Buildings

[Ignoramus]

Not bad, but don't the buildings sound similar to Medieval?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I know it sucks. I am horrible at the names, but if anyone would like to assist with names that would be great. I could not think of too many original ones...

[Narayanese]

I don't like the tech tree. It wouldgive the same problems as in vanilla with most early units unavailible from start, and a weakened AI building only a few differnt low quality units.

A counterproposal (hastily put together):

Development line

Develpment 1 (name: Very Late Medieval)
20 turns, free, requres Marian reform, requires town exp 1
gives all pre-1480 units

Development 2 (name: Very Early Renaissance)
20 turns, free, requires town exp 2
gives all pre-1500 units

Development 3 (name: Early Renaissance)
20 turns, free, requires town exp 3
gives all pre-1522 units

Development 4 (name: Mid Renaissance)
25 turns, free, requires town exp 4
gives all pre-1550 units

Development 5 (name: Late Renaissance)
30 turns, free, requires town exp 5
gives all pre-1600 units


Town expansion line (Palace)

Town exp 1 (name: ?)
1 turn, quite cheap
gives all premarian units except cannons

Town exp 2
1 turn, quite cheap

Town exp 3
1 turn, medium cheap

Town exp 4
1 turn, medium cheap

Town exp 5
1 turn, medium cheap


Cannon factory line

Cannon factory 1 (name: Cannonmaker)
1 turn, expensive, requires town exp 3
gives the cannon units and the cannon ships (some of them also requires a development building)

Port line

Port 1 (name: Trading port)
1 turn, medium expensive
gives trade

Port 2 (name: Major port)
1 turn, very expensive
gives more trade


Temple types
1 building building-lines that makes towns different

Weaponsmith

Armoursmith

A few different monastery types

Some merchant guilds

The pope (in rome)

etc


Wall line

wall 1 (name: Low wall)
1 turn, expensive, requires town exp 2

Wall 2 (name: High wall)
1 turn, expensive, requires town exp 3

no barracks line
no stable line


Edit: I would be nice to have two types of building trees: one minimal and one complex (switch by replacing the file), as long as it doesn't interfere with unit balancing.

[GodsPetMonkey]

Now we are starting to go places… but here is what I was thinking… we do need to get away from the tier based on city size that we have in normal TW games.

My thinking is that city size should impact on the cities civic abilities (like trade, taxation, amenities, religious buildings, etc), but even small provincial cities would be able to supply men for service with recent technologies.

So lets break it up… here’s my idea!

City level buildings would be like in RTW, this is hardcoded, so we can’t do anything, though the population’s would be about 1/10th of what they are in reality (so 24,000 really represents 240,000)

Technological Advancement –
The idea behind these structures is the quantity of industry is not important as its quality… the ability to cast high quality cannon is not dependant on the number of casters in the city, but rather the capability of the workshops available. So, it is similar to Narayanese’s development line in that it allows for training tiers of units based on the timeline.

Manufacturing –
Most soldiers can’t provide their own armour and weapons from just the tools they have at home… the middle ages are over ;-).
My thinking about this line of buildings is whilst the technological buildings determine what can be built, these determine how fast they can be trained! Each level is tied to a cities tier.
As an example, the first level of a gunsmith may be “Firearm Importer”, he can import firearms from other cities (this is abstracted) but the amount that comes in is not rapid enough for the quick raising of large groups of gunners, so even the most basic of firearm units takes 1 or 2 turns. However, a higher up tier, say “Master gunshop” has a larger number of highly skilled gunsmiths, and is able to produce guns on a mass scale, meaning gun armed troops that have little training (so we are not talking janissaries here) can be done in 0 turns, with other units receiving a considerable reduction in training time.
Make sense? These buildings would be the ones that do the actual training (from the games point of view) but what can be trained will depend on what technological building is present.

Civic Buildings –
Finally there are civic buildings, like I listed above, this is all about advancing the cities. They would be tied with city tier, and larger cities would confer better benefits, like greater trade, or thanks to better governance, more tax. You get the general idea…
What would be really neat is if we could get it so certain cities focus on civic advancement (trade hubs, important places of culture, and thus cash making cities) and others on military advancements.

I'll work on actual build tree if you want.

[Narayanese]

For me, you're welcome to work on the tech tree.

On manufacturing buildings changing building times: I think this would require each building level to have it's own units with separate model and unit entry, and that would lower the unit limit a lot.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I like your idea Godspetmonkey. I am going to take a more in depth look into it to try to find building types and such.

[GodsPetMonkey]

For me, you're welcome to work on the tech tree.

On manufacturing buildings changing building times: I think this would require each building level to have it's own units with separate model and unit entry, and that would lower the unit limit a lot.

Yes, my bad, I thought there were training time modifiers, but there are only construction time modifiers.... se each level of unit would need a new entry in export_descr_unit.txt, and while we wont be using all 500 avialable slots, it's still not enough... oh well.


Still, it can be used for things like valour and weapons upgrades. My main point remains, a small city should be as capable of providing men for duty as say provisionatis (of any type) as a large one.... It also means AI armies consisting of largely militia class units are going to be much rarer.

Not all units should be buildable at baser levels though, mostly for balance reasons...

[Narayanese]

Not all units should be buildable at baser levels though, mostly for balance reasons...

But it hasn't to be like vanilla with militia early and regular units late.
We could for example have good quality militia, and royal regiments, restricted to cities with good infrastructure.

[GodsPetMonkey]

But it hasn't to be like vanilla with militia early and regular units late.
We could for example have good quality militia, and royal regiments, restricted to cities with good infrastructure.

My thinking precisely!

The best of the best should not be buildable from the outset (for instance, the best armoured knights should require the best armourers). But the backbone of the army of that period should not be restricted to the biggest cities... though it should make more sense to train them there (valour, weapon, armour and morale upgrades, granted from different buildings only available to higher tier cities).

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Good points guys. As well as the best armored knights and other elite nobels I think the Janissaries should require more due to their position as the elite of the Ottoman army. I will be starting to do a LOT of work on this after the 21st when school ends.