The people have spoken - ENGLAND wanted a Tory Govt

[71-hour Ahmed]

If you are going to make the old South East England argument, then I suggest you look at the situation in much of England. How much of it is net recievers/donators? Why not split England if that is your attitude? Theres more than what money goes in and out of regions that matters.

Moreover, agricultural and rural areas tend to be negatives net due to the smaller populations, lower wages, circumstances and higher provision cost for services. And guess what much of Scotland and Wales is?

[lancelot]

.And in a PR system extremist parties like the BNP, the Cornwall Independence Party and the Official Monster Raving Looney Party will get more seats. Personally I would much prefer the first past the post system and no fascists within 5 miles of Parliament.

Isnt that the price of democracy?


Or is it the 'democracy of the few'? Which to me, doesnt sound like democracy at all...

And regardless of preference, it seems that in this election, a majority of the people wanted option A, yet are now being governed by option B on little more than a technicality...

Its actually more disturbing the more I think about it....we have a party in power who a minority voted for....

Democracy anyone??? Hello...?

[zelda12]

Well if you take it even further you realize that the Tories only won vote wise by 60,000 people, thats about 0.6% of 1 seat. So in actual fact we would have a Hung Parliment, which would cause the Labour and Lib Dems to form a Coalition against the Tories. Never forget that the Lib Dems and Labour may dislike each other but they both hate the Tories with a passion.

And I sometimes do think that Democracy in its current form is a bit unwieldy, but then again the other options are a lot worse. So I suppose what we have to do is make sure the people understand what it is the BNP really stand for. Unfortunately none of the major parties have stood up and smelled the shit heap piling up under their feet. Even if Jack Straw did have a go at the BNP candidate in his seat when he made his acceptance speech.

[LittleGrizzly]

Even if Jack Straw did have a go at the BNP candidate in his seat when he made his acceptance speech.

I think there were 1 or 2 putdowns from winning mp's such as thanking everyone bar the BNP

[zelda12]

Aye, pity the main party policy's don't involve telling the truth about the BNP. Its a shame really, they've gotten so good at slinging mud at each other you'd think they'd have the skill to bury the BNP by now.

[English assassin]

The Tories have no natural allies: they would need 50% of the vote to get into government, and that's not likely to happen any time soon. A PR system would probably ensure a Lib/Lab coalition for some time to come, freezing out the Tories completely.

Not at all true. One thing Blair has shown is the majority in this country is centre right. Not only are their allies in the right wing of the labour paty but there is a huge tranche of votes to be had. of course the party would have to adapt and its probably too stupid to do so but in principle PR would be fine for the tories.

I object to PR because of the power it gives to the party machines, but the Billy Bragg solution seems very sensible to me (HoC on first past the post, second chamber proportional to the national totals of votes cast in the first past the post election)

Shambles no disrespect mate but you are talking out of your leak pie if you think the Welsh are subsidising English hospitals. I give you the Public Expenditure Statistical Analysis 2005. http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/...5_chapter8.pdf

You will note that per capita spending for 04-05 is £6391 in England, and £7312 in Wales. (£7786 in Scotland and £8566 in NI) (indexed, that's 97 for England and 111 for wales). Also that the South east is the region that loses out almost the most. I can't be bothered to look out the tax figures but I think we can safely assume the tax take in Wales is a leetle bit less than in London and the South east, giving Wales a douible benefit.

None of which I object to until I hear some bloody Plaid Cymru type spouting lies in the hope of a vote.

Oh, and could you explain for me the difference between the two statements "I won't sell him a house he's English" and "I won't sell him a house he's black"? Just curious to know when racism was cool in Wales.

[zelda12]

Its not racism its nationalism. The Welsh hate the English the Scottish hate the English and the Irish hate the English. And the English hate the French. Its been going on so long now that its become part of each nations psyche. This is coming from a man whos ancestors moved to scotland from Ireland then my mum married a Londoner...sometimes I don't know what to do, one minute I'm hating the French and the Tories the next I'm hating myself.

[LittleGrizzly]

None of which I object to until I hear some bloody Plaid Cymru type spouting lies in the hope of a vote.

Don't worry PC lost a seat this year and missed out on thier biggest target seat, only 3 PC MP's, the tide of nationalism seems to be turning in wales.

[English assassin]

Its not racism its nationalism. The Welsh hate the English the Scottish hate the English and the Irish hate the English. And the English hate the French. Its been going on so long now that its become part of each nations psyche. This is coming from a man whos ancestors moved to scotland from Ireland then my mum married a Londoner...sometimes I don't know what to do, one minute I'm hating the French and the Tories the next I'm hating myself.

Well its bloody childish. I don't mind a bit of leg pulling over rugby or football when the home nations play each other, but all this "It only rains so much in Wales because of the bastard English" gets my goat.

I remember once staying in a bothy under Ben Alder (Ben Alder is a mountain not a rugby player and a bothy is a mountain shelter, before anyone gets any funny ideas), and the entry in the log for a few weeks previously when England had been playing some random team in, I think, a European championship qualifier, was "Come on [Austria/Slovenia/whoever], beat those bloody English."

I mean, its nice to think England is so important to these people, but honestly, get the chip off your shoulder and get a life.

The only people who have the right to hate the English would be the Irish, although even there I would hope they would realise the people resoponsuible for selling the grain in the potato famine, or the black and tans, are not around any more and let it go a bit.

[Al Khalifah]

The only people who have the right to hate the English would be the Irish, although even there I would hope they would realise the people resoponsuible for selling the grain in the potato famine, or the black and tans, are not around any more and let it go a bit.

No national/racial/ethnic/relgious group has the right to hate any other national/racial/ethnic/relgious group, without excuses. It's all OK saying the Irish have the right to hate the English, but then the English could argue they have the right to hate Ireland because of the IRA's activities in the late 20th Century, but then Ireland could argue Bloody Sunday, but England could argue....

It just goes on and never stops. No one is above blame at some point. The English have been subject to just as many injustices and attrocities (both attempted and actual) as any other people if you look at the whole picture of history. Get over it. Personally I don't see why people get so worked up over this obselete idea of a nation anymore anyway. The days of the nation state are dying in Europe and like it or not thats the way its going/got to be in the age of multinationalism.

[zelda12]

I was joking, hence the number if smilies I put into my post. But I agree with Al Khalifah, nationalism is dieing in Europe and a lot of the more conservative people are scared shitless of this hence nationalist parties are popping up everywhere. Hopfully they'll fail.

[English assassin]

Well I hope you are right, personally I don't see people adopting a biog cuddly inclusive identity I see them adopting smaller and smaller identities, driven along by people who peddle division in the name of empowerment so that they, the peddlars, have a power base (eg the racial politics in Bethnal Green and Bow). I blame the left I am afraid, for years its been very handy for them to have communities of people feeling hard done by, well now it may bite us all in the bum.

The Ottomans and the Austro-Hungarians tried these pan-national structures and in the end nationalism took its chance and blew them each apart.

I did realise you weren't supporting those views yourself though.

[zelda12]

Aye, sooner or later though the nationalist parties in the Uk are going to destroy themselves, Britain has gotten to cosmopolitan for them to succeed. There's too much racial and eithnic diversity in the country and for that I am very, very happy.

[Adrian II]

Well I hope you are right, personally I don't see people adopting a biog cuddly inclusive identity I see them adopting smaller and smaller identities, driven along by people who peddle division in the name of empowerment so that they, the peddlars, have a power base (eg the racial politics in Bethnal Green and Bow).

Well said!

I blame the left I am afraid (..)

Go right ahead, but I blame German Romanticism, and Herder most of all. The idiots had to go and spoil a perfect victory of Reason over Obscurantism throughout Europe. Napoleon should have had them all shot when he had the chance. Hegel, Schlegel, the whole bloody lot of them.