Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 171

Thread: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

  1. #61
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    your eqauting european economies with the north korean one ? nationalising some industries doesn't equate to communism...
    No he was equating N Koreas economy to S Koreas.

    i would say its more important to have direct control over certian areas.
    We all do. The question is by who. This is what seperates conservatives from liberals.

    could the goverment do the same ?
    Maybe but its unlikely. It certainly isnt the norm. THe governemt doesnt work for its money nor is it very accountable for it. They make nothing.

    well in the case of things like oil i think its an important resource so it should be controlled for the benefit of the country
    Controled in What manner? Most oil is imported into countries. Should we control Iraqs oil for the benefit of US citizens? Should the US government control our own oil fields? I certainly hope that day never arrives.

    i think we disagree on that.
    We sure do but history does not. Free enterprise and capitalism work the best combined with democracy.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  2. #62
    Evil Sadist Member discovery1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Urbana, IL
    Posts
    2,551

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Cuba stuff Socked by the health data, not that numbers of beds per thousands matter if those beds aren't cleaned often. Not they aren't just that these numbers may not tell all.

    1. Cubans spend less time at school. Just 81% of the potential population is enrolled in secondary school — compared to 97% in the United States. Enrollment in "tertiary" institutions like colleges and universities is just 15% of the rate in the United States.

    2. However, the literacy rate in Cuba is only one percent lower than in the United States. And even though Cuba is a much poorer country, classes are smaller.

    3. On average, there are four to five fewer pupils per teacher in both primary and secondary schools in Cuba.

    Ok, nearly as good as us. Fail miserably at higher education. Big surprise right?

    Things are more equal how? There's less of a deviation in average income per household? Fine.
    That's what I was thinking of. And yeah, the higer ups probably do have much better standard of living relative to most of the people.

    Everyone has access to 'free' healthcare.... okay, so if the government tells me to come back in 2 years to have my throat tumor removed, but they'll pay for it, I should be grateful?
    everyone has access to 'free' healthcare(nevermind relative quality and that the good stuff I believe can't be bought at government pharmacies)

    I don't know. Probably not considering the situation presented.
    Last edited by discovery1; 05-10-2005 at 03:53.


    GoreBag: Oh, Prole, you're a nerd's wet dream.

  3. #63
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    7,588

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Even assuming your data is correct, I think it goes more to proving our point that things aren't all that nice in Cuba then towards yours that things are as good if not better.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  4. #64
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,334

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Communism=good
    Consevativism=bad

    That's what I learned from all of this.

  5. #65
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    That's what I learned from all of this.
    Well looks like you will be repeating this grade again next year then
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  6. #66
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Posts
    3,029

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    This Chavez dude doesn't seem very nice.....

  7. #67
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    7,588

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Now come on Gawain. You can't blame the kid, he's never earned a paycheck. Nobody can be a conservative while other people are paying their way. That's what makes them socialists.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  8. #68
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,334

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Well looks like you will be repeating this grade again next year then
    Depending on who the teacher is. I'm sure uncle Stalin would give me 100%

  9. #69
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    7,588

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Quote Originally Posted by bmolsson
    This Chavez dude doesn't seem very nice.....
    You LIAR
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  10. #70
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    7,588

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    Depending on who the teacher is. I'm sure uncle Stalin would give me 100%
    Here's what I don't understand BP. Why do you and Jag and all the other good socialists waste your time hanging around evil corrupt capitalist regimes. Instead of shooting your mouth off, why don't you join the people in Cuba or North Korea or Venezuela? Afraid we might be right???
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 05-10-2005 at 04:05.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  11. #71
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    London, England.
    Posts
    11,058

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Presented with a source, you dismiss its credibility because you can't dismiss what it shows. It is great.

    And I live where I live, I want to change my system, not leave and abandon my fellow workers in the UK, what good does that solve? Plus it is not piratical at this point in time.

    For all the crocodile tears you shed Don, you certainly throw the abuse around like anyone else.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  12. #72
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    you dismiss its credibility because you can't dismiss what it shows.
    What does it show other than if you have the power you can rob from the rich and give it to the poor and a whole bunch to yourself while your at it.

    And I live where I live, I want to change my system, not leave and abandon my fellow workers in the UK, what good does that solve?
    It gets you to live in a country where they have a system you say you approve of. I thing the Commonwealth will get along without you. Heck move to Cuba and become rich, famous and powerful and then return to England to clean up the stinking capitalistic mess .

    Plus it is not piratical at this point in time.
    No one is asking you to becaome a pirate

    Hey we will take up a collection for you to go there. You can take advantage of their free eductaion system over there and give your mom one less mouth to feed.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  13. #73
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    London, England.
    Posts
    11,058

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Next time I will make sure I make a point of commenting on all your typos

    The UK is moving into a more social democratic phase year by year, it is taking a horribly long time but still the majority of people still support a Labour govt which advocates and puts into practice active redistribution of money to the poor and a welfare state geared for the poorer over others. We are getting there.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  14. #74
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Next time I will make sure I make a point of commenting on all your typos

    The UK is moving into a more social democratic phase year by year, it is taking a horribly long time but still the majority of people still support a Labour govt which advocates and puts into practice active redistribution of money to the poor and a welfare state geared for the poorer over others. We are getting there.
    And now talk about the if there is a coresponding increase in crime, social unhappiness, and education levels. From what I read of Britian's overall status - it does not seem all that favorable toward the socialist utopia that you are wanting to get to.

    Same thing in Venezula - while they are most likely better off as a group then they were under the right wing thugs that Chavez replaced - however remember he got his raise to fame from an aborted and failed military coup where he attempted to take over the government.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  15. #75
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Next time I will make sure I make a point of commenting on all your typos
    Be careful because if theres anyone here who can equal or top me in typos its yourself. Or how about statements like this

    what good does that solve
    What kind of question is that? How do you solve good? That aint no typo my friend If your speaking of my pirate remark lighten up its a joke. Come on I never heard anyone say piratical before. Doesnt it sound like acting like a pirate You know like how Tyranical is acting like a tyrant.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  16. #76
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Posts
    3,029

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    You LIAR

  17. #77
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    7,588

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Presented with a source, you dismiss its credibility because you can't dismiss what it shows. It is great.
    Not quite sure what you're referring to here. I said that the numbers Discovery posted don't instill a burning desire to move to Cuba in me.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    And I live where I live, I want to change my system, not leave and abandon my fellow workers in the UK, what good does that solve? Plus it is not piratical at this point in time.
    Aah yes. No point in moving to Cuba and sponging off of those who have none. Better to be in a system of income redistribution where you have none, but somebody else does.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    For all the crocodile tears you shed Don, you certainly throw the abuse around like anyone else.
    Not sure what you mean here either. I haven't thrown any baseless accusations your way chief. Sure, I got a little sore when you called me a liar, but I'm over that. Tell you what. I work for a living, you're a good socialist, how about if I buy you a beer. You can even claim the system is working towards you're masterful goals, if it'll make you feel better.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  18. #78
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Posts
    3,029

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Just for the record, I do believe that the choice of being treated in Cuba or in US should be based on your access to major credit cards and bank balance. US is better than Cuba as long as you got the money. I got that so I would chose US......

  19. #79
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Just for the record, I do believe that the choice of being treated in Cuba or in US should be based on your access to major credit cards and bank balance. US is better than Cuba as long as you got the money. I got that so I would chose US.....
    Well you couldnt be more wrong. You could be an illegal alien here and recieve better treatment here than Castro himself probably gets in cuba and not pay a cent for it. The US is better than Cuba whether your rich here or poor. In fact our poor are probably better off as far as things like operations go than most rich people in Cuba if their are any that arent part of the government. You like many are cluless as to how we handle health issues here.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  20. #80
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Now you're saying Cuba's a paradise?!?! And just when I thought it couldn't get any crazier...

    Actually, this reminds me of a little anecdote I read about; 3 couples were eating dinner. One was Cuban. Another couple, after finding out they were Cuban, begin spouting praise for Fidel and saying what a wonderful country Cuba was, with such a good healthcare system, etc., etc. The Cubans looked at them, aghast, and asked incredously if they really believed all the propaganda Fidel printed. The liberals refused to be beaten by hard, solid facts from someone who had lived there and stammered on a bit about the high literacy rate until another person asked why the Cubans had left Cuba. They answered that they had been oppressed. The liberals finally shut up then.

    And JAG- all your articles claiming the Venzuelan poor are better off are based entirely on the claims on the dictator. One article even says that the fraudulent referendum that went entirely opposite of opinion polls was a real, solid election. How can you be so clearly ignorant of what is going on?

    And I live where I live, I want to change my system, not leave and abandon my fellow workers in the UK, what good does that solve? Plus it is not piratical at this point in time.
    'Fellow workers'?! LOL! Somehow, I think you have less in common with mine workers than latte drinkers. And besides- you don't need a computer. IF you really wanted to help the poor in England, you'd give up all your worldly possesions and travel around supporting socialist causes, instead of arguing that Chavez is a nice guy with people who obviously are much more aware of the world than you.

    The UK is moving into a more social democratic phase year by year, it is taking a horribly long time but still the majority of people still support a Labour govt which advocates and puts into practice active redistribution of money to the poor and a welfare state geared for the poorer over others. We are getting there.
    The majority in the UK, but not in England. And by what right does the government have to take money from people who have worked hard to earn it and give it to lazy bums who won't get off their fat butts and work? Are the poor more deserving of wealth because they contribute nothing?

    How can you expect to have an economy that grows if you take money from people who work and create and give it to those who are nothing but parasites? What makes you think people will work hard if everything they don't need to live on is taken away?

    And what, in absence of the free market, would a socialist use to determine the value of goods? And what of the other failures of nationalization that I mentioned earlier - that the gov't has no incentive to improve, that there is no accountability?

    Whether you like it or not, in capitalism businessmen strive to produce the best product for the best price because if they don't, someone else will, and they will go out of business. Communism entails no such product controls.

    Furthermore, how can you call opinions and predictions 'lies'? That's some of the stupidest stuff I've ever read.

    Crazed Rabbit
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  21. #81
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Posts
    3,029

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Well you couldnt be more wrong. You could be an illegal alien here and recieve better treatment here than Castro himself probably gets in cuba and not pay a cent for it. The US is better than Cuba whether your rich here or poor. In fact our poor are probably better off as far as things like operations go than most rich people in Cuba if their are any that arent part of the government. You like many are cluless as to how we handle health issues here.
    You are probably right...


    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    You like many are cluless as to how we handle health issues here.
    You put the poor and sick in special work camps where "Work makes health" is used as a slogan ??

    Note: Sarcasm

  22. #82
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    You put the poor and sick in special work camps where "Work makes health" is used as a slogan ??
    No we dont!!!!!!!! We use them for medical research and experiments.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  23. #83
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,334

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Both communism and capitalism have their shit.

    Think about all the corruptability of communism. Sure one could argue that that was the people's prior metality was backward, but how does one brainwash all this off the people's minds? Maybe in the future something could be invented to make this mass brainwashing canpaign possible but for now a good communist state is only as great as it's leaders.

    Think about Capitalism. Sure it seems like democracy flourishes and everyone get's out of life as much as he puts in but is that a reality, NO! In fact Democracy is impossible as long and one person can afford more political power then the other. Indiscriminant corruptability would also be rampant. Also do the people that work hard actually have a better living? NO! You could work in a coal mine all your life and be the best worker of the world and still become a bankrupt 60 year old with no money to even buy food. You'll say maybe he should have studied harder at school, welll maybe he couldn't because his parents were already to poor to afford the time of study and school. Also going to college costs a fortune(literally) especially in the US. So in fact Capitalism is completely messed up just as much as the next ideology.

  24. #84
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    You could work in a coal mine all your life and be the best worker of the world and still become a bankrupt 60 year old with no money to even buy food.
    You could but its highly unlikely. Chances are in a communist country though is that he will be paid the same as the worst worker.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  25. #85
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,334

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Well there's problems with communism, I am not pretending that the history of it is perfect. If I was the leader I would definetly make it so people who don't work as hard should be executed. That will motivate people .

  26. #86
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    So you are saying that the only way to make people work in a communist system would not be enticing them with rewards for hard work, but the threat of death hanging over them? Souds like a return to the hunter-gatherer days of human kind.

    Socialism and Communism are attempts to rob the mind. Workers who don't have the brains necessary to run a railroad demand the railroad be nationalized, so they can reap the benefits of another person's mind. And when anything that people think up will just be stolen by the state...they won't think anything up.

    Crazed Rabbit
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  27. #87
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,902

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Two comments on Cuba.

    A. Isn't it better to try to compare Castro's Cuba to Batista's Cuba? How many countries have wastly improved thier economy since the late 50-ties? (I'm not saying that Cuba has done it)

    B. If I got my history right (not certain in this case), didn't Cuba go close with the Soviets after the harsh response by the US? What would have happened if the US had been nicer to Castro?
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

    Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
    Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
    TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED

  28. #88
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    A. Isn't it better to try to compare Castro's Cuba to Batista's Cuba? How many countries have wastly improved thier economy since the late 50-ties? (I'm not saying that Cuba has done it)
    Well people were still driving 1958 chevys under him as they are today but theres not as many of them

    Fidel Batista!
    by Lawrence Solomon

    National Post
    January 25, 2003

    Third in a series: Though he was corrupt, Batista made Cuba into an economic powerhouse with a thriving free press. In the hands of Fidel Castro, the island's economy, and the voice of the people, have both been throttled
    An illustration of Fidel Castro and Fulgencio Batista holding hands in the air.

    Over at the Museo de la Revolucion, Fidel Castro's case against the dictator he overthrew 44 years ago is vividly on display.

    Fulgencio Batista was evil incarnate, the museum earnestly instructs visitors in room after room of the once-magnificent building, formerly a presidential palace built in 1920 and decorated by Tiffany's of New York. Under Batista and his predecessors, we learn through photos and text, Cuba became a playground for crass tourists who came for sex, drink and gambling, and who crowded the country's pristine beaches to the detriment of ordinary folk. To drive home the immorality of pre-socialist times, the museum displays an original National Lottery of Cuba ticket from early in the century, a symbol of the country's fall from grace.

    We learn that Batista was an illegitimate leader, the election he won stolen by manipulating the press. Worse, Batista intimidated, even jailed or killed, political opponents.

    But Batista also failed Cuba by failing to invest government funds wisely. One damning display berates Batista's priorities with a list of budget line items that show government expenditures on frills such as roads, promenades and buildings. Batista's sky-high spending on telecommunications -- which the display dubs as military -- comes in for criticism. Another display lambastes Batista for failing to diversify the economy. Another still, which provides a year-by-year report of sugar output, accuses Batista of ne-glecting this all-important industry. The numbers show a downward trend, interrupted with some up-ticks, in the 1950s, and then a giant leap forward, as Castro mobilized the country to produce more sugar in one of his regime's grand economic plans.

    The moral and economic rot under Batista led to humiliation and human tragedy, the museum tells us. "Many women who were denied jobs saw themselves forced to become prostitutes in order to survive," said one display. Said another: "According to a census in 1953, there were 200,000 shacks and misery huts." Said a third, also referring to the 1953 census: "40,939 people died due to lack of medical attendance and unsanitary living conditions."

    The history the museum imparts is part truth, part fiction and all hypocrisy. Batista was indeed an unsavory character. He did oversee a corrupt administration in Cuba. He did undermine the halting democracy that the United States helped create after liberating Cuba from oppressive Spanish occupation at the turn of the century.

    But Cuba and its U.S.-style constitution was also an economic powerhouse with potent social institutions and impressive accomplishments. A 1958 United Nations report ranked Cuba's vibrant free press eighth in the world, and first in Latin America. Despite its much smaller population, Cuba had 160 radio stations compared to the U.K.'s 62 and France's 50. It had 23 television stations compared to Mexico's 12 and Venezuela's 10. The tiny country supported 58 newspapers, fourth in Latin America behind populous Mexico, Brazil and Argentina.

    Cuba once installed telephones at a rapid rate. No more. It once ranked first in Latin America, fifth in the world, in television sets per capita, and also ranked high in radios, automobiles, and many other consumer goods. No more. With the population increased and the housing stock degraded, more people suffer inadequate housing today than ever before, and sanitary conditions have become a scandal through much of the country.

    The information-hungry populace in the Batista era was well-educated, as it remains. Student registration at primary schools in 1955 was 1,032 students per 10,000 inhabitants, higher than the figures for 1990 of 842. The registration rate for higher education was an impressive 38 per 10,000, about the same as it was 10 years later (34 per 10,000) and 15 years later (41 per 10,000). The country, in fact, had a long history of high literacy levels: At the turn of the 20th century, only 28% of those 10 and over couldn't read or write, not that different from the cur-rent figure, 100 years later, of 16%.

    But unlike today, Cuba's economy under Batista was powerful, both domestically and in exports, and it was becoming increasingly diversified. Under Castro, its economy is in tatters, nowhere more so than in the sugar industry that Castro once promoted so heavily. Last summer, Castro announced a shut down of half of the country's sugar mills. "We had to act or face ruin," he explained. As he told NBC News just this week. "It cost us more to produce sugar than what we could sell it for."

    But if Batista bested Castro in virtually every broad socio-economic indicator, he paled in comparison when it came to controlling either the electoral process or the populace. Castro executed thousands of political opponents after he came to power, imprisoned tens of thousands and caused hundreds of thousands to flee to exile. Where Batista won a disputed election, a Castro election leaves no room for dispute: Castro allows no opponents, no opposing viewpoints to appear in the press, and, because that might not be enough, his political machine ensures a good turnout by keeping tabs on who votes and who doesn't: In last Sunday's national election, Castro managed a 90%-plus "yes" vote, not quite as impressive as Saddam Hussein's 100% but, among dic-tators, respectable enough.

    Those who revile Batista often point to a decadent economy that relied on mafia-run casinos, prostitution and other demeaning jobs servicing tourists. Tourism was important under Batista -- Havana was an east-coast alternative to Las Vegas, complete with the sex and gaming, and the same mafia owners -- but never as important as tourism has become today. but never as important as tourism has become today.

    Cuba's once diversified economy is gone and Castro is now putting all of his hopes in attracting tourists.

    To do this, Castro's Cuba now permits prostitution, it winks at sex tourism -- tourist guide books even include sections on the country's once-taboo gay and bisexual scenes -- and, as under Batista, the country unabashedly invests heavily in tourism. Earlier this week, Castro inaugurated a US$100-million resort on the island's northeastern coast, broadcast nation-wide, to underscore the importance the government places on the new five-hotel complex of 944 rooms able to house 1,500 tourists.

    Tourism is now Cuba's No. 1 source of foreign income, with 1.6 million visitors generating about US$2-billion last year. More tourists come from Canada than from other important sources of foreign exchange, chiefly Germany, Britain, Italy, France, and Switzerland. Castro, like Batista, is eyeing one other important tourist market.

    "Our friends from the north are not in this list," Castro said with a grin, referring to Americans that can't travel to Cuba due to U.S. government regulations.

    Some day soon, perhaps, Castro's dream may be realized, and Cuba's economy may once again benefit from U.S. tourism. If it does, Cuba under Castro will have recovered one of the benefits that the country once enjoyed. Forty-four years into the Revolution, Castro will have achieved all the failings, real and perceived, that Cuba had under Batista, and it will have retained few of the virtues.
    B. If I got my history right (not certain in this case), didn't Cuba go close with the Soviets after the harsh response by the US? What would have happened if the US had been nicer to Castro?
    I dont think Castro ever had any intentions of being friends with the US other than to get Americans to visit there. Im pretty sure he blamed us for his countries problems from day one.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  29. #89
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,902

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    I dont think Castro ever had any intentions of being friends with the US other than to get Americans to visit there. Im pretty sure he blamed us for his countries problems from day one.
    Well a constant embargo in more than 40 years would annoy some people.

    I don't suspect that he would like America, but would he let the Soviets place nukes on Cuba 1962 for example with better relations with the US? Pure speculations though.

    And that article smells fishy in some instances:

    He did undermine the halting democracy that the United States helped create after liberating Cuba from oppressive Spanish occupation at the turn of the century.
    1898-1902 Cuba: US occupation following Spanish-American War

    Cuba: US military ran the government from 1906 to 1909; occupied by US troops in 1912, and 1917 to 1922

    On a simular note. Is this a sign on what to come in Iraq? Because according to him it is.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

    Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
    Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
    TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED

  30. #90
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    7,588

    Default Re: Venezuela's Chavez accuses oil companies of massive tax evasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside
    Well a constant embargo in more than 40 years would annoy some people.
    I never realized Castro was such a brilliant prognositcator. He knew in 1959, when he assumed power that the US was going to embargo him for the next 46 years and that's why he siezed American assets? Bloody brilliant! One silly question... if he can see 46 years into the future, why couldn't he have taken the necessary steps to see to it that his people have adequate healthcare, food, jobs and why does he still have to toss dissenters into jail to be tortured? In 46 years, with all the answers, couldn't he come up with something more original? More effective?
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO