"Roma sub Rosa"

**2faced** · 03-08-2005, 03:51

Has anyone here read any of the books from Stephen Saylor's series on Ancient Rome, "Roma sub Rosa?" I thought these mysteries very interesting and entertaining and after reading the first, Roman Blood, I found myself seeking out the remainder and reading them all. Any comments on them?

P.S. If you think they were terrible and would like to inform me just how bad they were, have no qualms about enlightening me.

**KukriKhan** · 03-08-2005, 04:30

I've always been a fan of alternate histories, spy novels, and political thrillers. S.Saylor delivers all that in most of his works.

His stories flow, and make sense, but aren't 'married' to the idea of historic authenticity. As long as I, the reader, understand that going in, his work is highly entertaining, IMO. Good reads for a weekend with no chores to do.

**Strategy** · 03-08-2005, 13:27

As Kubrikhan says. The first few stories follow very closely on certain of Cicero's speeches; so if you want to read the "real" background on them, get hold of the Penguins; Cicero - "Murder Trials", etc.

Alternative "whodunit" writers in the Roman world are:

Lindsey Davis (Marcus Didius Falco series)
- more "witty" than "gritty"; this is light humour compared to Saylor's more serious tales. Historical details are OK, but Saylor is slightly better. The tales are set in Caligula/Claudius's empire.

John Maddox Roberts (SPQR/Decius Caecilius Metellus series)
- More action-packed and fast-paced murder mysteries. Occasionally dodgy historical characterizations, and the historical detail definitely falls short of Saylor. Set in the same time period (i.e., Cicero/Pompey/Caesar).

David Wishart (Marcus Corvinus series)
- Very similar to the Didius Falco series, but set in the time period of Augustus. It tends to get rather anachronistic at times.

So far, Saylor's are the Roman mysteries that I have enjoyed most; it seems to me to be the ones that stick best to what I perceive life in the period was like (even if Gordianus's opinions are often a bit too "modern" - particular on the subject of slavery). At least in the early volumes, the world view was frequently quite gritty. Historical detail in Saylor's books is very good, IMO; he is open to interpreting details in alternative ways, but doesn't go overboard with it. Compared to the competition, he is far superior on the history.

**frogbeastegg** · 03-08-2005, 13:45

I'm reading the series right now. I'm a picky reader because I write myself, but this series is one I enjoy. Saylor is very good. He does make mistakes; he famously gave the Mediterranean sea a tide.

I'd also second the recommendation for Lindsay Davis, although I find the first half of her Falco series better than her second due to a very few very minor little details which are more background setting than anything else. Falco's life has gotten too settled, secure and happy, and it does not feel right to me. I'd say the series really needs reading in order, just like Saylor's.

John Maddox Roberts I have also read. He's alright, but I prefer Saylor and Davis. He is what I call 'fluff'; a light read which I finish in a couple of hours.

**TonyJ** · 03-08-2005, 13:49

I haven't read these books, or seen them either - sounds like I may have a new few books to read !!

Has anyone here read the Master's of Rome Series by Colleen McCulloch ? I enjoyed them,I have to say. Anyone else ?

**SwordsMaster** · 03-08-2005, 15:02

he famously gave the Mediterranean sea a tide.

Actually it does have a tide. Not several feet as with the Atlantic, but it is still a tide. IIRC it is about 30 cm difference between hightest and lowest point. It is usually not noticeable because the weather is much more of a factor, but as it has connection with oceans, it does have a tide too.

I know for sure that the Azov sea doesnt have one

**nokhor** · 03-08-2005, 16:42

which way does the current flow between the mediterranean and the atlantic? i assume it flows from the atlantic into the med. is this correct?

**SwordsMaster** · 03-08-2005, 17:32

Originally Posted by nokhor

which way does the current flow between the mediterranean and the atlantic? i assume it flows from the atlantic into the med. is this correct?

Not exactly.

There is a continuous inflow of surface water from the Atlantic Ocean. After passing through the Straits of Gibraltar, the main body of the incoming surface water flows eastward along the north coast of Africa. This current is the most constant component of the circulation of the Mediterranean. It is most powerful in summer, when evaporation in the Mediterranean is at a maximum. This inflow of Atlantic water loses its strength as it proceeds eastward, but it is still recognizable as a surface movement in the Sicilian channel and even off the Levant coast.

This is the surface current. Into the Mediterranean

But:

In summer Mediterranean surface water becomes more saline through the intense evaporation, and, correspondingly, its density increases. It therefore sinks, and the excess of this denser bottom water emerges into the Atlantic Ocean over the sill forming the shallow Strait of Gibraltar as a westward subsurface current below the inward current. The inflowing water extends from the surface down to 230 or 260 feet. The Mediterranean has been metaphorically described as breathing, inhaling surface water from the Atlantic and exhaling deep water in a countercurrent below.

This is the deep sea current back into the Atlantic.

**frogbeastegg** · 03-08-2005, 18:55

Really? Now I shall have to pass that along to the person who first mentioned the tidal issue; he might find it interesting.

**Hosakawa Tito** · 03-09-2005, 03:40

Here's a link for the Med tides. http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/que...php?number=627

I have read all of Saylor's Roma sub Rosa books and enjoyed them. The ending to the last one "Caesar's Judgement" is a bit odd, but I don't wish to say anymore to avoid spoiling it for frogmeister.

**Wishazu** · 03-09-2005, 08:35

i think i might of missed it as i was away on holiday last week, but i saw an advert on TV over here in Britain for a program all about Cicero, i think it was a dramatization of one of his cases. If it has been on did anyone see it?