildings. ie: Queen's Guard Barracks, or in this case, Band of the Red Hand Barracks. There could be different levels of this, etc and have other effects mayhaps. But it seemed a nice solution to me. :)

[Andreas]

There would be many temples... and I think that a high level barrack is enough, with areas included(Queens guard for example will only be trainable in andor).

[RedPanther1]

I have a Seanchan Ancillary I just though up after reading Crossroads of Twilight.

Kaensada So' Jhin: Coming from the barely civilized Kaensada Hill Tribes this mans strange morbid ways can intimidate most other Seanchan. He is, however, a slight detriment to troop morale due to his tendency to clean and roast rats in the common room of the inn.

+ influence
- morale

Also, I don't know if you have the Altaran ancillary "Pretty" but I believe that it's a common thing in Altara and should be implemented in some way.

[aleh]

Perhaps give 2 automatic to the King of Illian: Council of the Nine and Assemblage. The Assemblage would give +1(or 2) management, and +1 in sea trade(is that possible), and the one in the Council of the Nine would give -1 in management(always bickering), but perhaps +1 in Influence and/or +1 in Command. Or if it's possible, and I'm pretty sure it isn't, but in case it isn't, make 2 faction leaders for Illian, King/Council with the Assemblage as ancillary for each. :D

Perhaps give the King of Tarabon, 2 ancillaries. The Panarch +1 influence/+1 management, and the assembly of the lords +1 command/-1 management.

Also, Cairhien King should either have an automatic bonus trait in Daes Dae'mar or either an advisory who gives those bonuses.

The King of Kandor should have an ancillary drawn from the merchants of the nation, +1 management.

Also, the King of Ghealdan should have a miner ancillary, and Ghealdan should be -rich- for its mines.

I think that the -King- of Amadicia should have either -1 or -2 Influence because the Whitecloaks are basically running the country...But for that matter, why not just make the Lord-Captain Commander the ruler of Amadicia, technically the guy is.

[Andreas]

We have traits and anciallaries for the rulers already.... and not all cairhien are over-skilled in daes'dae'mar...

[aleh]

Also, for the Aiel ancillaries.

Since the Tain Shari are both expert fighters, but above all trained to ferret out the Darkfriends in their socities. Perhaps make them +1 command against shadow, and possibly +1 personal security(against assassins and all), and possibly +1 <trait that helps with 'actual' combat>

Perhaps either give the Far Dareis Mai either -1 or +1 fertility(can go either way, it's up to y'all)

What's LOS?

Night Spear should either add a bonus to ambushes(if it's possible), or perhaps something like that.

Perhaps make a wise one ancillary
+1/+2 Influence
+1 personal security
+1/+2/+3 morale
+1 command vs. Shadow.
+1/+2 Management
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Also, Demandred should -EASILY- have +4/5 Command, and also a +2/3 command if outnumbered, and also either a -1 management or a +1 management.
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What is Zara exactly, I've never heard of it, what part of the books is it in?
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Why do Seanchan Blood get negative bodyguard valour, I would assume that with the Deathwatch Guard and the Sul'dam/dam'ane(the high ranked), this man would be nigh-on impossible to kill save by someone with the Taveren trait, and even then....
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For Illianer national traits. Something to do with sailors, something to do with merchanting, and something that says that he trained with the Companions? Perhaps?
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The Library trait should be given to Domani as well, I seem to remember that they had a pretty good library from somewhere as well.
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[Andreas]

You should wait and see for what will be posted, every trait is currently redone...

LOS is Line of Sight.

Edit: Wise ones are diplomats... wasa, I will have to write a info post...

[SMZ]

sorry didn't see this - nice one Red Panther

aleh - the faction leaders and heirs are almost completely outlined - I think we'll make an info post about the way those are being handled soon - be nice to see what you think about the current ideas

good point about Demy getting a bonus when outnumbered - a number of those traits have been reworked however... remember at the time I was making suggestions not official postings

zara is a strategy game - it envolves using real ppl - my description was a bit off when I made it - I was thinking of a different ancient game - regardless that line of traits was in discussion for being cut...

as to the Seanchan Blood... if he has a Deathwatch Guard or Suldam anc then this will boost his security dramatically - just by himself however - those long fingernails get in the way...

I'll do the sailors and the Companions... why merchants tho? a note on the sailors too - they aren't that special - they think they are but they really don't know as much as they think they do

and yep at the Library - I found that out just a few weeks ago - the Terhana Library in Bandar Eban

:)

[aleh]

Hehe, thanks for all the answers, I'll wait for y'all posts until I flood the forum again with suggestions. As for why I think the Illianer(and Domani for that matter), should get some sort of Merchant trait, well it's because the merchants in that country are organized, numerous -and- powerful. Arad Doman has the Council of Merchants, and Illian has the Assemblage. I'd assume that any leader of those nations would have to be good in merchanting and whatnot less he/she piss off those powerful merchants. In the other nations, merchants are powerful and all, but it's the level of organization and popular support from the people that makes them important in Arad Doman and Illian.


And I have a question that's been in mind for a bit now. Now, will there be female family members/governors/nobles? Or is it impossible to code it as such in game mechanics? Perhaps give women a HP/combat negative value to dissuade people from using them as generals, if it can even be done for that matter.

[SMZ]

currently I think the Council of Merchants and Assemblage are being dealt with as an automatic ancillary for the faction leader... in the case of Arad Doman the king is elected from a noble house based upon his house's prominence, his mercantile abilities aren't really a criteria involved... in fact it might be the opposite in some cases. After all the Council wouldn't want a king in control who is capable of eclipsing them and thus lessening their influence. They want him to have to rely on them.

There's a case for that in Illian I guess where all three powers are in constant struggle. I would assume, like you, that a king who didn't need the Assemblage's "advice" would be a happy king... but that seems a random personal trait - king's ascend the throne based upon heridatry claims first and personal ability only comes into play when such claims are muddled.

Tarabon has an Assembly also, but it is noted that it is virtually powerless and events in the novels bear this out.

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It is my understanding that we will be able to have female family members. This is particularly important for Andor of course. However I don't think it will be a case of both being available at the same time. A faction will either have female family members or male, not both. Many nations in WoT of course can have either male or female rulers, but I don't think we can implement this, so we've just picked some to be one way and vice versa. At present the suggestions for female kingdoms are:

Andor - always female
Tar Valon - always female
Altara - either/or but the nation has a matriarchal society
Ghealdean - either/or but it seems to fit (of the last five rulers, four were women I believe)
Saldea - either/or but the Saldean women are quite famous
Seanchan - either/or but at present we have an Empress, a Daughter of the Nine Moons, and a female Leader of the Hailene... so it seems to fit

depending upon the capability of adding additional factions post BI this may also include:

Atha'an Miere - always female
Tower in Exile - always female
Mayene - either/or but with Berelain on our minds it'd be hard to do anything else
Far Madding - either/or but they mention several influential female leaders and the current First Counsel is female

as far as a combat penalty... none is really neccessary or appropriate - after all the woman is only one of the members in her troop - the majority are male bodyguards - we'll can either assume for the purpous of humoring RTW's engine that the female family members have trained in war - a trained women is pretty much as effective as a trained man - we can see that from Elayne's bodyguard...

Otherwise you can go with the scenario that she has an assigned Captain to lead her troops for her... that is a common practice for noble ladies - and thus the "general" on the field would be her acting representative

I could make a post regarding what I currently have marked down regarding our decisions on these issues - but I believe Andreas was planning to shortly - either way I think some things are still open to discussion - you should see some info on these things in a day or two

[Andreas]

Currently only Andor and Tar Valon will be female. I might add one or two nations, but not more for the pre-rand campain... Seanchan will be female, And all except Mayene of those not added if we add them. And Senachans last male ruler were at that post over 1000 years ago, IIRC. Altaras rulers will be male, so will Saldeas... If I add one, that will be Ghealdan ATM.

And yes, I'm going over all info on everything we have, planing to give you a info page shortly...:)